SyntaxBomb - Indie Coders

Languages & Coding => Others => Topic started by: round157 on May 08, 2021, 02:33:55

Title: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: round157 on May 08, 2021, 02:33:55
I find a plan. It looks like an interesting plan:


For those of you who have not joined us on Discord at this time, here is some updated information on ModernBASIC 128.

ModernBASIC 128 is written in C++ version 20 and is powered by OpenGL (eventually Vulkan). ModernBASIC 128 is available in Windows and Linux, but will not support Apple products (i.e. Mac's, iPhone''s, etc...).

Currently, the function that creates an OpenGL window in Windows and Linux is done, and it does not use any outside libraries to accomplish this.

ModernBASIC 128 provides coders with a powerful vector font system, which can be scaled to any size without losing quality, and you have the ability to embed fonts, or a selection of fonts into you compiled apps, keeping them secured where others can't easily take them.

To achieve this, we are currently coding two libraries. The first library is for polygons, and provides a way to convert convex and complex polygons to concave polygons to use in OpenGL. The second library uses the polygon library to translate fonts like TTF to concave polygons, which can be use to display vector text at any size.

When these two libraries are complete, production will begin on a powerful GUI system, which uses the first two libraries. All standard ModernBASIC 128 GUI objects can be styled with a CSS-Like stylesheet system.

With all these systems in place, work will begin on the ModernBASIC 128 IDE, which again is powered by OpenGL.

Finally, when the IDE is done, coding for the three programming languages will commence.


{ https://www.facebook.com/thejoyfulprogrammer/posts/3388548407833165 }
Title: Re: ModernBASIC
Post by: Aurel on May 08, 2021, 06:43:37
Well i know author and unfortunately it is just a PLAN.
sounds like "I have a dream"  :D 
or i have idea(ideas) + few libs i can find around is not enough
to build something like that
Title: Re: ModernBASIC
Post by: MikeHart on May 08, 2021, 07:38:26
Well i know author and unfortunately it is just a PLAN.
sounds like "I have a dream"  :D


So  who is it?
Title: Re: ModernBASIC
Post by: round157 on May 08, 2021, 08:33:44
Well i know author and unfortunately it is just a PLAN.
sounds like "I have a dream"  :D
So  who is it?

I want to know more as well.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC
Post by: round157 on May 08, 2021, 08:35:29
Well i know author and unfortunately it is just a PLAN.
sounds like "I have a dream"  :D

Why said that?
Did you join them on Discord? I am not a Discord user.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC
Post by: Aurel on May 08, 2021, 14:04:12
you find it on facebook and you like to share ..let say news

....or i have idea(ideas) + few libs i can find around is not enough
to build something like that .
Title: Re: ModernBASIC
Post by: bplus on May 08, 2021, 15:30:16
Well i know author and unfortunately it is just a PLAN.
sounds like "I have a dream"  :D


So  who is it?

Waltersmind, carrying big grudge against QB64 Team.

He had a forum that SmallBASIC was on before here.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC
Post by: round157 on May 08, 2021, 16:06:38


....or i have idea(ideas) + few libs i can find around is not enough
to build something like that .

Ok.

Title: Re: ModernBASIC
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 12, 2021, 15:40:05
Let me settle these things once and for all.


GRUDGES:

First of all, I do not have a grudge against The QB64 Team. I personally do not like those people due to the way they have treated people over the years. I have no ill will towards them. Fellippe knows this and knows how I feel. There are a few other reasons as well why I do not like them, but they are not as important to me as what I mentioned previously. If they were, then I would have plenty of reason to hold a grudge, but I forgave and forgot those things years ago.


BANNING:
However, they are the ones who banned me for discussing that I am working on my project which would a direct competitor of QB64. I discussed this on Steve's forum, not QB64's. I never once said a nasty thing to The QB64 Team or anyone else for that matter, and they still banned me from their Discord server and Twitter page.


MY PROJECT:

That project is called, "ModernBasic 128 Studio".

I have been working on that project for over a year now (well, two actually), planning, writing hundreds of test demos to test ideas, learning about "Project Management" through books I own and online, discussing the project with several "professional" developers who work in the software industry, and many other things. Just because I barley post anything online about the project, the people who know me from the QB64 community, like BPlus and Aurel here, believe that it is another one of my hair-brain ideas that I never done anything with.

Here's a picture of one of my Project Management books that I have been reading and highlighting the significant parts that relate to my project.

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/20210510_031731-640x480.jpg)



NEGATIVITY FROM THE QB64 COMMUNITY:

Of course, to be perfectly honest, that is what I wanted them to think. You see, over the years (since 2010), everytime I would come up with a cool idea for a project (all in QB64 during that time), people in the QB64 community would make a lot of negative comments. It would always get to the point to where I decide to walk away from those projects. Why? Because all those projects were to give to the QB64 community.


WHY I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A THREAT TO THAT COMMUNITY:

But, I have always been a threat to that community, and this new QB64 Team. I was the one who taught the community how to add their own commands to the language, which took me two weeks to figure out myself. But that started a huge war and divided the community in half back in 2014. Half was for me, the other half against me. It was crazy. I fixed some issues with the language, and Luke took my code, implemented it into QB64, and claimed it as his own work. That wasn't cool. I was the one who taught the community how to compile QB64 to 64-Bit, which I still have the PDF of that I shared with the community.


MY LEAVING THE QB64 COMMUNITY ON MY OWN ACCORD:

I really don't know why I allowed that community to upset me so bad over the years, but I did. But that all stopped in 2018 when I walked away from the community, closing down my QB64 forum (which also allowed other languages to be discussed as well, like SmallBasic).


MY COMMUNITY GOT WAY BETTER AFTER I LEFT THE QB64 COMMUNITY:

After walking away from the QB64 community, I went into the C++ community, and not only was able to help a lot more people, but I got a lot more enjoyment from them, and never was degraded like I was in the QB64 community. I now have over 60k members on my Facebook group, a Discord server with 390+ members, and a lot more people who value my work.


MY GRAPHICS LIBRARY PROJECT:

In Januaray 2019, I started working on a graphics library that would replace the old <graphics.h> library found in the old Turbo C++ product, so I could share it with the tens-of-thousands of followers I had in my C++ Facebook group, and others I belonged to. However, as I was planning out the project, writing out all the details of the library, including the functions in it, I begin to realize that I was getting close to having my own programming language. Since this idea was on the table since 2014, I thought it would be cool to go ahead and start making such a product.


THE BEGINNING OF A GREAT NEW PROJECT:

I went through a lot of ideas and iterations with the project since I didn't have a clear vision of where I wanted to go with the project, but it didn't matter because it was all out of fun anyways. Then I got a new job that had me working six days a week, so I wasn't able to work on the project as much as I wanted, since the seventh day all I could do is sleep. Then, I changed jobs to where I was driving female prisoners to and from work, and begin working seven days a week, which left little time to work on the project. This went on for about four to five months before we found some other drivers.

ModernBasic 128 Studio started taking shape in 2020, and I finally found the directions I wanted to take with the project, and a lot of that was thanks to the other developers I brainstormed with. Originally, I wanted ModernBasic 128 Studio to be a direct competitor of QB64, just to show that community that I can recreate QB64 from scratch like I have said for many years. I expressed this to those professional developers, and they to it upon themselves to look at the QB64 project, and its source code. They were horrified at what they saw. They too spoke about how horribly written the source code was and that it needed to be rewritten from scratch.


MORE RECENT STATUS OF MODERNBASIC 128 STUDIO:

At this point, though, ModernBasic 128 Studio is no longer a direct competitor of QB64 as it has blossomed into something much more grand. However, one of the three programming languages that will come default in the project will be.

Now, the post that round157 copied and pasted here, is old, and many things have changed, which always happens in the planning/pre-planning stages. None of that is set in stone.

I recently finished the planning stage of the project, I am currently writing the SRS (Software Requirements Specification), which requires a lot of drawings to be made for all the visual parts of the project. This will take some time to complete, since I have to work too for a living. For this, I am currently using a beautiful "note" program called, "Joplin" that allows me to organize everything. It also allows me to export to HTML files and PDF.

