I found this. The program looks superior.
https://download.aoz.studio/
Ahh I have fond memories of STOS and AMOS. Still have copies of AMOS.
From what I could take of its website is that AOZ Studio transpiles to Javascript which is then bundled with native players.
I'm guessing this is a new version of 'AMOS 2' which was half-started around 3 years ago but then seemingly got dropped (or at least Francois Lionet seemed to stop developing/posting-about-it after a few months)? I'm pretty sure the promotion blurb in his [Francois Lionet's] promotional emails stated that the product created Javascript code which could be used by players on various operating systems.
I loved AMOS too (and AMOS3D & AMOS Pro - though the 'Interface' system of the latter [for which I bought it] was incredbly buggy) and spent a lot of hours coding in it until I discovered Blitz Basic for Amiga, after which I never looked back.
It will be interesting to see whether AOZ develops into a fully fledged product (I cannot work out from the website whether Francois Lionet is still actively involved) or ends up going the same way as 'AMOS 2'...
The last commit on its BitBucket was in 2019. Fair to say that it might be dead already, but who knows.
Francois has had a number of nervous breakdowns I think it was. I read he just had his 8th not so long ago. I think he mentioned before he has bipolar disorder. Stress on a project like this can not be that good for that.
Quote from: MikeHart on June 11, 2021, 09:56:52
Ahh I have fond memories of STOS and AMOS. Still have copies of AMOS.
I never used STOS and AMOS but they were famous in the history of game language.
Quote from: MikeHart on June 11, 2021, 14:19:46
The last commit on its BitBucket was in 2019. Fair to say that it might be dead already, but who knows.
Thanks for telling us.
Quote from: Pakz on June 11, 2021, 18:33:08
Stress on a project like this can not be that good for that.
Oh...I see.
Quote from: chalky on June 11, 2021, 10:45:48
I'm guessing this is a new version of 'AMOS 2' which was half-started around 3 years ago but then seemingly got dropped (or at least Francois Lionet seemed to stop developing/posting-about-it after a few months)? I'm pretty sure the promotion blurb in his [Francois Lionet's] promotional emails stated that the product created Javascript code which could be used by players on various operating systems.
The information is in detail. Thanks.
QuoteI loved AMOS too (and AMOS3D & AMOS Pro - though the 'Interface' system of the latter [for which I bought it] was incredbly buggy) and spent a lot of hours coding in it until I discovered Blitz Basic for Amiga, after which I never looked back.
AMOS and Blitz Basic looked liked good competitors to each other.
Quote
It will be interesting to see whether AOZ develops into a fully fledged product (I cannot work out from the website whether Francois Lionet is still actively involved) or ends up going the same way as 'AMOS 2'...
Sure.
François Lionet continued AMOS2 which has been renamed to AOZ Studio.
He is actively working on it, the product is nearly ready to be released, tested in school, etc. !
François is not alone on the product, he works on it with several persons now, you certainly know Laurant Weill.
AOZ is compatible with STOS/AMOS and is incredible... A lot of work has been done, and cool things are planned for the future.
You can have info on the facebook group "AOZ Studio", or on the Discord channel "AOZ Studio".
Yes I have fond memories of STOS too. You could get animated sprites moving about in no time.
https://www.aoz.studio/the-aoz-story
Quote from: Sandorfal on June 16, 2021, 10:10:38
François Lionet continued AMOS2 which has been renamed to AOZ Studio.
He is actively working on it, the product is nearly ready to be released, tested in school, etc. !
François is not alone on the product, he works on it with several persons now, you certainly know Laurant Weill.
AOZ is compatible with STOS/AMOS and is incredible... A lot of work has been done, and cool things are planned for the future.
You can have info on the facebook group "AOZ Studio", or on the Discord channel "AOZ Studio".
Cool and I wish everyone behind this that it will get some kind of community. The discord channel looks like most of them are from the STOS / AMOS days.
Back then STOS and AMOS brought something almost unique to the dev scene.
But this transpiling concept and targeting several platforms that AOZ is doing, is no new one.
Monkey, Monkey X, Monkey 2, Cerberus X, Wonkey, GlBasic, BlitzMax NG, Blitz3D NG, Haxe, etc. etc did it before and some are still doing it.
I hope they don't rely and hope for a huge commercial success because that simply won't happen. I would bet on that. The ones who have a commercial programming language out there are struggling because to many tools are available for free.
Anyway, good luck. Will watch it from far.
François Lionet has said it was going to be free unless you're a company or school wishing to use it, Mike.
