2-3 weeks for delivery /grumble.
Taps foot.
COME ON!!!
Can't wait to replace this iMac with the new one.
lol yes the great feeling you get when ordering new computer goodness...Then the (annoying) wait for it to arrive. Congrats.
That is a juicy Mac. :)
Quote from: Amon. on September 17, 2020, 09:35:05
That is a juicy Mac. :)
Would hope so for that <ouch> price. I've been dithering about getting another one for around six months now. Almost went the second-hand route a few times and thought I'd found the machine I was going to buy until a mate talked me out of getting a refurb and pointed out the differences in tech spec between a 2017 machine and just getting the most recent Apple machine with a bit more ram. As it is, I just added an extra 8GB but I'm thinking I might upgrade it again without killing the warranty. As it's got a USB-C port I could also stick a mental GFX card on it later on, if it does get a bit behind.
I was originally going to get this model second hand for exactly the same price:
Apple iMac with Retina 5K display - all-in-one - Core i7 4.2GHz - 64 GB - 1TB SSD - LED 27" - English - Gold Grade Refurbished
That looks tasty as well until you consider it's a 2017 model, so the SSD is probably a bit slow after all this time, and it's second-hand. The faster CPU doesn't mean anything when you consider it's a quad core. It has a AMD Radeon Pro 580 in it but that's well out of date compared to what the new beast has.
Yes looks really good, the SSD is a bit small though.
Quote from: Steve Elliott on September 17, 2020, 19:40:18
Yes looks really good, the SSD is a bit small though.
Yeah, I agree. And I almost put in another £400 to upgrade it to 1TB then thought maybe I can just be a bit better about handling all my stuff.
On this Mac, I have a 1TB fusion drive. There's currently 561GB of that available, and this has all my development stuff on it, all my music, and a lot of emulation files that I probably don't even need as I have retro-pi on a raspberry, if I want to tinker with that. I'm just going from memory as a quick browse shows I've also got a lot of pdf files of old magazines, back ups of stuff on the drive, which is pointless as if the drive failed then they're gone too, and all sorts of other things.
So, I have bit bucket for storing all my code. I'd keep local copies of stuff I'm actively tinkering with, but stuff like the huge resources folders that I might use one day, and code for languages I've not touched in years, etc. I've got a Qnap that I use as a media player with two 4TB drives in it so I can run Plex on the telly downstairs. I've still got shedloads of space on that so all my music and stuff can go on there. I keep a 2TB seagate drive on the Mac which I can use for installing stuff onto, and just keep basically the O/S and dev stuff that I want accessed quickly for compiling speed on the internal drive.
If it all goes according to plan then I shouldn't need anything else.
I totally understand, I've been juggling with all my drives recently and managed to spread data much more evenly - but still back up data in the process. In todays computing files are ridiculously massive so it's a real micro management job of ensuring you don't run out of storage - but also back-up your data too.
Nice, you'll love it ;D
When I opted for the Mac mini I went for the 1TB SSD and 16GB of RAM. I know I could have stripped it down and added RAM cheaper but as it's not super straight forward I thought sod it.
512GB SSD is easily enough and if needed you just shove data files on an external HDD ( or SSD for speed )
One thing that did really annoy me was how terrible the integrated GPU was for a 2020 ( 2018 really ) model and no option to opt for something better. So I bought an external GPU ( Blackmagic eGPU with a Radeon Pro 580 with 8GB of GDDR5 RAM ). It's nice and quiet and covers all my needs but bloody crazy expensive at £599 :o - Guess I can reuse it if / when I grab new Mac mini's.
I had no idea. An external GPU. Do they have those for windows?
Quote from: blinkok on September 18, 2020, 22:29:31
I had no idea. An external GPU. Do they have those for windows?