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/Screenshot_from_2021-05-02_05-05-28-640x480.png)


NEW LOGO FOR MODERNBASIC 128:

As part of the graphics and visuals for the project, I decided to go ahead and create the logo first. Here are two versions of the logo that I will be using:


THE VERTICAL LOGO:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo9-180x230.png)


THE HORIZONTAL LOGO:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo9-Horizontal-380x86.png)


MY THOUGHTS & HOW THE QB64 COMMUNITY ACTS TOWARDS ME:

This project is a huge endeavor and can not happen over night. It takes time and a lot of planning. However, just because I do not publically post too much about the project, people tend to think that I am not working on the project. However, I am glad they are believing that, as it will make its unveiling that much more sweeter.

So, no, I do not have a grudge against the QB64 community or the QB64 Team, like Aurel thinks. I do, however, find it funny that all mentions of my new project are being deleted from that community, including all of my Twitter posts that somehow managed to end up there. I am super happy that they are doing this, because I don't want to be part of that community anyways. They have always been the most negative community I ever dealt with, especially after allowing myself to believe I was part of that group for so many years.


MY THOUGHTS ABOUT THE QB64 COMMUNITY & PROODUCT:

All the current members of The QB64 community, like Fellipe, Luke, Bill (STxAxTIC), Steve, and Spriggys, can have the QB64 community and project. I don't personally need or want it anymore. Also, they are using that community as a crutch to help themselves feel like they are worth something, and like they are valuable. That's understandable because I was there right along with them for too many years (since 2009). What took me many years to realize, and what they haven't realized yet, is that that Frankenstein of a project will never quench that thirst, as they are walking through a huge and mighty desert where there is no Oasis in the horizon.

In saying that, QB64 is a great product to play around with and does allow some great things to be made with it, just like all the others out there.


NOT ENOUGH LIBRARIES FOR THE PROJECT:

I must mention that Aurel is correct on the point that the libraries out there at this moment, are not enough to build what I have planned. This means I must build a good chunk of the project myself. I also still find it funny how many people seem to think I can't code, even though I have shared tons of projects and demos in many different languages over the years.


A LITTLE HISTORY OF MYSELF & FINAL THOUGHTS:

Speaking of which, I have been coding since 1982, when I was only 10 years old. I have coded in several dozen programming languages, machine language, assembly language, markup languages, scripting languages, style sheets, and many other things. I know what I can do and what I can't do. If I didn't think I could create ModernBasic 128 Studio like I said, then I would have never taken on the project.


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
a.k.a. Waltersmind
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Xaron on May 12, 2021, 16:25:51
Hey Walter!

1) Welcome!
2) What is QB64?
3) Good luck with your project (I mean it!). It's hard enough to make a game, but to create a language can be a pain. I tried and still try here and there.
4) Without joking: Do you think there is still a market for Basic languages? I sometimes question that myself.

I don't know you, nor the QB64 guys. But I wish you luck. You're being two years older than me, coding 4 years longer than me and hell you probably know what you're doing. It's easy to start a project. It's difficult to stick to it and often more or less impossible to finish something. I have probably hundreds of started but never finished projects on my drives. So hell yes, go for it!
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: bplus on May 12, 2021, 17:26:02
Quote
Just because I barley post anything online about the project, the people who know me from the QB64 community, like BPlus and Aurel here, believe that it is another one of my hair-brain ideas that I never done anything with.

For the record: I only know Walter from his forum which he began experimenting with to the point he had closed it with big plans for another. It was his, he could do with it what he wants. I suspect he was hoping to make some money from it (selling programming books) would at least pay for itself but didn't.

Quote
NEGATIVITY FROM THE QB64 COMMUNITY:

Of course, to be perfectly honest, that is what I wanted them to think.
And a good job you've done at that! You all should see some of the posts I've been shown.

I am taking a wait and see stand. I know such neg energy can be used for good instead of evil and Walter has energy!

but he doth protest too much methinks ;-))

Good luck to you Walter with 128 Studio!

Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 12, 2021, 17:27:15
Hello, @Xaron, and thank you for the warm invite!

QB64 is a transpiler programming language and IDE that started out as a QBasic 4.5 clone, but soon became an extended version of the old product.

The QB64 project is a great concept and is fun for nostalgic purposes, but sadly, it isn't a product you can use to create professional projects with.

ModernBasic started out to be a QB64 clone, but it has become more than that. It now will introduce three programming languages (which are transpilers as well):


Yes, creating a language can be daunting, if your compiling straight to machine code, but transpilers simply convert your code to another programming like C++, and then have that compiler compile the C++ code to machine language. This makes things so much easier.

Once the ModernBasic 128 language is done, then we may look into converting it from a transpiler to a compiler.

Yes, there is still a market for BASIC languages, because there are a lot of beginners and enthusiasts out there that can benefit from it. Also, sometimes it is fun just to throw together a project in BASIC, because it appears to be easier to setup then other languages like C++.

Even I enjoy working with BASIC languages like: QB64, BlitzBasic, BlitzPro, Blitz3D, DarkBasic, and so forth and so on.

I was born in December 1971, which really thows off my age...

I have a few projects I never finished, but I have hundreds more that I did.


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Scaremonger on May 12, 2021, 17:57:08
Hi Walter and welcome.

I admire you staying with the same project for two years, that's a massive achievement in itself.

I was born in 1967 and started programming in 1981. Like you, I have programmed in a huge number of languages and that experience gives you a lot of insight into both your abilities and what can be achieved so I look forward to seeing what you produce.

My go-to language for many years (when not at work) was Pascal until I found Blitzmax, but I've noticed over the years how programmers react to "BASIC" languages. Many of them think themselves superior because they don't use it, but you usually find that it's because they cannot. Being a good programmer is knowing the capability of languages and choosing the best one for the job. Blitzmax is not always the best choice, but neither is C++ or Rebol. Not knowing a languages strips you of that choice and that's why I think BASIC has, and always will have, a place.

Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 12, 2021, 18:05:42
Thanks for the comments, @plus!

Let's have a look here...

Quote
For the record: I only know Walter from his forum which he began experimenting with to the point he had closed it with big plans for another. It was his, he could do with it what he wants. I suspect he was hoping to make some money from it (selling programming books) would at least pay for itself but didn't.

The new, "The QB64 Edition" forum was actually completed before I shut it down in 2018. The only thing I needed to do was add some legal pages like "Privacy Policy". I had no intentions of selling anything on that site, but it would had continued using Google Ads so I could make money if I kept it opened. However, I was also in the process of creating QB128, my original remake of QB64, but I started getting a lot of grief and negativity (shouting, yelling, degrading, etc...) from The QB64 Team (primarily Bill [STxAxTIC] and Fellippe). So, my response to having enough of all that negativity that group had showered me with since 2010, was to delete all the entire QB128 project I was working on, and close the forum.

That was another big plan I had that the QB64 Team destroyed, causing me to walk away from, just like that had since 2011. I walked away from many projects because of that group, that of course we related to that project.

Quote
And a good job you've done at that!
That's is excellent to hear!

Quote
You all should see some of the posts I've been shown.
I'm sure you have seen a lot of my comments, and that is great!

Quote
I am taking a wait and see stand.
Join the dozens of others who are waiting as well.

Quote
I know such neg energy can be used for good instead of evil and Walter has energy!

Yes, negative energy can be be used for good or evil, and in this situation, I am using it to create a better product.

Yes, I do have energy, but all my energy comes from my passion and excitement for ModernBasic 128 Studio. At least in this situation.

Quote
but he doth protest too much methinks
Protest... Maybe... But to me, it's all about defending myself. Well... It was at the time. Nowadays, I could care less about defending myself. I care about setting the story straight, and keeping the truth on top.

Quote
Good luck to you Walter with 128 Studio!
Thank you, @bplus, but I don't need luck. I have a huge project I am fully, 100% passionant about, and nobody can destroy this excitement but me, which theres no need to. Many of my QB64 projects died due to negativity, but I will no longer play the victim.



Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: bplus on May 12, 2021, 18:09:47
Yeah I think Basic should be the GOTO language for beginners but we don't need line numbers anymore ;-))
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on May 12, 2021, 18:13:43
Quote
So, no, I do not have a grudge against the QB64 community or the QB64 Team, like Aurel thinks.

- NO..I don't say that ,that say BPlus.