You can choose between versions of AOZ studio: a free licence with AOZ studio advertising and no support or a paid version without advertising and no royalties for any program you create (2-year licence for 89 € or monthly license for 9 € per month):
https://www.aoz.studio/download (https://www.aoz.studio/download)
Quote
You can choose between versions of AOZ studio: a free licence with AOZ studio advertising and no support or a paid version without advertising and no royalties for any program you create (2-year licence for 89 € or monthly license for 9 € per month):
https://www.aoz.studio/download
I was just going on what François Lionet had said when it was AMOS 2. Interesting, advertising and no support for the free version. I wonder what no support is exactly? Is support personal one on one support, or access to a forum of some kind? I guess the former.
[edit]
It seems the free version does not allow you to share your programs with anyone - only you can use the programs you create.
Quote from: MikeHart on June 16, 2021, 13:02:21
I hope they don't rely and hope for a huge commercial success because that simply won't happen. I would bet on that. The ones who have a commercial programming language out there are struggling because to many tools are available for free.
I think AOZ can have a nice commercial success, because it is not one more tool, but it contains already all the good stuff that people loved + new good stuff.
And one big thing I think, is that they want to keep it as simple as in the old days when you just turned on the machine and just typed "print".
This is what people are waiting for !
OK there are many tools and free, but for a non-professional it is nearly impossible just to install or use them, don't you think ?
François and Laurant want to let a child just type print and say OOHHH :)
QuoteThis is what people are waiting for !
Well, they exist already.
QuoteOK there are many tools and free, but for a non-professional it is nearly impossible just to install or use them, don't you think ?
Some are difficult to set up, some are not.
Like I said, I wish them all the best, but I don't think there is much of a commercial market anymore for coding based game dev tools these days.
QuoteFrançois and Laurant want to let a child just type print and say OOHHH
hmm i type
print x,y,"Hello "then i say OOHHH :o
..just a joke but i can agree with Mike ..all best.
I think Mike is being completely down beat and negative on this one. He's in the game himself, so why waste your time if you think there is no point??
For me personally I don't like any of the offerings out there. Massive engines that are purely driven towards big game development teams, over complicated and bloated in every way. Based around an ever bloated general language...Or a menu heavy inefficient system. Or totally old school and a company trying to juggle several products with a horrible syntax from their language.
Quote from: Steve Elliott on June 16, 2021, 22:48:06
I think Mike is being completely down beat and negative on this one. He's in the game himself, so why waste your time if you think there is no point??
For me personally I don't like any of the offerings out there. Massive engines that are purely driven towards big game development teams, over complicated and bloated in every way. Based around an ever bloated general language...Or a menu heavy inefficient system. Or totally old school and a company trying to juggle several products with a horrible syntax from their language.
Steve, sometimes you do things just for the pure fun it gives you. And if CX wouldn't exist, I see no other solution that would fit my needs.
If you think developing game dev tools for a living will provide you with enough income to support you full-time, then by all means, go for it.
From my experience which I have collected since 2017 with CX and other tools since the beginning of 2000, i rather would bet on providing services around it, like books, assets, courses. Sometimes you get offers to work work on projects for others. That kind of stuff.
There is a reason commercial game dev languages went out of business or their development came to a halt.
Even the last one, AGK is imho struggling. If it would be a valuable business, they would put their dev focus on it and not having it on life support like it is now. But yeah, just my 2 cents.
I think that in a lot of respects Mike is correct (in that):
1. selling a programming tool will not make too much money
2. but offering some form of paid asset download/integration will make huge amounts of cash (if done right)
I think the asset store is the only reason that unity continues to exist
The real beast(s) in the room are Unreal with its' amazing rendering pipeline and Godot which continues to impress.
I do feel that AGK is playing catchup in some respects. And yes for some programming is the fun bit - the end result maybe not so important...
How you work is dependant on yourself - be it menu driven, language based or drag-drop. there is product for you somewhere out there...
Personally I was never too fond of Amos at the time (finding it limiting for what I was doing) compared to GFA on the Amiga. But it comes down to how far you can push the system. I wish them all the success. Competition is always good as it pokes other devs forward...
The current Godot, I am not impressed with it for 3d at all. Running their feature 3d Demo, the robot in that factory kinda invironment gave my system a lot of graphic errors and was skipping frames a lot. Particle effects didn't show up. I don't have this problem with games or Unity on my Maschine. The 3d part is seriously bad. So far everyone is hyping the jump to Vulcan there. But if Godot needs that powerhouse under the hood to give decent results, I wonder if the design is fundamental flawed.
What I don't find convincing is that they already have announced that their funding is running out in 6 months and then development has to be cut down.
If someone wants to start with Godot now, I would wait at least another year to see how it turns out.
Unity is the market leader. The huge community and the asset store gives them a huge advantage.
Business wise they want to get more into the visualization and movie business where UE is the powerhouse. I think these 2 companies make their money with that the most.
Not the small indie devs.
But at the end, it comes to what each individual prefers.
There will be people who will love AOZ, that's for sure.
Since both names AGK Studio and AOZ Studio are so similar , a lot of consumers compare both products naturally.
In the future , the competition between these two products may be very, very tough!