They do :) - They require a USB-C or Thunderbolt port and you can buy an enclosure and GPU of your choice. Mine is plugged into a Thunderbolt port which is faster than USB-C but I don't know if the eGPU would be just as fast via USB-C. Also keep in mind that with an eGPU you'll lose about 10%-15% performance compared to if the GPU was internal. Personally I've not seen any performance loss with anything I've tried but I think that applies when using the eGPU along with a laptops internal display. Luckily my setup goes from Mac mini > eGPU > Display port on the external monitor.
One more point is that overall an eGPU setup is big and expensive so if you have a desktop PC then just replace the internal GPU. Mind you, for the price you could build your own half decent gaming PC :))
Buddy of mine has a GPU on his Mac mini as he went a similar route to what you've done. If I'm able to do it for this iMac then that's a route I'm definitely going to take when I need to. The price I'm paying for this computer I really want 10 years out of it.
The other 27 inch iMac I had, which the missus now uses, is 10 years old now and still going strong. That's one of the things I love about these machines.
Delivery date Tues 29th September....
taps feet.
Can't wait...
That is a sweet rig. May I ask what are some of the advantages over a similarly priced PC?
Quote from: GfK on September 28, 2020, 12:40:46
Quote from: Ashmoor on September 28, 2020, 11:29:17
That is a sweet rig. May I ask what are some of the advantages over a similarly priced PC?
I am definitely all ears for this one.
Uh oh, here we go with the great PC vs Mac debate :))
From my point of view ( just a couple.... for now ) :
1.. Windows 10 is horrible, looks horrible and just feels wrong and unfinished. MacOS is a much better experience in stability, use-ability, security and no messing with drivers.
2.. Many PC's are huge and noisy whereas Mac's are mostly whisper quiet unless under really heavy CPU load but return to quiet once that task is over.
3.. PC's lose their value a lot quicker than Mac's.
4.. If you have other Apple devices then they all integrate with the Mac brilliantly.
Tiny list to begin with... Flame away boys, flame away :P
Build quality.
Reliability.
Better OS.
Longevity.
Low value depreciation.
Finally general preference.
I've done all my - many - years of owning a Windows machine and hardware being replaced every few months. I've got an iMac here that's over 10 years old now, and I got it second hand. The missus swears by it since I gave it to her and isn't even interested in inheriting this one as a replacement because it's a smaller screen.
You can all throw PC specs at me which will probably be much better on paper for a machine the same price but I'd still take the Mac each and every time. I'm not an apple-fan boy, I just appreciate good build quality and reliability. My current iPhone is 5 years old now and I've got no need to replace it because it still works as well as the day I bought it. Same for my 2015 iPad that I bought four years ago. Never reformatted or done anything else with it and it works as zippy now as it ever did and has zero issues.
To be honest, Apple make it easy for me to buy their stuff, even if it is more expensive. I've yet to have anything I've bought from them fail on me. I've had fucked PC's for decades prior to that.
@qube - I mean no hate. You guys are obviously smart people and there must be some reasons for your choices. I just recently purchased a second hand macbook and everything feels weird and backwards to me, especially the fact that even after a few months of usage I still feel like the hardware does not belong to me but is somehow rented from Apple. I love the retina display though and how well apps handle it. I am sure I don't have enough experience with macs to form an objective opinion which is why I ask long time mac users for the reasons behind choosing apple.
I agree that in some areas even my 2014 mac is faster than my main win machine. For example switching the desktop background, takes a few seconds and screen flickers on windows but on mac is instantly switched. Overall it just works. If I compare it to an older hardware win10 laptop, mac is way better optimized and more "usable" but falters under load.
"3.. PC's lose their value a lot quicker than Mac's."
Did you ever sell one of your old macs?
"4.. If you have other Apple devices then they all integrate with the Mac brilliantly."
I agree that it's nice to use iPad as drawing tablet for mac via blue tooth and expand screens. What else can you do? I could not find other interesting things online.
Streaming using OBS or even desktop recording is a pain on mac.
What do you do with the mac? Do you code, do you need it to make iOS apps? do you do photo/video editing?
@Xerra
"Build quality.
Reliability.
Better OS.