Quote
I must mention that Aurel is correct on the point that the libraries out there at this moment, are not enough to build

-Yes that is what i sayed, and i like to be honest and as always i appreciate your honest elaboaration too.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Scaremonger on May 12, 2021, 18:23:26
Yeah I think Basic should be the GOTO language for beginners but we don't need line numbers anymore ;-))

Having compiler directives that allow you to load old basic programs that contain line numbers would be nice, but you should be able to turn them off.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 12, 2021, 18:40:22
Hello and thank you, Scaremonger!

Quote
I admire you staying with the same project for two years, that's a massive achievement in itself.
Yes, that is a personal achievement for me as well [for personal programming projects].

However, I would like to point out that the project started out as one thing, and has turned into something much, much bigger. So, what has been keeping me focused on the project was not only the people involved with helping me with ideas, but working with the proverbial clay until I discovered it's true form.

Quote
...and that experience gives you a lot of insight into both your abilities and what can be achieved
I fully agree with that! But, it also about how creative we can get with our projects and ideas.

Quote
...so I look forward to seeing what you produce.
ModernBasic 128 Studio is a FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) and community project. My job right now is to finish the SRS (Software Require Specification), which is the document that tells developers how the project should be created, and all the parts to the project.

I will be coding the foundation, the GUI system, and the IDE by myself, just to get started, then I will share that part of the project with the other developers interested in helping with the project. The reason for this is I want the personal experience of creating these things myself, by myself.

Quote
My go-to language for many years (when not at work) was Pascal
Pascal is a great language, but I haven't used it since Borland Pascal days.

Quote
until I found Blitzmax
Another great product!

Quote
but I've noticed over the years how programmers react to "BASIC" languages. Many of them think themselves superior because they don't use it, but you usually find that it's because they cannot.

Oh, how I know that is the truth! I actually see something similar to that all the time! For example, from what I have seen from my 60k+ members on my "C++ and C for Beginners" Facebook group, other Facebook groups, other sites, other forums, my Discord server, and so forth. People think they have learned C++ completely, but lose their minds when they go from the simple "functional" coding paradigm to the event-driven and functional coding paradigm.

I ran into the same problem when I went from coding in DOS to event-driven coding in Windows, and when I went backwards to relearn how to code in the non-event-driven programming language called, "QB64". I had to relearn that style of codingm which took me awhile to get back being used to it.

Quote
Being a good programmer is knowing the capability of languages and choosing the best one for the job. Blitzmax is not always the best choice, but neither is C++ or Rebol
All programming languages are tools, and they have different ways of helping us create solutions to a problem. Some langauges are better suite then others, depending on the project, and your skills with the tools at hand.

At this moment, C++ is my ultimate tool for creating solutions for everything, including ModernBasic 128 Studio. ModernBasic 128 Studio will be created in C++.

Quote
Not knowing a languages strips you of that choice and that's why I think BASIC has, and always will have, a place.
I fully agree! BASIC will always have a place, can be a great tool to use for various solutions, and is perfect for beginners, depending on how deep they want to start out.

When I first started coding, it was in BASIC. I didn't know about anything else. Then, in 1985, I stumbled upon machine language by accident on the Apple ][e computer. So, I bought books on the subject and immediately fell in love with it, and have loved it ever since, though it has gotten a lot more complex then the 8-Bit days.

Quote
Keep up the good work.
The good work is founded on my excitement and passions for each step of the project. This truly shows in the logo for ModernBasic 128, which I created myself in Corel Draw X6. Oh, yeah! I was a graphic artist (mostly typesetter) in the printing industry for 20 years, so I know a thing or two about layouts and designs.

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo9-180x230.png)

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo9-Horizontal-380x86.png)


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: bplus on May 12, 2021, 19:11:16
Yeah I think Basic should be the GOTO language for beginners but we don't need line numbers anymore ;-))

Having compiler directives that allow you to load old basic programs that contain line numbers would be nice, but you should be able to turn them off.

Right, I guess we do need them still to run old code specially non-compiled Interpreter solutions. All Basics I use are not in least confounded by line numbers, it's just that they are not required anymore. I mean we have ELSE and ELSEIF or even SELECT CASE alternate these days (since the late 80's at least) LOL! I am recalling Morristown NJ code that comes up every once and awhile, like old Eliza, I had quite a study of that when I got back to Basic's in 2014. That was with SmallBASIC BTW man what a great little Interpreter!
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 12, 2021, 19:12:33
Quote
[BPlus] Yeah I think Basic should be the GOTO language for beginners but we don't need line numbers anymore ;-))
You're right, @Bplus! We don't need line numbers anymore because now we have BASIC compilers.

I know you might be scratching your head about that last sentence, but let's have a look a the reason why BASIC had line numbers in the first place.

Fact #1:  The original BASIC programming languages, from Dartmouth's version to all those on machines like the Apple ][, Commodore, TI-94a, and the Color Computer required the line numbers. This was because those versions were interpreted languages, not compiled. As an interpreted programming language, each line (not statement) was stored in a linked-list, with a structure like:

AAAA BBBB CC DD EE...

The "AAAA" was the offset to the next line in memory in hexidecimal.
The "BBBB" was the actual line number in hexidecimal (0 to 65535).
The "CC" and later where single byte tokens for every instruction, in hexidecimal of course.

Quote
[Aurel] and i like to be honest and as always i appreciate your honest elaboaration too.

I have always been honest about things, though I may not have always finished a project I spoke about. I too like to hear your honesty as well.

Since I am being honest here... wink... wink...

Let me say this for the last time, I personally do not care what happens to the QB64 project or the QB64 Team. I have no attachments to them, nor do I care what they do. As such, I had to help my buddy CodeHunter, and some others, not only to understand this point of view, but to believe it, so they can move on to bigger and better things, like CodeHunters new forum.

I actually thing I created a monster out of CodeHunter, because he about kicked me off his forum for making that joke about QB64, that I promptly removed.

Quote
[Scaremonger] Having compiler directives that allow you to load old basic programs that contain line numbers would be nice, but you should be able to turn them off.
Actually, there is no need to turn off line numbers @Scaremonger. They are now viewed as labels for the most part.


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 12, 2021, 19:16:26
Also... Let's not forget that back in the Apple ][ and commdore days, BASIC commands could be executed on the command line by simply typing the command with line numbers. But, to store the code into the interpreter, you needed to add line numbers. So, back then, line numbers had multi-roles to play.


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 12, 2021, 19:23:43
I almost forgot!

I remember the day vividly when I was in the eighth grade: My teacher came to me that morning and told me about how programming languages would someday soon no longer need lines numbers to code. I could not imagine how in the world that would be even possible, but that was because I got used to line numbers in BASIC, and memory addresses in machine language.

He then showed me a computer magazine showing off a new BASIC program without any line numbers, and I was mesmerized!

Those were the days!


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Scaremonger on May 12, 2021, 20:14:07
He then showed me a computer magazine showing off a new BASIC program without any line numbers, and I was mesmerized!

I used to study the program listings in those magazines for dozens of different computers and convert them into programs for my computer. That's how I learnt programming. I first encountered assembler as a page full of hexadecimal in a magazine and I was hooked. I bought every book I could find on the subject until I could write that stuff myself.

Fun times.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: zelda64bit on May 12, 2021, 21:06:07
Hello The Joyful Programmer.

I like the modern basic 128 logo and I also like the ideas you have in mind, I am curious to know more about modern basic 128, what else could you tell about this new language.

I would like to see some of the syntax of modern basic 128, can games be programmed with it? Will it have directx support, software or only opengl? Will it be compiled or interpreted?

Although the only language that I have made games is with gamemaker gml, I have also learned the basics of other languages and the ones I liked the most are lua, python and ruby, a shame they are interpreted, if they were compiled it would be wonderful.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 13, 2021, 04:01:05
Quote
[Scaremonger] I used to study the program listings in those magazines for dozens of different computers
Those were the days! No internet. No mouse. No hard drives. No CDs/DVDs/Blu-rays. No video cards. No sound cards to program, just a little speaker you had to toggle at specific rates. No multi-processes. From 1k to 128k of memory. Two-color (monochrome), four-color, eight-color, and sixteen-color displays. From 80x40 to 320x200 graphics. Some machines you had to use ASCII characters or 16x16 sprites for graphics.

