SyntaxBomb - Indie Coders

I just downloaded the latest release 1.107 (September 14 2017). A bit complex 2D game (Pool Demo) is still slow on my quad core android device and a blank blue scene with text only (5-8 fps count) on Mojo3D android Ducks Demo (hey, it works now!). 

This is just my own honest findings, so your mileage may vary..

Pros:
- 2D/3D Good Performance (Desktop Windows/WebGL Emscripten)
- 3D Physics Good Performance (Desktop/WebGL)
- New Post Effects (Bloom?)
- Constant Updates

Cons:
- 2D/3D Poor Performance (Android)
- Unstable Lighting/Shadow Setup (CSM shadows reduced to Pointlight Shadows as of 1.107 Demos)
- Build times are now even longer (maybe it's the recommended NDK not sure, but not with 1.106)

I'd probably give it a couple of years or maybe even more to reach that overall 2D/3D performance, particularly on mobile. The reports posted here and from the old archive BB forums does seem true, android/mobile support is really really bad like that Problem Child movie. 

Good tool if you're going to use it for Desktop and WebGL, but might as well remove mobile support if it can't catch up with the other more favorable targets.

..and so can't say I did not try, need to give up now and going back to Monkey-X or perhaps start building my own.   

I had hopes and dreams on Mark but I'll pass for AGK and probably CerberusX.

Quote from: sphinx on September 16, 2017, 07:24:28
I had hopes and dreams on Mark but I'll pass for AGK and probably CerberusX.

I'm still using Monkey-X just for compatibility reasons and to try and build a simple 3D game, but yeah I agree that's a better choice.

Quote from: RonTek on September 16, 2017, 07:39:25

Quote from: sphinx on September 16, 2017, 07:24:28
I had hopes and dreams on Mark but I'll pass for AGK and probably CerberusX.

I'm still using Monkey-X just for compatibility reasons and to try and build a simple 3D game, but yeah I agree that's a better choice.

Use Cerberus X then, they have a 3D module :
https://www.cerberus-x.com/wordpress/news/vortex-2-released-3d-cerberus-x/

Quote from: sphinx on September 16, 2017, 07:52:38

Quote from: RonTek on September 16, 2017, 07:39:25

Quote from: sphinx on September 16, 2017, 07:24:28
I had hopes and dreams on Mark but I'll pass for AGK and probably CerberusX.

I'm still using Monkey-X just for compatibility reasons and to try and build a simple 3D game, but yeah I agree that's a better choice.

Use Cerberus X then, they have a 3D module :
https://www.cerberus-x.com/wordpress/news/vortex-2-released-3d-cerberus-x/

Yes, but apparently Vortex2 is broken on Android, no shader support as well atm.

http://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,3382.msg5754.html#msg5754

..Mark products after BB3D are wonderful unfinished concepts/ideas..if you are looking for development seriousy and to earn some cash, go elsewhere and pick some other tools....im very sorry to say this but its truth..

How does Revengestar play on your device, Ron? Plays fine on my Moto G5+.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.playniax.revengestar

Mark products after BB3D are wonderful unfinished concepts/ideas

I don't think so. BlitzMax is a wonderful and FINISHED product.
Monkey-X - in the concepct of use one source to compile on different target via a 'trans-compiler' - was/is a great solution (same logic behind BMX-NG indeed!)
The problem was that supporting too much targets, any with very specific features, is a giant and difficult problem.
Monkey2 started from here and overturn the problem.

Main problem with MonkeyX/Monkey2 is both are too much 'dev-designed'... you need to (manually) setup to many parameters (and in Monkey2 this is worst!) while world - even for developers - is moved with automatic/gui processes.

Quote from: degac on September 17, 2017, 08:07:30
Mark products after BB3D are wonderful unfinished concepts/ideas

I don't think so. BlitzMax is a wonderful and FINISHED product.
Monkey-X - in the concepct of use one source to compile on different target via a 'trans-compiler' - was/is a great solution (same logic behind BMX-NG indeed!)
The problem was that supporting too much targets, any with very specific features, is a giant and difficult problem.
Monkey2 started from here and overturn the problem.

Main problem with MonkeyX/Monkey2 is both are too much 'dev-designed'... you need to (manually) setup to many parameters (and in Monkey2 this is worst!) while world - even for developers - is moved with automatic/gui processes.