Longevity.
Low value depreciation."
These all sound like quality of life. I can appreciate that. I got my pc in 2016, still running strong but had to change the PSU since we have almost weekly power breakdowns where I live and it eventually failed. What do you use it for?
"I've yet to have anything I've bought from them fail on me. I've had fucked PC's for decades prior to that."
I am seriously impressed and can only attribute that to extreme care or great luck. I purchased my iPad in late 2019 and about 2 months ago it got stuck in headphone mode. I can't fix it, we have no Apple service in Romania and their online tech support told me to go back to my vendor, they must have service for it.
Thanks for the answers
I've resold old apple stuff and was amazed at how much they retain their value. Min 30% usually 50-70% even after 2-3 years. Keep all the packaging and you can get 80%. Keep it immaculate for lots of years and the cost goes up.
Pc stuff. Lost 3rd just by buying it. 1 year later... 50% if you are lucky. After that you are looking at what you can get.
£2700 laptop. 2 years later £90...
Bought my computer components 9 years ago for ... <400 eur. Placed in a 30eur SSD later on ... and a used 50 eur GTX 650 ti. Replaced my 19" screen with a 100 eur 24" screen 4 or 5 years ago.
Computer still works ... albeit 8gb RAM is no longer the best option, and the 4 cores AMD is not the fastest anymore.
But for the money I spent for the computer ... you would never have gotten this "performance per Euro" from apple stuff. And if you bought the Apple computer in 2011 - in almost any case you would not be able to develop stuff for new Mac OS X releases now.
I can still develop for Windows 10 and modern Linux distributions (yes, you can do that with your Mac too ... :)).
"£2700 laptop. 2 years later £90..."
I would not pay 2700 GBP for a laptop ... even 1000 Eur is ... dunno, laptops age so fast (Battery, display resolution, keyboard key prints fade out, ...). Still am using my 180eur HP Elitebook (spend 20 or so for an SSD). Does its job and has digitizer etc on board. Could surely still sell it for half of the buy price.
The higher the initial value the more (absolute) value you can loose.
I am with you that "oddly" used mac device prices are above "average" (not to say often rip offs :D). They seem to know that some dudes just buy such a device to do official builds of their apps for Mac OS X / iOS.
Regarding reliability: My dev computer only had a failed PSU 2 months ago ... with the old one running 9 years (think about 5 years active "24/7" time in total), replaced 2 or 3 usb mice (each 1-2 eur) and replaced 2 keyboards (my beloved cherry keyboards ...). Else my computers (laptop, dev computer -- even my old NAS) are running and running ... without overly disturbing OS hickups, flickering wallpaper changes, ...
But this is only my POV to it... if you are unsure each day on how to spend all this money laying around in your castle manor house ... then of course you could spend it on some more expensive stuff, maybe to save the tinker time you have with other solutions on Windows or Linux (setting up "share your private data with the cloud", how do I send data to my phone...).
bye
Ron
QuoteWindows 10 works very well, for me. YMMV, obvs.
I've tried Windows 10 many many times since it's release ( even the latest update ) and personally I just can't gel with it at all, no matter how many times I try to like it. I have a VM of Windows 10 for testing software but I use Windows 8.1 with Visual Studio for development as Windows 8.1 ( once you replace the tile start menu with Start8 ) I find vastly superior both aesthetically and general usability. Going back to MacOS it's a lot more stable and secure than Windows ( the classic argument ).
Quotemy PC is pretty quiet considering there are five 140mm fans running. Obvs things get noisier if everything's under load but it's built for speed, not silence.
Probably personal preference but five 140mm fans alone takes up nigh on the space of my Mac. I got fed up a long time ago having a breeze block for a PC and no matter how good of a quality the internal fans were they were never as quiet as any Mac I've owned, even under heavy prolonged stress. I dont' even know my Mac is on without either looking for the light or putting my ear to it to hear the fan.