When I took "Advanced Computer Programming" in high-school, I really thought I would learn something new. Something valuable. Instead, those classes were more for beginners. While they were learning to PRINT their names on the screen in BASIC, I was doing animation and sound/music in pure machine language on the Apple ][e and Apple ][c. In other words, good games.

Quote
[Scaremonger] I first encountered assembler as a page full of hexadecimal in a magazine and I was hooked.
I discovered machine language on the Apple ][, when I was at a book sale. I saw the book laying there and picked it up. It started discribing the weird gibberish that the Apple would display when something crashed. That is when I discovered there was a hidden language on the computer called, "Machine Language", and I soon realized that it was the language of the computer programming God's! The power of machine language was so magnificent that I wanted it to engulf my being so that I too could wield such power and become a God! No, I didn't want a Goa'uld inside me! Geesh!

Quote
[Scaremonger] I bought every book I could find on the subject until I could write that stuff myself.
As did I! I even bought the entire set of developer manuals straight from Apple. There was as many books as the Encyclopedia Britannica had or more. They filled up 1-1/2 shelves on my book case (from Walmart). They were also hard-back books, and they went into detail about the Apple ][ line including the Apple ][GS.

Quote
[zelda64bit] I like the modern basic 128 logo...
The ModernBasic 128 Studio  logo is full of symbolism.
Quote
[zelda64bit] I also like the ideas you have in mind...
Thank you, but those are just a very minute tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Quote
[zelda64bit] I am curious to know more about modern basic 128, what else could you tell about this new language.
ModernBasic 128 Studio  is just the doorway from the one to the many (like the number 2). The "Studio" part means ModernBasic 128 Studio  is the core of the project (the IDE, compiler/transpiler, the editors, and everything else in the system)

The "Modern" part of the name is a reference to how the project is designed for modern computers, and may not work on older ones, unlike most other programming languages, like FreeBasic and QB64.

ModernBasic 128 Studio  will be fully hardware accelerated by nature, and will be powered by:
OpenGL is a widely used graphics driver for many devices and operating systems, and is a FLOSS project. It also has the expectant life of at least another 20 years (per the official OpenGL website). These are the reasons ModernBasic 128 Studio  will only support the OpenGL family. ModernBasic 128 Studio  will not support proprietary and non-FLOSS graphics driver like DirectX in Windows and Metal on the Mac's.

ModernBasic 128 Studio  will support the following devices:
ModernBasic 128 Studio  will support the following operating systems:
ModernBasic 128 Studio  is not a language itself, as I mentioned above, but does contain multiple languages to choose from.
ModernBasic 128 Studio  will provide transpilers for those three languages. All three will be translated to C++, and a C++ compiler will compile to machine language. Adding more custom languages to the product, or extending existing ones, will be made simple in the IDE.

ModernBasic will contain some revolutionary ideas and technologies.

For example, ModernBasic 128 Studio  will introduce "Fileless Coding", which means your code will no longer be stored in the archaic and static code files (similar in concept to how web sites no longer have to be static pages). This will allow easier and faster coding for developers and will provide a very simple, easy, and sleaker mechanism for version control. It will also offer a level of security for your projects right out the door.

With the "Fileless Coding" technology, we are able to work with assets much more efficiently, especially in our code. We will no longer need to remember internal (of the project) filenames or other asset names. We will still have the ability to load external files as needed, but those will not be secured.

Assets used in ModernBasic projects will be placed into a asset library.

Quote
can games be programmed with it?
Most definitely! Creating games and animations was the whole reason I got into computer programming back in 1982, and I would never abandon those things.

ModernBasic 128 Studio  will provide many types of editors, from code, WYSIWYG, image, sound, tiles, sprites, and many others, right in the comfort of the ModernBasic 128 Studio  (IDE). Think of it as being similar to FL Studio.

Quote
Will it be compiled or interpreted?
Great question! But the answer is two-fold.

As I mentioned above, ModernBasic 128 Studio  will provide transpilers for the three primary languages included in the project, which then will be sent to a compiler. However, we do have plans to integrate a scripting language that can be used in the product, and it will be interpreted.

Quote
I would like to see some of the syntax of modern basic 128
At this moment, we have not defined the syntax or language for ModernBasic 128. While we have some cool ideas for it, nothing has been set in stone yet, which means the community can help out in defining ModernBasic 128.

Here are some of my thoughts so far:


ModernBasic 128 Studio , it's pre-made GUI objects contained in its standard library of assets, and other visual components can be styled with a CSS-like style sheet. This will make it easy to create, and change themes.

These are only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

All this was from my scattered notes on the project, and I barely scratched the surface.

Now... On top of all that info, plus the lot I haven't spoke about, I have written hundreds of demos checking to see if I can do some of the things that I have planned, and they were all written for Linux.

So, as you can see from the tidbit above, I have spent way too much time, energy, effort on this project over the last two years, just to just walk away from it. Will not happen!

You can also get a sense as to why I am super excited about this project on a personal level too. With what I just mentioned in the post, and what I still have left in my notes, I really want this project to be done now so I can start using it myself!

Normally, I would not say so much about this project, but I have done so here because people have asked, and for the fact that I want to put to rest any doubt how much I have worked on and planned for this project.

Yes, this project can seem to be overwhelming in nature, especially for one person to create by themselves, but like I have said for so long, when you spend the time planning a project, especially one the size of this, and write a detailed SRS (Software Requirement Specification) with sketches and drawings, it really isn't that daunting. It's just time consuming.

If you have any more questions, please let me know!


(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo9-Horizontal-380x86.png)


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC
Post by: round157 on May 13, 2021, 04:57:22
MY PROJECT:

That project is called, "ModernBasic 128 Studio".

I have been working on that project for over a year now (well, two actually), planning, writing hundreds of test demos to test ideas, learning about "Project Management" through books I own and online, ............................................................................



Thanks for introducing the project in detail here. This project looks really nice.


Quote
NEW LOGO FOR MODERNBASIC 128:

As part of the graphics and visuals for the project, I decided to go ahead and create the logo first. Here are two versions of the logo that I will be using:


THE VERTICAL LOGO:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo9-180x230.png)

The logo looks quite powerful since it consists of a lot of gears. The logo is beautiful. One reason is that the logo is so colourful. I like the design of the logo. The logo makes a positive impression on the public.


Quote
I know what I can do and what I can't do. If I didn't think I could create ModernBasic 128 Studio like I said, then I would have never taken on the project.

Now I believe that ModernBasic 128 Studio's future will be very bright. Good luck!


Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 13, 2021, 06:06:59
Quote
[round157] Thanks for introducing the project in detail here. This project looks really nice.
You are very welcome!

However, I did start off with the intentions of doing so. One of my members on my "C++ and C for Beginners" Facebook group shared a link to this site, where either he, or someone else had posted a copy of a post I made on my brand's Facebook page.

One thing led to another, and...

Quote
[round157] The logo looks quite powerful since it consists of a lot of gears.
That was one symbolism I was aiming for went I started the creation of it.

Quote
[round157] The logo is beautiful.
Sadly... I can't keep my eyes off of it. I really impressed myself with that logo. I love it so much, I have the vertical version as my background image on my phone.

Quote
[round157] The logo makes a positive impression on the public.
It does have that positive vibe to it, which honestly, I didn't think about that aspect when I created it. But, yeah, the colors do make it pop, and feel positive. The colors were suppose to symbolize all the different types of coders out there,

Quote
[round157] Now I believe that ModernBasic 128 Studio's future will be very bright.
I too believe ModernBasic 128 Studio will have a bright future as long as the project maintainers (myself included) continue to follow the vision of the product.

My goals are to start two LLC's (Limited Liability Corporation), and turning one of them into a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. The non-profit foundation will be the one in control of the ModernBasic 128 Studio, which is a FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) product.


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Derron on May 13, 2021, 08:43:22
The logo reminds me of an inca tribe on drugs (font choice of the "text logo" supports the aztec/inca/... reminiscence).

In itself it might look cheerful, and eye attracting - but when having to judge the intention / usecase of the logo it is - in my opinion of course - not fitting.