Couldn't agree more especially what you say about BlitzMax, and I think NG is the step Mark was supposed to take instead of making new products!

Just out of curiosity, what problem of monkey MX2 is trying to solve?

@Murumba

well, in one of his very few post Mark said that keep working/update every single features for any single target was a big headache at the end. Adding or removing some features could break things.
The work (for a single developer) was too big for a very low return.
So the decision to stop development for MonkeyX and try to restart with a mixed architecture between MonkeyX and BlitzMax: just a bunch of targets using proven/working/stable tools (like Emscripten - that handles many sub-target like wasm)

Quote from: degac on September 17, 2017, 15:44:27
@Murumba

well, in one of his very few post Mark said that keep working/update every single features for any single target was a big headache at the end. Adding or removing some features could break things.
The work (for a single developer) was too big for a very low return.
So the decision to stop development for MonkeyX and try to restart with a mixed architecture between MonkeyX and BlitzMax: just a bunch of targets using proven/working/stable tools (like Emscripten - that handles many sub-target like wasm)

Well, a very low return should have motivated Mark to enhance what is already a mine of gold and I mean BlitzMax or even Blitz3D especially with a large community!
He would have made tons of cash as the community was begging for enhancements!
If I were him I would do these enhancements if it breaks some things!

The irony is that the logic at the base of MonkeyX is now the back-end of BlitzMax NG..

At the time many users offered different 'strategies' to keep everything alive: from an annual fee (for BlitzMax) to keep up-to-date and maintained, to paid-module (the in-famous 3d engine, and now he's working on this for Monkey2... for free!) to enhance BlitzMax (BlitzNext?) to port to other targets (like BMX-NG at the end did).
People likes Unity-way? Ok, just make something (for BlitzMax) similar.
Plenty of ideas, surely not all good or with a chance of results, but (in my opionion) much better than give up.
Everything paid (and money is a need!), keeping together the community, making value of a story of decades of development and research.

Just to stress out the Mark's skills in marketing (I don't want to offend him - ok!)

For Monkey2 there are 2 paid modules: IAP and ADmobile, both available on Itch.io.
On the monkey2 forum (a simple wordpress theme, nothing absurd to manage) there's NO indication of these.
There's NO page (call it STORE maybe?) with 2 simple links to itch.io

These modules are NEEDED if you want to 'play' in the mobile market, and correctly, they are offered at a price. Good thing!
But having the goods and no promoting them is ... useless!

I still have no idea of how many people/devs knows about Monkey2 'outside' the ashes of BlitzBasic community.

Again: no personal rant for Mark Sibly, but I think that making the same error is no a good move!

QuoteAgain: no personal rant for Mark Sibly, but I think that making the same error is no a good move!

..i never looked this as a rant for Mark..after all, i have said many times very similar thing..and i can tell you this, i truly hope, i was wrong..unfortunately, sad truth is, guy has no marketing skills at all..many people at BB forum were far more advanced than him in marketing and generally sense for business...nobody was nagging about actual work he is good at, just some other things which he as not so good (im kind here), but he just didnt want to hear a word....either way, i hope things will work out well for him..who knows, maybe some other incarnation of BB will stand up....

Well ya. The 3 guys who accidentally stumble across Monkey 2 will think about what happened with Monkey 1 and... There is just no certainty no guarantee that this will live on. Monkey 2 IS definitely a nice language which I still patreon (even though I got banned there) but it's not for newcomers.

If one comes to that monkeycoder page, he will just scratch his head and move on.

Aside the name of that product:

1) co.nz domain, oh well, no https
2) the website... If it would be just retro it would be fine but that mix of a cms like Wordpress with a design which is ugly beyond imagination makes it odd -> It's like flirting. The first seconds make a difference. It's just awful.
3) non existing documentation

Plus you mentioned already that there are no links to paid modules. Nothing.

Then there is this lack of communication or it's just cluttered up in different sources:
a) In the forum he wrote he has to step back a bit due to personal reasons
b) On twitter he posted he was in a hospital
c) To Patreon supporters he wrote that things will slow down because money supply went down
d) His blog is another confusing source of input

It's just AMAZING how one guy could be SO talented and made SO many mistakes. For me the probability of such an awful combination of great coding skills and lack of product marketing and communication is incredibly low and yet - here it is.

edit: About rants: No worries about that. Mark won't read here. He even doesn't read his own forums - at least not all of it.