QuoteBut with PCs, you can upgrade parts as you want/need to. From the CPU/GPU, right down to the hard drive (which is a two minute job). Come back to me once you've managed to remove your lovely 27" retina screen without cracking it, just to get at the hard drive.
Yes you can upgrade a PC far easier than a Mac. Mac's are terrible for upgrading and self repairing but touch wood, out of all the Macs I've had, not one has ever died on me. Probably just lucky in that respect as anything can break at anytime. I wouldn't need to remove the 27" retina screen as I have a Mac mini plugged into an external GPU and into a monitor \o/ - Actually I did upgrade an older 21" iMac to replace the internal drive with an SSD one and it's not something I'd like to repeat again, especially as the screen are now virtually spot welded on.
QuoteAnd so they bloody should for the price you pay! I don't have any significant problems integrating any of my devices across brands, from my Samsung A10 to my custom-built desktop PC, to my MSI laptop, to my Synology NAS, to my TV... everything works.
I just like the convenience of doing something on my phone / iPad and having it sync to my Mac. One silly thing I find useful is if I'm out an about I can jot things into notes and when I get home, turn on my Mac, the notes are waiting for me. Same with Safari bookmarks, etc.
Also if my phone isn't in front of me I can still receive phone calls and messages on any device I'm using. Another good thing is I can use my iPad Pro as a drawing tablet and a 2nd monitor at the click of a button. Another very handy feature is Time Machine which runs very efficiently in the background keeping backups of data and apps. Should I need to restore anything, for example a document or image I've saved over by accident or deleted etc, a quick visit into Time Machine, pick a day and time and restore that version. You can also use it to do a full system restore between Mac's if needed.
No drivers, no messing, familiarity between all devices and even better, my watch even tells me it's time to breathe :P - Actually talking of the Apple Watch, I love it!. Contactless payments, alerts, make phone calls ( finally I have the tech from Knight Rider ), use it for navigation with when getting lost in Belfast ( talking ).
QuoteDid you ever sell one of your old Macs?
I've sold all my older laptops and desktops and the worst return was 60% of the purchase price for ( at the time ) a four year old 13" MacBook Pro.
QuoteI agree that it's nice to use iPad as drawing tablet for mac via blue tooth and expand screens. What else can you do? I could not find other interesting things online.
I mentioned a couple of things above that I personally do extra with. One thing I do have fun with is when it's icy I sit on it and have the dogs pull me along at high speed, not a scratch on it ;D
QuoteStreaming using OBS or even desktop recording is a pain on mac.
Hmm, streaming I just use AirPlay as our Samsung TV supports it. For desktop recording I use Screenium 3 which I find works very flawlessly.
QuoteWhat do you do with the mac? Do you code, do you need it to make iOS apps? do you do photo/video editing?
Yes, yes and yes, lol. I also write music, slowly improve my 3D modelling skills and a lot of Remote Desktop support.
Having said all that I'm no Apple fanboy as once they don't do what I want or I'm fighting all the way to do things then off they go out the window at high speed.
QuoteI would not pay 2700 GBP for a laptop ... even 1000 Eur is ... dunno, laptops age so fast (Battery, display resolution, keyboard key prints fade out, ...).
It was a work thing, custom build with 3 day turn around. but it's a fair comparison. And it was the last straw that made me turn my back on windows. Pst. What I didn't tell you was this thing was BIG. like HUGE. like I got stuck in train barriers with it - much to others amusement!
I think you nailed something very interesting about pc vs macs - pc's are generally lower quality. keys fade, etc. Mac hardware is vastly superior. The specs might not be cutting edge, but they last. they age very well and the focus on design keeps them looking like what they are 'design classics'
As Qube said - once you have more than one device they all just talk. I loved my sony phone and my palm. but trying to sync them together - forget it. buy a new phone and the hassle of attempting to transfer data from the old to the new... Yep I know that has got better. but better is not good enough (in my book). I want it to work.