- it is too complex for a (todays) logo
- it uses too many colors for individual focus points (one of the exceptions is the "rainbow" as it is seen as "one piece")
- minor: it contains a "tm" - sure it is trademarked?
- the cogwheels are bent ... sturdy cogwheels do not bend!
- bent cogwheels remind on cockscomb or an Romanian legionaires Crista
- cogwheel in the center is differently designed than the outer ones (things should not look like "different sources mixed together")
- take away the distracting colours of the outer cogwheels ... and what is left looks like an "all observing robot eye"

The idea of 8, 16 ... 128 etc might be nice to have - but maybe do not force it. Sometimes "less is more". Maybe see this logo as a "revision #1" and let others follow - settle down on colours, simplify shapes ...
Logos can of course still look cheerful - but it just does not always fit.


Above is only my opinion - and it is only about the logo. The other parts of the project I am not utterly interested (now) so I neither judge that nor have an opinion about it.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on May 13, 2021, 10:28:36
Quote
The logo reminds me of an inca tribe on drugs
;D

I don't know that Inca tribe  :o
but yes considering logo looking nice but also little bit complex
so i am proud on my logo which is very simple letter A inside parens
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on May 13, 2021, 10:38:31
maybe something like this  ;)
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: zelda64bit on May 13, 2021, 21:27:48
Hello the cheerful programmer.

Everything you say is very promising and exciting, I have some final questions.

Gamemaker brings a good amount of variables, functions and predesigned methods to help you in the creation of video games of all kinds, will modern basic 128 be more similar to gamemaker? Or it will be more like bliztmax that does not bring any help and you have to create everything from scratch.

I would like to know if the code editor will have autocompletion, in gamemaker when you program in addition to autocompletion at the bottom of the ide a summary of the function you are calling appears to see the parameters that you have to pass, this way you don't have to be all the time looking at the documentation.

Will Modern Basic bring documentation, tutorials, examples, etc.?

Will the documentation be in English only or will there be more languages?

What will happen with time and updates, how are you going to raise it? Gamemaker at first was a small and optimized language and everything worked very well and with few resources, but when Gamemaker Studio arrived, too many things were added to the language and the editor, and it came out very heavy and with many errors. Then gamemaker studio 2 arrived and they inflated everything, now the language is complex and the environment as well, it asks for almost the same requirements as unreal engine 4 ... I stayed in gamemaker 8. I have seen that this also usually happens with many languages. Can the same happen to modern basic 128?

Lastly, I would like to know where I could see the progress of the modern basic or maybe I will show it here in this forum.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on May 13, 2021, 23:10:43
Maybe you should try Visual batari basic
&t=358s
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 14, 2021, 09:34:35
Wow! Great comments and questions! This is going to be fun!

Quote
[Derron] The logo reminds me of an inca tribe on drugs (font choice of the "text logo" supports the aztec/inca/... reminiscence).

Actually... It kinds does doesn't it? I absolutely enjoy learning about past civilizations like the Incas, Aztecs, and Egyptians, so they may have mingled into my logo.

I would like to tell everyone how I appreciate their ideas about the logo, and that the design is never finished until the overall project is complete.

Quote
[Derron] In itself it might look cheerful, and eye attracting
Thank you. That was my intention.

Quote
[Derron] but when having to judge the intention / usecase of the logo it is - in my opinion of course - not fitting.
Good to know! I was a typesetter/graphic artist for 20 years, but logo design was really never my thing. So the information you provided was excellent.

Quote
[Derron] - it is too complex for a (todays) logo
That I agree with. I kept thinking the same thing myself. I removed the teeth from the "cog wheels" on the outer edge,as they made the logo look way too busy. I also fattened up the circles a bit.

Now, I would like to point out that the logo was only created in a couple of hours, and was a rough draft of an idea I had in a dream (Strange as it may sound). Usually when logo designers work on logos, they generally provide multi-variations. I too have multiple versions, but only showed the best of them.

Quote
[Derron] it uses too many colors for individual focus points (one of the exceptions is the "rainbow" as it is seen as "one piece")
I was thinking the same thing. All the colors were making it distracting, but I do like the "rainbow" idea as it symbolizes "diversity". On the new version, I cut down on the colors.

Quote
[Derron] minor: it contains a "tm" - sure it is trademarked?
The "Trademark" symbol you see on the logo is the ™ mark, which shows it is a trademark, but it isn't registered with the "The United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO)". It is not the ® mark which would mean it was registered. By using the ™ mark, my logo is protected by law, thought it wasn't registered. This is the same effect as placing "Copyrighted..." on your materials.

Quote
[Derron] the cogwheels are bent ... sturdy cogwheels do not bend!
Yeah... I agree. I was trying to make them look like they were spinning, but it didn't turn out very well. So... Scratch that idea...

Quote
[Derron] cogwheel in the center is differently designed than the outer ones (things should not look like "different sources mixed togethe
Originally, they were all the same. I just duplicated the same cog wheel, then did an overall twist on the entire pattern.

(https://www.thejoyfulprogrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/Logo-Design-Ideas-Screenshot-DateYMD_210514-TimeHMS_045201.png)

Quote
[Derron] take away the distracting colours of the outer cogwheels ... and what is left looks like an "all observing robot eye"
While I did not think of it like that, that's actually a pretty clever symbolism that actually will fit the product.

Quote
[Derron] The idea of 8, 16 ... 128 etc might be nice to have - but maybe do not force it.
While I wasn't thinking like that, it does appear to be the case. Lesson learned: What might appear to be cool, isn't.

Quote
[Derron] Sometimes "less is more".
That is so true!

Quote
[Derron] Maybe see this logo as a "revision #1" and let others follow - settle down on colours, simplify shapes ...
Most definitely! I did take your advice on those last two points and removed the teeth on the cogs of the outer rim, and removed the darker background colors. I knew I would be revising the logo over time, however, that was revision #9.

Quote
[Derron] Above is only my opinion - and it is only about the logo.
I appreciate all opinions (good or bad).

Here's the latest incarnation of the logo. What are your thoughts about it?

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo13-Horizontal.png)

Quote
[Derron] The other parts of the project I am not utterly interested (now) so I neither judge that nor have an opinion about it.
Completely fair and I appreciate that.

Quote
[Aurel] I don't know that Inca tribe  :o
but yes considering logo looking nice but also little bit complex
Thank you and I do agree.

Quote
[zelda64bit] Everything you say is very promising and exciting, I have some final questions.
Please, ask all the questions you want! They help the project a lot, especially since I can't think of everything by myself. Questions allow me to think about the different persepctives I missed before.

Quote
[zelda64bit] Gamemaker brings a good amount of variables, functions and predesigned methods to help you in the creation of video games of all kinds, will modern basic 128 be more similar to gamemaker? Or it will be more like bliztmax that does not bring any help and you have to create everything from scratch.
You really do ask some AWESOME questions!

The overall design of ModernBasic 128 Studio is to provide us with the facilities to help us create our games and apps faster and easier.

ModernBasic 128 Studio isn't your run-of-the-mill IDE & compiler product, like BlitzMax, QB64, or even FreeBasic. That has been overly done over the years and my goal is to get away from that.

ModernBasic 128 Studio is a general development suite which allows you to develop apps and games. Personally, the whole reason I got into computer programming back in 1982 was due to graphic animation and games. My favorite types of games are 2D, 2-1/2D, side scrollers, orthogonal, top-down view, text adventures, and graphical text adventures. Implementing tools to help us create these types of games, and more, are a must.

As I mentioned in a previous post, ModernBasic 128 Studio will provide us with multiple editors to use to build our projects with. Here's a list of some of the ones I have in my notes:

Quote
[zelda64bit] I would like to know if the code editor will have autocompletion
Most definitely! The autocompletion can be toggled on or off if you so choose. There are a large group of people out there that believe autocompletion is bad because it can cause laziness, among other things. I personally don't agree with that, but those people will have the option of turning it off if they choose.

Quote
[zelda64bit] Will Modern Basic bring documentation, tutorials, examples, etc.?
Absolutely and most definitely! My goal with the project is to create the documentation as we build the product. I can not stand downloading a product like BlitzMax, MonkeyX, Godot, or others, and not have a good documentation with it. This makes it difficult to use the product right out-of-the-box, and leaves way too many questions in the air. Many times, I don't want to invest my time into a project whose developers refused to invest their time in good documentation. I can not see any reason why the documentation can't be created as each part is made, like each command in a language.

Quote
[zelda64bit] Will the documentation be in English only or will there be more languages?
The preliminary documentation will be in English only. English is the most dominant language on the planet (out of the 7'139 living languages - 4'065 with a developed writing system), and 99% of the countries out there are able to read English.

I personally only speak English and I have no interest in learning any other. However, the community is more than welcome to translate the documentation to other languages if they want, but that would be a massive undertaking in it self.

Quote
[zelda64bit] What will happen with time and updates, how are you going to raise it?
Another excellent question!

Let me start off by reiterating the fact that ModernBasic 128 Studio is a FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) project. This means you will be able to download the source code, and all other elements, make other the modifications you want and recompile it yourself.

ModernBasic 128 Studio will be placed on a site like GitHub or GitLab (still debating on this one), and all updates will be maintained there. Pre-compiled versions can be download from our website at https://www.ModernBasic128.com (https://www.ModernBasic128.com).

The pre-compiled binary versions of ModernBasic 128 Studio will provide an automatic update system, but the source code version will not.

The pre-compiled binary versions of ModernBasic 128 Studio will come with an "Asset Store" where you can download assets like: Music, sound effects, tile sheets, sprite sheets, filters, shaders, and so much more, but the source code version will not.

Any system that will require access to our website, or other online presence, will not be provided in the source code due to security reasons.

Quote
[zelda64bit] Gamemaker at first was a small and optimized language and everything worked very well and with few resources, but when Gamemaker Studio arrived, too many things were added to the language and the editor, and it came out very heavy and with many errors.
I remeber when GameMaker first came out, and I remember when the original creator of the project walked away from it and sold it to somebody else, which is when GameMaker Studio was born.

It's not possible to craft a large software product that doesn't have bugs in the beginning, but good planning, attention to detail, and good management will help developers cut down on those errors. A lot of errors come from the system the software is running on, but careful error-checking in the code will cut down on those errors as well.

Another problem in the software industry, is that most of the companies are under a deadline, and irregardless if the product is ready for production or not (as long as it is working somewhat), they will release the product to market. Their ideas are to fix the errors later, but get the product to the clients/users ASAP!

As a FLOSS product, we are not bound to deadlines, at least not with this product. So, we will enjoy the pleasures of providing countless beta versions until will get to the point of being able to call the latest version, "release".

Quote
[zelda64bit] Then gamemaker studio 2 arrived and they inflated everything, now the language is complex and the environment as well, it asks for almost the same requirements as unreal engine 4 ... I stayed in gamemaker 8. I have seen that this also usually happens with many languages. Can the same happen to modern basic 128?
The word, "complexity" is a relative term and doesn't really explain the issues. The more tools a product has to offer, the more of learning curve it has. But this is true in any industry. Take a look at all the new tools and ideas in the medical care industry. Once you take the time to learn all the tools of a product (Unreal 4, Unity, GameMaker Studio, ModernBasic 128 Studio, Godot, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Flash, Corel Draw, construction industry, painting/drawing, etc...) then things are not as "complex" as you first thought. This is the nature of having more tools.

Another aspect of the word "complex" being relative... What may be complex to me, may be simple to you, or Vica-Versa.

In saying all that, this is where documentation, tutorials, and examples will help make things easier.

There will be tons of examples for ModernBasic 128 Studio for people to play around with. Since I will also be a big user of the product, and one of the developers, I will need to create demos to test out every part of the product. Those demos will be provided for everyone to enjoy. Plus, like I have with many other programming languages over the years, I will be creating tons of personal demos that I will want to share with the world.

Let's not forget that will we have beta testers for the project, and they too may provide great demos for the project.

There's no telling at this point how far ModernBasic 128 Studio will grow in the future, so I can not say either way.

Quote
[zelda65bit] Lastly, I would like to know where I could see the progress of the modern basic or maybe I will show it here in this forum.
Originally, I was posting about it on my brand's (The Joyful Programmer) Discord server, but I have removed most of that content due to the constant changes, as well as security for the product. There are still a ton of details about the project that I haven't mentioned, and planned to keep as a secret for time being.

However, I do have a Discord server specifically for ModernBasic 128 Studio that I will be utilizing at some point soon. However, now that you asked I may go ahead and get it going.

As I previously mentioned, we are currently working on a website for ModernBasic 128 Studio, which is located at https://www.ModernBasic128.com (https://www.ModernBasic128.com). Both it, and my main website, located at https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com (https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com) are powered by TikiWiki, a very powerful CMS software, which is a "complex" product.



As I had mentioned before, ModernBasic 128 Studio will be designed around newer computers and hardware. The minimum hardware support (for PC's) is:
The minimum support specs for Android devices and Raspberry Pi are unknown at this time.



Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: iWasAdam on May 14, 2021, 11:13:47
Here's some thoughts for you:
1. the font used is very close to comicsans style - I would suggest changing it to something... else
2. the 128 has no meaning - suggest dropping it
3. the current logo is way to complex - suggest simplifying it - can it be used black and white?
4. 'modern basic' doesn't sound right - surely all basics are not 'modern' to some extent? suggest something that would give and instant in your face remember me name
5. I like the thought process of the aztec logo, suggest using that concept

OK. here's my base attempt at taking all the above and reconstructing the name, logo, etc so everything all fits into a single unified approach:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/astec.png)

Some explanation to the thought process:
1. aztec seems a good foundation. so lets call it Aztec Basic - I checked and there is not an existing Aztec Basic :)
2. find a nice clear font that also has some sort of backward influence
3. research and pick a suitable logo symbol. In this case the aztec bird - birds are usually decoded as 'freedom', and 'happiness'
4. take a basic color swatch that is common to aztec and use them
5. place bird logo on block - this is not geometric, but slightly drawn that fits in with the solid hand made rock

Using all the above you now have a name and a logo with different variations and also a main icon :)
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Derron on May 14, 2021, 12:23:38
so the different corner radius are intented? (and that the corners seem to be "slanted/offset/" and not perfect symmetrical diagonally ?)
I think the basic idea (3 bigger "curved corners" and a tinier one) works well - might work better if exaggerated a bit more.

Aztec Basic sounds cool (really!) - but might remind on "ancient" (and who wants to code in something "ancient"). But might also mean "old and proven".

The bird is a bit "blurry/smoothed" compared to the sharp text. If someone settles for the idea the bird might better be redrawn to have a more "sharp" appearance - and not to look "vectorized bitmap" as of now.

Edit - instead of the bird a "custom" asztek-style icon would suit well for a coding language too ... like an "asztec computer" - or here, something which reminds on a nerd face :D

(https://cdn3.iconfinder.com/data/icons/aztec-civilization/100/aztec_civilization_antique_pyramid_gold_bird_animal-512.png)
https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/5951043/animal_antique_aztec_bird_civilization_gold_pyramid_icon


bye
Ron
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on May 14, 2021, 12:30:33
Quote
and who wants to code in something "ancient"

yeah good one   ;D
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Midimaster on May 14, 2021, 12:55:01
the name "aztec-basic" is genius!

it is a combination of "a to z", which is a synonymus for "complete" and the word "tec" which is a abbreviation for "technic". Together is it symbolized with a acient "aztec"-sign, which make it unique and easy to remember.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on May 14, 2021, 13:43:13
sorry Ron but your icon looks like
castle with 3D glasses and big nose and big tongue  :o
 ;D
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Derron on May 14, 2021, 15:11:18
It is not my icon - and I only wanted to have an example of an icon/symbol which might not be based on an actual ancient aztec/inca.... symbol but just using their "style".


@midi master
yes, had this "a-z + tech" in my mind too :)


Sorry @OP for derailing the thread so much.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: bplus on May 14, 2021, 18:48:41
https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,8440.msg347050171.html#msg347050171

One may wonder if Walter will ever get anything done with Studio 128 with replies like this.

but not me ;-))

PS And we are still redesigning the logo I see, ha! I like the cogs myself, specially if you can get them turning, I think I have some cogs on fire thingy you might like, maybe Walter remembers it?