Another things that Fecking bugged me to heck was windows install and new os time. Upgrade, transfer old documents to new system - just let windows do it for you :) Bollocks - it's the best marketing lies i've ever come across.
windows just got bigger and longer to install even thought the hardware was faster - it NEVER made sense.
You want to upgrade a windows machine - average is 2 days. first to get it installed maybe an hour maybe 2. Then install old software - cause it never does it correctly. never brings all the settings, never gets the drivers right. never works out of the box.
<opens window and shouts 'crabapples' at those young whippersnappers>
I could go on (and on and on...). But I will end with a little tale:
Me other half (who has the hand-me-downs) had issues. solved them and even got superb help from Apple themselves, with personal callbacks, private tech support and more. And, can manage almost any situation the mac throws. Windows.... say no more!
Sort of 'Here's your Mac Steak sir. vs Windows burger. you want fries with it?"
I only have ... BlitzMax on my Windows Laptop ... and git/sync stuff. All the other things are done in Linux and there the settings are stored in my home folder / partition / drive. If I did a fresh install, all the programme configurations would be still there (can be good... or not good :D). Reinstall the programme (or use one of these "reinstall what was installed before") and it is already configured.
But OS discussion ... think we love our choices and dislike the ones of "other tastes" ... quite normal I think.
Personally I do not like MS/Apple/...cloud stuff. NAS + own cloud + the necessary "own" sync solutions.
bye
Ron
Can you fit a GeForce RTX 3080 in a Mac? End thread :P
(MacPro doesn't count: Tower from A$9,999.00 :o)
So, Mr Xerra, has your new baby arrived. :)
Quote from: Amon. on September 29, 2020, 10:18:04
So, Mr Xerra, has your new baby arrived. :)
Indeed she has. And the bitch is already stealing the show. It's fucking blistering working compared to the old one. I've attached a picture of her in all her glory.
To reinforce what Adam and Qube were saying in previous posts, I've never used Time Machine before but had an old PC hard drive I took out of my tower I had in the loft before I took it to the local dump. The PC died around 4 years ago - and wasn't much cop anyway. So I got a HD enclosure so I could use the drive as an external and had time machine up and running a couple of days ago just to synch up my other iMac onto the drive ready for when I replaced it. I literally plugged this one in, selected restore data when the new Mac asked me if I wanted to, selected the drive and an hour or so later it was done.
Everything I had on the other iMac was cloned over - not had to install shit, or copy over any files. It's just like I'm still on the old machine, if it wasn't running a bit quieter, so much more responsively and I didn't have a 27'inch screen instead. The only technical issue I had was finding out my old thunderbolt port adaptor for HDMI is no longer compatible so I needed to find a USB C to HDMI adapter to use the second monitor. Luckily my work laptop got replaced with one of those surface pro thingies and it's supplied with one of these leads to use it via HDMI, which I just threw in a drawer as I didn't need it.
So time to start using some of the stuff like Parallels which was always so chuggy on the old machine again. I wouldn't swap this iMac for any Windows PC you stuck in front of me.
Nice! Seems a shame your using a shitey £20 logitec keyboard and mouse with it (same as mine). ;D
Glad to hear it's all arrived and working great for you \o/ - Now stop admiring the speed and get coding your game comp entry :))
QuoteSo time to start using some of the stuff like Parallels which was always so chuggy on the old machine again
He he, now you'll have Windows loaded up and good to go within a few seconds and definitely no chuggy chug chug :P
Quote from: STEVIE G on September 29, 2020, 22:50:07
Nice! Seems a shame your using a shitey £20 logitec keyboard and mouse with it (same as mine). ;D
I'm a creature of habit. I even bought a new set when the old ones broke down. Magic Mouse and keyboard still in the box...
Quote from: Qube on September 30, 2020, 00:05:18
Glad to hear it's all arrived and working great for you \o/ - Now stop admiring the speed and get coding your game comp entry :))
Yes, sir!
I spent 3 days fucking about with high score table code for trying to do clever stuff and ended up binning the lot. I'm doing real well at the moment :)