PPS Come to think of it, I have an Interpreter waiting for some private variables for Subs, so much more fun socializing at forums ;-))

Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 14, 2021, 19:43:34
Quote
[iWasAdam] the font used is very close to comicsans style - I would suggest changing it to something... else
That font was the only "fun" one I could find on my Windows 8 machine. I literally have over a hundred thousand fonts that I collected for the last 20+ years, on my 8TB external harddrive, but I can't access it since it was formatted with the ext4 file format, which can only be accessed in Linux.

My primary operating system is Linux Mint, but due to some strange turns of events, I am stuck with Windows 8. When my old laptop fried (literally), I used my daughters old machine. Then her computer is having a hardware failure, which kept causing my hard drives to get corrupted. So, I started using a PC I was given when a previous company I worked for for over 18 years closed its doors. However, it has an old video card with 64MB of memory and it has some serious issues. I have to get a new video card. Due to the issues I am having with the video card, when I boot into Linux Mint, I can't see any icons or text.

However, the font I finally choose needs to be fun, almost childish looking.

Quote
[iWasAdam] the 128 has no meaning - suggest dropping it
Actually, the "128" has plenty of meaning in the name. Here are a few of them:
ModernBasic 128 offers the following integer sizes:
ModernBasic 128 offers the following floating-point sizes:

Quote
[iWasAdam] the current logo is way to complex - suggest simplifying it - can it be used black and white?
Yes, the logo can be turned into black & white.

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo13-Horizontal-Black-and-White.png)

I took your advice and simplified the logo a bit to see what I could come up with. Here is a spread of the updated version:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo14-Horizontal-Spread-432x100.png)

Here's the spread at a smaller resolution:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo14-Horizontal-Spread-216x50.png)

Quote
[iWasSam] 'modern basic' doesn't sound right - surely all basics are not 'modern' to some extent? suggest something that would give and instant in your face remember me name
I know my posts are long, but you should reread them. ModernBasic 128 Studio will be way more modern then current programming languages, which is why I chose the "modern" for the name.

The "modern" part of the name does NOT in imply the language (syntax) is more modern. The "modern" part implies that the way you code, and how projects are designed. As I mentioned before, I will be introducing a revolutionary concept of "fileless" coding. This new concept will be explained in greater detail when the product enters the "BETA" stage. So, the "Modern" part of the name is a major concept for the product.

Quote
[iWasSam] I like the thought process of the aztec logo, suggest using that concept
While the Aztec's were complex and advanced, they represent the past, as where ModernBasic 128 Studio represents the future of coding. The name must point to the future, not the past.

Now, as I stated before, there are three programming languages in the product:
You have a very cool idea, and we could incorporate a forth programming language called, "AztecBasic", but that will be after the product has been placed in "Release". Adding more (custom) programming languages to ModernBasic 128 Studio will be very easy to do (hence: Modern).

Quote
[Derron] Aztec Basic sounds cool (really!) - but might remind on "ancient" (and who wants to code in something "ancient").
My point exactly! Well, it's my point when it comes to the "ModernBasic 128" programming language name, not the "ModernBasic 128 Studio" name. They are two different things, which I can see could be confusing.

However, as I mentioned above, we could add it as a forth programming language and maybe even do something crazy and out of this world with it, but for now, I have to stick with what we have planned.

Like I said, AztecBasic can be added to the ModernBasic 128 Studio when it is released. We are making ModernBasic 128 Studio easy enough to add more "custom" programming languages to the product.


Quote
[Derron] Sorry @OP for derailing the thread so much.
No, you didn't derail the thread. The OP posted a copy of some information I posted on my Facebook page, so this whole thread is all about ModernBasic 128 Studio, including its logo.
Quote
[Bplus] One may wonder if Walter will ever get anything done with Studio 128 with replies like this.
Actually, Bplus, I am working on ModernBasic 128 Studio. Remember, we are still in the planning stages of the product, even though I am working on the SRS (Software Requirement Specification).

ModernBasic 128 Studio is a community FLOSS project, so whenever we get a chance to discuss it, I am ready. You never know what ideas we might uncover to incorporate into the product.

Quote
[BPlus] but not me ;-))
I know, Bplus. I know.

Quote
[BPlus] PS And we are still redesigning the logo I see, ha!
Yes, we are still working on the logo. It's not finalized at this point.

Quote
[BPlus] I like the cogs myself, specially if you can get them turning,
Yeah, I like the cogs myself too, and I had plans on animating them. However, when I started comparing the cogs to the smooth "wheels" version, the cogs were to overwhelming.

Quote
[BPlus] I think I have some cogs on fire thingy you might like, maybe Walter remembers it?
Yes, I do remember it very well!


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: iWasAdam on May 14, 2021, 19:49:53
You cannot use basic for a forth language. Forth is forth, basic is basic.
I wish you luck
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: zelda64bit on May 14, 2021, 20:22:42
I still like the first logo more and the name of the modern basic 128 I also like.

Some engines to give you some new ideas.
https://www.construct.net/en
https://pilas-engine.com.ar/
http://www.stencyl.com/

Some languages to give you new ideas.
https://www.python.org/
https://www.ruby-lang.org/es/
https://golang.org/
https://www.lua.org/
https://divgo.net/
https://coolbasic.com/

I would like to know how you are going to present the examples, they will be like the ones that bliztmax brings, which are very long and only suitable for experienced programmers of the language, or they will be small examples as a tutorial for beginners.

The use of pointers such as sera, manual or smart pointers.

I would also like to know if the modern core language will bring new features that no language currently has, or will it just copy features from current languages.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: zelda64bit on May 14, 2021, 20:36:21
Maybe you should try Visual batari basic
&t=358s

This is for making games for the Atari 2600 and is also obsolete.
Better this which is more current:
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on May 14, 2021, 23:06:53
If i would  use something new-er then Godot
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 15, 2021, 06:37:47
Quote
[zelda64bit] I still like the first logo more and the name of the modern basic 128 I also like.
So you like this version:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo12-Horizontal.png)

More then you like this one?:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/MB128-Logo14-Color-100x100.png)

Quote
[zelda64bit] Some engines to give you some new ideas.
https://www.construct.net/en
https://pilas-engine.com.ar/
http://www.stencyl.com/
Construct looks decent, but the other two are lacking...

Quote
[zelda64bit] Some languages to give you new ideas.
https://www.python.org/
https://www.ruby-lang.org/es/
https://golang.org/
https://www.lua.org/
https://divgo.net/
https://coolbasic.com/
I knew about most of them already, except for the last two. I love CoolBasic's story. DivGo is something similar to what we wanted to do.

Quote
[zelda64bit] I would like to know how you are going to present the examples, they will be like the ones that bliztmax brings, which are very long and only suitable for experienced programmers of the language, or they will be small examples as a tutorial for beginners.
ModernBasic 128 Studio will come with a "User's Manual" which will explain all the details of the product and how to use it. As with any good manual, there will be simple tutorials to teach you how to do things.

The User's Manual will come in PDF format and web-based format (HTML, etc...).

Quote
[zelda64bit] The use of pointers such as sera, manual or smart pointers.
ModernBasic 128 Studio will be multi-platform, and some platforms, like the web, does not allow pointers. Since ModernBasic 128 Studio will allow developers to craft their projects  around a specific platform, there will be "visable flags" letting you know by a quick glance what you can compile your project, and what you can't. If later on you want to compile to more platforms, ModernBasic 128 Studio will show you the code that will not work on those specific platforms.

Quote
[zelda64bit] I would also like to know if the modern core language will bring new features that no language currently has, or will it just copy features from current languages.
You need to remember that ModernBasic 128 Studio will consist of more then one programming language, and will have it's own scripting language.

The first programming language will be a clone of the old QBasic 4.5.

The second language will be an enhanced version of the first.

The third language will be completely unique.

Those three programming languages will start of as "transpilers" which means they will get translated to C++ on the PC and a C++ compiler will compile and link that code to an executable.

For the web, those languages will be transpiled to EMScripten (or something similar), then compiled to WebAssembly.

For Android phones, those languages will be transpiled to JAVA, which then must be compiled for the Android devices through Android Studio. We will not be using the apps that will compile C++ directly to the format used by Android devices as it will be slower, and have bugs, which is the nature of the beast.

At this time, we are not interested in MAC's (which we personally will never support, due to Apple removing OpenGL and replacing it with Metal, which is costly for developers and is proprietary).

We will be introducing and incorporating new technologies into all three programming languages that's never been seen before. Yes, RetroBasic, which is a clone of QBasic 4.5, will introduce some new technologies found across the board in the other two programming langauges. As I mentioned before, one such new technology will be fileless coding, which is where you projects will not longer be separated into multiple files like is done in most languages today.

Breaking code into multiple files allowed us to separate our code to make it easier to find parts of the code, and to recompile more quickly when only a handful of files had changed. ModernBasic 128 Studio organizes code in a totally different way without having tons of files scattered all over the place, but makes it far more faster to find every piece of code, while possibly speeding up compiled time even more.

All "sub-window" (frameless child windows) GUI objects (buttons, menus, etc...) will be crafted from scratch and will be purely hardware accelerated. There are many pros to crafting our own GUI objects, like:
Not only will ModernBasic 128 Studio introduce it's own scripting language (like you see in a lot of game development applications, like Godot and unity), but it will also provide it's own custom CSS system which can be use to style just about everything. Like standard CSS that you use for your websites, our custom CSS will also offer variables (like a scripting language) and calculating values.

ModernBasic 128 Studio will not be available on 32-Bit machines.

Quote
[Aurel] If i would  use something new-er then Godot
Every product is a tool, and each tool specializes in specific areas. Same is true for ModernBasic 128 Studio.


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: iWasAdam on May 15, 2021, 12:40:03
you seem to talk a lot and produce not a lot...  8)
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 15, 2021, 15:52:03
you seem to talk a lot and produce not a lot...  8)
Appearances can be deceiving!

I've written 13 posts, including this one since Wednesday, May 12, 2021, which is only four days. I've spent the last two years:

ModernBasic 128 Studio is still in the planning/SRS stages, and as such, discussing the project with others is a huge thing at the moment, as you never know what new ideas you might come across that could be used to make the project better. Ideas neither I or the other developers have thought about.

ModernBasic 128 Studio is a huge endeavour and requires a lot of learning. I have barely scratched the surface about the project on this forum.

Also, I am currently out of a job, looking for one, so I have a lot of time to discuss this project on here and anywhere else on the web, continuing to create tests for the project, documenting the ideas for the project, and write the SRS which includes creating graphics.

What I haven't mentioned on this forum, but have elsewhere, once production starts on ModernBasic 128 Studio, we will be starting two LLC's (Limited Liability Corporations), transforming one of them into a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Even though ModernBasic 128 Studio is a FLOSS (Free/Libre Open-Source Software) product, we will be making money on the project, just like Mozilla made $461 Million (US) in 2019 just on the Firefox web browser.

On a final note, I am not a spring chicken anymore, and I am racing against time trying to get this product produced. I will be turning 50 later this year, which gives me about 10-20 more years of life (based on the average 70 years humans tend to live) to get it done.


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: zelda64bit on May 15, 2021, 15:57:50
I wish you good luck with the project. :)
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on May 15, 2021, 22:06:24
I wish you good luck with the project. :)
Thank you, but where I am going, I don't need luck (or roads)!


Walter Whitman
The Joyful Programmer
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: 3DzForMe on May 16, 2021, 07:21:32
Quote
   On a final note, I am not a spring chicken anymore, and I am racing against time trying to get this product produced. I will be turning 50 later this year, which gives me about 10-20   

Likewise, although I'm hoping for at least another 30 or so  8)
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on May 16, 2021, 20:19:04
3dz
Interesting site you have ..  :)
http://www.gpsrunner.co.uk/8bitfun.html
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on July 20, 2021, 05:15:11
OK, guys... An update on the ModernBasic 128 Studio logo:

After 19 iterations of the logo, I think I finally found the version I was after. Let me know what you think...

Here's the colored, vertical logo:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/ModernBasic-128-Studio---LOGO19-Color-Vertical-200x256.png)

Here's the black & white, vertical version of the vertical logo:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/ModernBasic-128-Studio---LOGO19-Black-and-White-Vertical-200x256.png)

Here's the colored, horizontal logo:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/ModernBasic-128-Studio---LOGO19-Color-Horizontal-400x116.png)

Here's the black & white logo, horizontal logo:

(https://www.TheJoyfulProgrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/ModernBasic-128-Studio---LOGO19-Black-and-White-Horizontal-400x116.png)


Some of the hidden meanings behind the logo are:

Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on July 20, 2021, 10:56:34
If you want attract modern population you should change your
logo to this one ..right now

Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on July 20, 2021, 11:36:34
Nah... The QB64 Team can do that for their logo... Right now! They are the ones that need help getting members for their communities and users of their crappy product.

My Discord server currently has over 540 members in it, and it is growing. I see that the QB64 Discord server still has less the 300 members.
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on July 20, 2021, 13:26:08
well what to say i like it   ;D

good for me ,in next release i will use this Logo
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on July 20, 2021, 13:34:07
Quote
My Discord server currently has over 540 members in it, and it is growing. I see that the QB64 Discord server still has less the 300 members.

 :o

discord is irelevant
if you have 50% of bot and 50% of lurkers-blitzers so at and you have only 40 members
same on they discord half so called members are bots ...
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: The Joyful Programmer on July 21, 2021, 03:58:14
Too funny, Aurel!

Actually, Micro(A) Interpreter is irrelevant! Your claiming it to be one thing when it is another, and you now want to use a logo that makes everyone realize that your project is nothing but false hopes and dreams. They already know that it produces bloatware because it's a third generation programming language (meaning your language gets translated to another language, and that language gets translated to another language, and that one gets translated to binary).

Still, my logo looks way better then yours! Wait! That's why your trying to put me down! Because i am better then you! SWEET!!!

(https://www.thejoyfulprogrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/ModernBasic-128-Studio---LOGO19-Color-Vertical-200x256.png)      (https://www.thejoyfulprogrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/ModernBasic-128-Studio---LOGO19-Color-Vertical-200x256.png)      (https://www.thejoyfulprogrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/ModernBasic-128-Studio---LOGO19-Color-Vertical-200x256.png)      (https://www.thejoyfulprogrammer.com/img/tjp-misc/ModernBasic-128-Studio---LOGO19-Color-Vertical-200x256.png)

Oh! Sweet mesmerizing logo! There is so much I can do with that logo, and it is a great marketing tool! Your logos... Are boring, even with the women!

Yes, your jealous of me Aurel! You're envious of me! Why? Because I am a better programmer then you, and a better graphic designer! As such, you can't stand me, and I am loving it!

Thank you for your time Aurel!
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: LineOf7s on July 21, 2021, 14:57:34
This is... satire... right?  Right?
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on July 21, 2021, 15:02:35
Quote
Actually, Micro(A) Interpreter is irrelevant! Your claiming it to be one thing when it is another, and you now want to use a logo that makes everyone realize that your project is nothing but false hopes and dreams. They already know that it produces bloatware because it's a third generation programming language (meaning your language gets translated to another language, and that language gets translated to another language, and that one gets translated to binary).

And as usual you get it wrong , i said discord as such is irelevant not your chanel specifically...,

second
my micro(A) is a token interpreter ..everybody can look into code and will see that not translate to anything than
just execute tokens ....again you are wrong .
micro(A) is created and compiled in Oxygen Basic which is native 32/64 bit compiler for Windows
so again you are lost track in your observation.

..and i don't claiming  to be one thing...which is what ? "one thing"..

Yes it is very limited but is working , everybody can download and try ,,i don't have nothing to hide or something like that .

 
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on July 21, 2021, 15:05:27
Quote
This is... satire... right?  Right?

Unfortunatelly is not .
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: Aurel on July 21, 2021, 15:10:23
Quote
Yes, your jealous of me Aurel!

No i am not ,why i be jealous on you , and please stop connecting me with QB64
i don't have nothing with that product.

But one thing for sure logo with 3 nice girls may attract more nerds
...you know biology is a powerful tool  ;D

that remind me a lot on this "penny B" so if you want to attract lgbt blossoms i then agree
Title: Re: ModernBASIC 128 Studio
Post by: WinDoughs on July 26, 2021, 01:25:19
Does this code exist anywhere online to try?
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal