SyntaxBomb - Indie Coders

General Category => Worklogs => Topic started by: iWasAdam on January 29, 2019, 08:45:01 AM

Title: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on January 29, 2019, 08:45:01 AM
It looks like I'm going for the spectrum version with enhanced 128k sound  ::)

First off is to attempt some (2 color per 8x8) images - which is a lot (bloody) harder then I thought...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/screenshot-2019-01-29-at-08.39.24.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on January 29, 2019, 10:44:08 AM
Quote
First off is to attempt some (2 color per 8x8) images - which is a lot (bloody) harder then I thought...

As far as I can see that technical restriction is optional.  Just the look and feel of games produced by the computer chosen, with a fixed palette of colours.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on January 29, 2019, 11:46:37 AM
First off is to attempt some (2 color per 8x8) images - which is a lot (bloody) harder then I thought...
Yeah, not easy or easy to do it fast :P - but as Steve says, it’s not a requirement to emulate the hardware but just the overall look and feel :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on January 29, 2019, 12:55:09 PM
Yep. I know, but I like a bit of a challenge :)
And I always wanted to make a Spectrum game, but never finished anything. Back in the day I was working on a machine code sprite system - then I had to leave home and that was it...

So this could be my nod back in time   8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on January 29, 2019, 02:54:40 PM
yay a logo (and a bit of the title screen):
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/screenshot-2019-01-29-at-14.52.50.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on January 29, 2019, 06:13:02 PM
I guess you're not going down the route of max 2 colours in an 8x8 grid?.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on January 29, 2019, 07:40:17 PM
I guess you're not going down the route of max 2 colours in an 8x8 grid?.

Looking at that logo, I think he actually is. It's possibly made up of 8*8 pixel UDG's - user defined graphics. If you laid it on grid paper then I don't think he's broken the 2 colour rule.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on January 29, 2019, 08:49:37 PM
Quote
Looking at that logo, I think he actually is. It's possibly made up of 8*8 pixel UDG's - user defined graphics. If you laid it on grid paper then I don't think he's broken the 2 colour rule.
I did overlay an 8x8 grid and tried different pixels as origin but it didn't appear to be that way. Not that it matters as it's not a requirement anyway :P
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on January 30, 2019, 06:20:31 AM
8x8 2 color. all checked and present  :P the pic above was just a snip - so not starting at the 0,0 origin.

Here's the same with the 8x8 grid overlay showing:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/screenshot-2019-01-30-at-06.22.06.png)

Its the top right bit of the screen. Can you find the (current) mistake in it though?

And todays head-scratcher is how do I load and display a modern png with loading bars using the spectrum mono interleaved bitmap reveal and separate color attributes?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Holzchopf on January 30, 2019, 07:31:38 AM
Can you find the (current) mistake in it though?

Assuming the tile in the top left, that is half cut, marks (0,0), then one mistake is at (3,3) and one at (5,4) :P

Just a thought: If only two colours are used and one of them is black, wouldn't it be reasonably fast to first draw the sprites in black/white and then multiply blend overlay the 8x8 pixels coloured blocks? I mean "reasonably fast" for the ultimate retro feeling.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: DaiHard on January 30, 2019, 08:47:08 AM
There's also a problem with the knotwork: two consecutive underpasses in the top right!
 ;)
D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on January 30, 2019, 11:12:07 AM
Its the top right bit of the screen. Can you find the (current) mistake in it though?
As Holzchopf points out a couple in the grid have more than two colours :o - Also some of the simulated pixels are different heights. Not that it really matters :P
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on January 30, 2019, 11:25:15 AM
Quote
As Holzchopf points out a couple in the grid have more than two colours :o - Also some of the simulated pixels are different heights. Not that it really matters :P

I predict Adam ends up rocking back n forth in a corner after a mental breakdown.   ;)

Simple 'look and feel' for the win \o/
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on January 30, 2019, 12:08:22 PM
sub pixel stretching (where some lines of pixels up/down maybe slightly different sizes) is something I'm not going to bang my head about. It's something that can be fixed by exact window sizes / 8, but the sacrifices user ability to stretch the window how they want.  ;D

The key thing is the actual pixel resolution is EXACT, just the scaling that brings artefacts - lol. Yep I'm waiting for Derron to start picking on the pixel differences...

I've got the initial loading stuff sorted now. Next up is finishing some sound stuff - I don't have load save routines written yet, so I need to get them sorted, or it's gonna be very quiet!

For Qube (who was interested to see what I would come up with)
Sound will be provided by the QasarBeach Sound sub-system. This is the first public outing of the sound system |I was working on last year.

The sound will replicate the AY-3-8912A (the TI sound chip the 128k used). This was a 3 voice chip with ability to mix a noise channel into the 3 voices. So all sounds will be 3 voice only with envelope and base waveforms (pulse, triangle, sawtooth - these will be loaded as predefined waveforms).

I've been doing some research on the capabilities of the sound chip and also how it directly sounds in games and (yes there was one for the spectrum) a sound tracker - no samples, just the ability to modify the sounds playing live.

So there wont be any samples of sounds, just the QasarBeach doing it all live - yikes!

Currently I'm looking at replicating the loading and data sounds from the data cassettes. fun fun fun....!

And for Qube... Here's QasarBeach UI for creating a single waveform (this is the UI, QasarBeach is sitting underneath all of this)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/screenshot-2019-01-31-at-06.11.37.png)

Big prize for anyone who can work out what QasarBeach is replicating.... (hint: It all began in 1978)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on January 30, 2019, 03:29:31 PM
Nah,no point in going all mad getting exact pixel madness. QasarBeach UI looks funky spectrum retro :P does it plugin to DAW’s like a VST or have you coded your own music maker?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on January 31, 2019, 06:18:21 AM
VST - good lordy no.  :o It's completely stand-alone and realtime.
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/screenshot-2019-01-31-at-06.07.56.png)
I've been a busy little bunny...

Here's a pic of the original 1981 version:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/pager.jpg)  :D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on January 31, 2019, 06:32:38 AM
Quote
VST - good lordy no.  :o It's completely stand-alone and realtime.
Oo, nice one, you've written your own music maker :) Are you planning on releasing it or keeping it for internal usage?

I wrote a music app in C64 BASIC which if I remember involved a lot of poke commands. As you can imagine it was very slow and had no real timing beyond the speed at which BASIC ran at. I remember being all impressed as that was the first app that I gave a multi coloured sprite as a logo :))
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on January 31, 2019, 07:30:38 AM
Yep it will be released, but it's not a simple thing to get your head around as it does things it's own way - but it's super flexible.
The original was a multiprocessor design with individual outputs and I've tried as faithfully as I can to replicate the way it operated. I've been in touch with the original designers and also with the current people who repair them to make sure everything should be familiar to the current (hardware) users.

It's a very different way of coding. The original was light-pen driven with text commands. and I've needed to create a real-time system that replicates the commands.
It is cool that sequences play in the background while you are browsing for new sounds - so you can test stuff as it's playing as it's auto loading, edit on the fly, etc.

Gawd - Adding app icons is a pain in the Butt.  >:(
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on January 31, 2019, 07:37:55 AM
Heres the main index page: :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/screenshot-2019-01-31-at-07.33.09.png)

It can be completely mouse operated, but also has command input. and can use either, in any order at any time!

I've also added some extensive sound support features so you can load almost any sounds from the Amiga onwards along with Roland, Yamaha, EMU, PPG, Akai, Korg, etc
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on January 31, 2019, 03:10:38 PM
Back to the game itself.
I've got a working HUD:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/screenshot2019-01-31at15.08.34.png)

Shows score, keycards and health
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 02, 2019, 07:49:48 AM
First attempt: :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-02-at-07.47.24.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: MrmediamanX on February 02, 2019, 10:14:53 AM
Very cool ... kinda reminds me of digiloi.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on February 02, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
First attempt: :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-02-at-07.47.24.png)
Are all the foreground graphic done with the charset alone? :o
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 03, 2019, 07:35:54 AM
unfortunately... yes!

It's a variation of the IBM/commodore font:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-03-at-07.31.24.png)

So in theory, I could drop the colors and just have mono graphics.

the font is 8x8pixels per character, so fits with the spectrum perfectly :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on February 03, 2019, 07:54:37 AM
unfortunately... yes!
Thats so cool and very clever ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 03, 2019, 08:38:54 AM
 8) ooo, thank you for that...
It sort makes things easy in one way and difficult in others.
Graphics are chunky, but have a nice feel to them
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 03, 2019, 08:57:22 AM
Just had a brilliant thought. Whats 3071? It's a counter. It starts at 3071 and ticks down...

Maybe it's a bomb?

Maybe the screen is parallax too?
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-03-at-12.46.46.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on February 04, 2019, 01:37:30 AM
Quote
Just had a brilliant thought. Whats 3071? It's a counter. It starts at 3071 and ticks down...

Maybe it's a bomb?
3071 seconds to complete the game :o - I look forward to an action packed 51 minutes and 18 seconds of gameplay ;D

Quote
Maybe the screen is parallax too?
Ya gotta have parallax scrolling in a shooter, it's the golden rule of 8-bit :P - Nice dithering work on the background.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on February 04, 2019, 07:03:49 AM
I can't believe you're actually building your main char out of built-in character blocks. Very clever - and even harder to do back then than it is now. You had to store whatever character block was behind each of the objects own characters so you could write them back again after it moved. That's why C64 owners loved sprites.
 
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on February 04, 2019, 07:18:52 AM
Why not start at 3071 ... and the parallax background has 4 layers. Movement does adjust the 4 numbers at different speed (according to the parallax layer depth).
So first number is slowest and once it reached all numbers the first time, the last (4th) number already reached theirs 4 times (or more).

In a level you need to first find the "code" and fight "securty mechanisms" (enemies). Once you have the code you have to go back in the level until you reach the right position. There you can use your item and open the "safe" or stop a bomb or whatever.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 04, 2019, 12:03:56 PM
First parallax test animation - with clock countdown:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/3071-1.gif)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on February 04, 2019, 05:03:17 PM
The bottom line seems to be in a world of it's own? Is there some kind of other function for this or will it be scrolling with the rest of the screen?

Love how you've made it a block scroller so you can simulate speed on the Spectrum. Having a pixel scroll at rapid speed would have been very unlikely on the original hardware if it had this much going on. Especially in parallax. Great work.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 05, 2019, 08:33:16 AM
I toyed with a pixel scroller for the background, but the block scroller worked just as well  :D

I've been busy trying to think about how the story and enemies etc all fit together and come up with a simple hook.

So I've thought about the undead/mechanics and 'ghosts n ghouls" as a sort of base concept.

I have a feeling that this little chap wont stay quiet in his grave for long....
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-05-at-08.30.40.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 08, 2019, 07:07:58 AM
not much progress, but I have got a jewel and a chest now. so at least there will be something to collect along the way...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-08-at-07.05.36.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on February 09, 2019, 05:36:40 AM
not much progress, but I have got a jewel and a chest now. so at least there will be something to collect along the way...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-08-at-07.05.36.png)
Looks like the chest flips up to become a desk with an old CRT monitor ;D - Mind you that looks a whole load better than what I drew today which was so bad I secure erased it for 30 minutes to get rid of the evidence ::)

I have a feeling that this little chap wont stay quiet in his grave for long....
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-05-at-08.30.40.png)
Do like those char based graphics, the old geek in me just loves things like that. They must be great fun to create or really driving you nuts to do? :P
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: GaborD on February 09, 2019, 05:46:49 AM
Looks like the chest flips up to become a desk with an old CRT monitor ;D

Multifunctional storage appliances are all the rage nowadays.

On a more serious note, this looks very promising. Captures the "good old days"-vibe.
And that clock countdown effect is great!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 09, 2019, 07:48:41 AM
Well. I'm trying - hehehe

But the old school monitor comment gave me a thought:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-09-at-07.42.03.png)

As for the font itself. I've just about run out of character to play with:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-09-at-07.42.21.png)
I sacrificed the lower case characters for a few added graphics. but thats it! (I can post the actual fontsprite png if you want?)

TBH it's a bit of a brain scratch at times. But once you get in the flow it's kinda fun to have both hands tied behind your back and still come up with the goods... (whilst trying to get the sequencer to make a sound as well)

Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on February 09, 2019, 08:49:46 AM
If you made the "steps" steeper then you could get rid of some chars - as you need less characters from "bottom to top".

A pity you can't render chars mirrored/rotated as you would get rid of all these "duplicates".


I do not know the system - but can you render the character multiple times / on top of each other? If done properly you could use the "_.-'"-line-steps to "subtract" from a "block" character to simulate the characters whith the "cut out"-line-steps ?!


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on February 09, 2019, 09:16:41 AM
Oh, my, good looking work!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 16, 2019, 12:05:10 PM
not much to show atm.  :o
I've been working hard on the sound side of things (the other big project I'm working on).

Good news is the sequencer part seems to work now and even allows realtime recording of notes along with correct note length. Not really game related. but it's big for me  8)

But on the game front I have been mulling things over about how to approach the basic gameplay:
There will be 3 levels (i hope). you might need to go left/right on some levels and possibly u/down as well?
Maybe there is some form of transport as well?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 23, 2019, 12:37:20 PM
Still no game update as working on sound stuff.  :-[

But the update on the sound front is... TADA
each sound now has a set of control parameters, these can (finally) be loaded and saved, and also done as a complete 'data block' that has everything in a single file including sound!

Next up will be to load and save sequences and add them to the sound pack and I'm done!

And I'm hearing a 'But WTF is it all about?'
The quick answer is "It's a completely real-time programmable 16 voice synth (in mono or stereo, or create it's own stereo fields) that can emulate anything from chip-sounds through samples and mangle and create new sounds from nothing and... and.... and....'

Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on February 23, 2019, 04:05:12 PM
Nice to hear you've got it complete, I expect a full on glorious 8-bit beep beep toot toot soundtrack ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: MrmediamanX on February 23, 2019, 05:35:37 PM
Holy dang man ... for real? Mp3's and ogg's would have been just fine as far as sound tracks go.
But all & all that's some commitment right there.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 24, 2019, 08:19:18 AM
Quote
Nice to hear you've got it complete
still got some issues  :-X and the song load/save to get working, but more or less :)

Quote
Holy dang man ... for real?
Yep, been a bit of a struggle, but it's starting to work :)

If you're really interested, then do a quick google for 'Fairlight CMI IIx' and you'll get all the details.
The software is a complete recreation of this down to the UI and full sequencer and command system. It's not like the Arturia CMI V - which just plays back. This recreates the entire workflow - and then expands on it (whilst keeping the same concepts as the original).
(I've been in constant touch with some of the original engineers for a while to get their thought and suggestions)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 25, 2019, 09:00:48 AM
Not sure what's going on here... But it kinda looks like sabreman has broken out of 2d into isometric?
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-25-at-08.59.02.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 25, 2019, 10:23:10 AM
WTF? lol.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: GaborD on February 25, 2019, 12:39:36 PM
  :o
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 25, 2019, 12:46:57 PM
But what is Sabreman doing behind all those plants?  ::)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-25-at-12.44.01.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 25, 2019, 01:50:55 PM
So you've changed to a Sabre Wulf remake in isometric form?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 25, 2019, 02:06:06 PM
Yep, the ascii thing was great, but didn't get me tingling in the right way.

I've got an idea for this, that I think could have some sparkle and also be something that people would be interested in? I could be wrong though - LOL

Think of this as the missing link between Sabrewulf, AtikAtack, and Knightlore

I'm keeping to the palette, but 'currently' going down a more multi-color sprite approach. but it will have the same resolution. More 'Spectrum Next' methinks...

But, you never know...  :P
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-25-at-12.44.02.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 25, 2019, 02:25:54 PM
Sounds good.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on February 25, 2019, 04:26:40 PM
Think it looks awesome - mean the pixel art alone. Limited "vibrant colors" always suit well to "flowers/plants" with their colorful blossoms.


> But what is Sabreman doing behind all those plants?
Peeping Joe or taking a "break" ;-)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on February 25, 2019, 05:44:03 PM
> But what is Sabreman doing behind all those plants?

Looks to me like he's having a shi....... oh, kettle's boiled ;-)

How far did you get with the Ascii thing then Adam? I was interested to see how that was going to go.

Brave man dumping and starting something new halfway through the compo...
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: MrmediamanX on February 25, 2019, 07:27:09 PM
Wait ... wait ... wait, Remake was a no no from what I remember, but a pseudo sequel is totally ok.
Busting out the old switch a roo ... I was about to do the same but held back ... my bad for the image in advance.
*also has krakout playing in the background*
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: STEVIE G on February 25, 2019, 07:34:11 PM
Brave man changing it up with a month to go  :o

I knew I'd seen this kinda look before ... was this your inspiration?

http://www.indieretronews.com/2019/02/the-mystery-of-yaswr-jungle-ultimate.html#more (http://www.indieretronews.com/2019/02/the-mystery-of-yaswr-jungle-ultimate.html#more)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 25, 2019, 07:54:53 PM
Quote
Wait ... wait ... wait, Remake was a no no from what I remember, but a pseudo sequel is totally ok.

I knew I'd seen this kinda look before ... was this your inspiration?

To be fair it does look like an exact remake thus far, all-be-it from a different angle.  Maybe Adam will change it up later.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: MrmediamanX on February 25, 2019, 08:29:33 PM
err ... ahhh hmmmm ... it's like ya know but well ... you knew but you know kinda like.
... "knight lore" but ya know ...  ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on February 26, 2019, 03:35:40 AM
Holy crap balls, you're starting a fresh this many weeks in? :o
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 26, 2019, 07:27:52 AM
hmmm, isometric sliding engine, collision and contact ????
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: MrmediamanX on February 26, 2019, 07:34:14 AM
 :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 27, 2019, 12:27:14 PM
sorted  8)

Sing along to an old venusian lullaby:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-27-at-12.24.35.png)
a-rune, a-rune, a-rune, a-rune...
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Naughty Alien on February 27, 2019, 12:50:06 PM
sorted  8)

Sing along to an old venusian lullaby:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-27-at-12.24.35.png)
a-rune, a-rune, a-rune, a-rune...

..looks like a miner smurf..  ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on February 27, 2019, 05:20:56 PM
Come one guys. How many of you remember this?


Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on February 28, 2019, 12:57:04 PM
how very dare you!!!  :P

Got a single room sorted...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2019-02-28-at-12.55.11.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: MrmediamanX on February 28, 2019, 04:21:26 PM
very cool ... were does 3071 fit in? :P
speaking of which, what do plan on naming the game?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: round157 on February 28, 2019, 04:24:59 PM


Got a single room sorted...


Hello, this game looks like a quite good isometric game!

Is this game also being developed with MX2(a Monkey2 fork)?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 28, 2019, 04:49:06 PM
Looks excellent.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on February 28, 2019, 05:13:21 PM
very cool ... were does 3071 fit in? :P

Knowing Adam, he probably plans to have 3071 screens in the game ;-)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on February 28, 2019, 10:08:38 PM
3071 B.C.
3+0+7+1 = 11 - a prime number
30-71 - maybe the height/width of the hat/helmet
307(-1) - "temporarily moved" http code (maybe a hint for "time travel" and the 1 is saying: first)
3071 days the adventurer is lost in the prehistoric world until a rescue team will come to help him
3071 in "leet" translates to "eoti" - end of time.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 28, 2019, 10:28:10 PM
Either way it's a complete remake (against the rules).

But once again, I'm sure Adam will mix it up graphics-wise.  At least change the main character.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: therevills on February 28, 2019, 11:09:03 PM
I remember this little guy from Knights Lore... I didnt know he was part of a series.

Looks great! I've always liked the look of the isometric games, batman, knights lore, head over heels etc :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on February 28, 2019, 11:27:25 PM
Either way it's a complete remake (against the rules).

But once again, I'm sure Adam will mix it up graphics-wise.  At least change the main character.

But is it a complete remake if he's changed from top down to isometric, improved the Graphics/Sound and possibly the game has a puzzle element that's completely different to the original Sabre Wulf? Surely then he's making a kind of unofficial sequel to the game really?

Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 01, 2019, 07:34:26 AM
Yep. I had to go and check on this one:  ::)
Quote
11.. No remakes allowed. Sequels are allowed but the game must be clearly original and not a copy with different levels.

It's definitely NOT a remake, taking the original character and shifting the whole concept from 2d to isometric. Even then main character graphics are not the same, but the same style as the original.

As said before think of this as the missing link between "Atik Atak", "SabreWulf" and "KnightLore"
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-01-at-07.31.30.png)
 ;)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: STEVIE G on March 01, 2019, 08:07:22 AM
Yep. I had to go and check on this one:  ::)
Quote
11.. No remakes allowed. Sequels are allowed but the game must be clearly original and not a copy with different levels.

It's definitely NOT a remake, taking the original character and shifting the whole concept from 2d to isometric. Even then main character graphics are not the same, but the same style as the original.

As said before think of this as the missing link between "Atik Atak", "SabreWulf" and "KnightLore"
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-01-at-07.31.30.png)
 ;)

The main character graphics are not the same, other than a bit of colour?  ;)

(https://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/101025-knight-lore-zx-spectrum-screenshot-one-of-the-many-rooms.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 01, 2019, 08:28:29 AM
maybe a base map to work with:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-01-at-08.21.33.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 01, 2019, 11:38:47 AM
Exactly Stevie G lol.   ::)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 01, 2019, 02:28:47 PM
Well, my main initial thoughts were, wow, very knight lore esque. I see what you mean about the main character graphics, and the notion it's slotting in between existing games.... So not a remake, if the main character was modified to say have a pointy hat... That's do it. But.... Hey, were doing this for fun, and straight away I was impressed with his efforts, but the character may need to be a little more.... Original? Good work anyways.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 01, 2019, 03:18:37 PM
ok,ok,ok.....  :o

Pith helmet gone and cowel now added (and not the Simon variety)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-01-at-15.32.05.png)
Maybe the character takes of the cowel and there's something 'else' underneath???
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 01, 2019, 08:11:52 PM
Marvellous.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: GaborD on March 01, 2019, 08:30:36 PM
The new char looks great
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 01, 2019, 11:00:17 PM
I didn't consider it a remake. Just an unofficial follow up in the series but the cowl definitely gives it more of an individual identity now - I think it's better. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: therevills on March 02, 2019, 12:48:44 AM
Just remembered the other isometric game I use to play a lot: Gunfright!

The main character in Gunfright also looks a lot like the one from Knight Lore too:




Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 02, 2019, 12:55:45 AM
Quote
I didn't consider it a remake. Just an unofficial follow up in the series but the cowl definitely gives it more of an individual identity now

Seriously?  The main character was a complete copy of the Spectrum classic with 2 extra colours added as Stevie showed.  Adam's changed it now so all's good.  Looking like a great competition entry.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 02, 2019, 01:34:24 AM
Quote
I didn't consider it a remake. Just an unofficial follow up in the series but the cowl definitely gives it more of an individual identity now

Seriously?  The main character was a complete copy of the Spectrum classic with 2 extra colours added as Stevie showed.  Adam's changed it now so all's good.  Looking like a great competition entry.

Yes. Even the change to isometric for something in the vein of Sabre Wulf made the difference. I agree that directly remaking a game is pointless - especially with the same graphics. Making something in the vein/spirit of the original with enough changes to make it a good game in its own right and, more importantly, a challenge to put together, is a worthwhile entry.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 02, 2019, 09:28:48 AM
Exciting stuff, interesting to see what happens with the cowl of....  8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 02, 2019, 10:45:19 AM
ok, more work....

Name changed to "Viva-Mortis 3071"  :o
main character has undergone a bit more work...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-02-at-10.40.30.png)

And he does take the cowel off...
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 02, 2019, 11:06:53 AM
His arms are "thin as bones" ... hope the "Walking Death" does not hurt the environmental flora and fauna - just the bad guys who want to cut the trees, kidnap the apes and feed the parrots with alcohol-stuffed berries.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 02, 2019, 12:41:01 PM
ok, now for a shot of what was...  :-[
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/oldtitle.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 02, 2019, 12:54:33 PM
A pink-colored cannon fodder would have suited to that title shot too :)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 04, 2019, 02:55:32 PM
Holy crap - STAIRS!  ;D
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-04-at-14.52.36.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 04, 2019, 04:28:17 PM
Still looks like "little Death" to me - including skull-mace ;-)

@ stairs
look intruiging. Hope it plays well.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 04, 2019, 05:55:30 PM
Holy crap - STAIRS!  ;D
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-04-at-14.52.36.png)
Stairs to nowhere, he's gonna die!!! - Looks really good :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 04, 2019, 06:00:31 PM
Yes looks very good.  Any particular reason it's all gone grey, gameplay feature?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 04, 2019, 09:25:26 PM
Very Rasputin esque graphics, so much quality in this competition. It'll be a toughie too judge!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 05, 2019, 01:45:37 PM
had to google for Rasputin  ;D

I think it was the last games I got for the Spectrum (back in the day). It looked great but played terrible - very difficult to control and work out where you were (depth wise)

Mapping started now with different areas: ::)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-05-at-14.44.48.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 05, 2019, 10:02:44 PM
Yeah, it did look great, the game play was soooo frustrating though! And if I recall, Rasputin was single colours, not the colourful Ness you've presented :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 05, 2019, 10:34:58 PM
Looking good :) I like the look of both the colourful one and the grey one.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Naughty Alien on March 06, 2019, 03:07:01 PM

(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-05-at-14.44.48.png)

..i must be very tired after whole day messing with factory, so forgive me, but is this looks like some demonic smurf walking trough area surrounded by penises..lol ?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 06, 2019, 03:16:44 PM
Quote
walking trough area surrounded by penises

PMSL!  ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: GaborD on March 06, 2019, 05:56:38 PM
 :))
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 06, 2019, 06:08:56 PM
..i must be very tired after whole day messing with factory, so forgive me, but is this looks like some demonic smurf walking trough area surrounded by penises..lol ?

I can't look at this picture without seeing that now !!!!  :-X
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 07, 2019, 04:14:31 AM
Quote
..i must be very tired after whole day messing with factory, so forgive me, but is this looks like some demonic smurf walking trough area surrounded by penises..lol ?
Don't tell me, the blue arches also represent a...

Children the lot of you, you should be ashamed at attributing structures to genitalia. Absolute idiotic behaviour and I can not .... Hang on, Oh yeah, retro dick pick :)) :)) :))

iWasAdam, did you do that on purpose? :P
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 07, 2019, 05:21:18 AM
..... Arches representing a crevice between the old shoulder boulders, inverted obviously! :D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 07, 2019, 06:09:40 AM
and..... it's gone!!!!
Puppies!  8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 07, 2019, 07:33:10 AM
Peek-a-BOO!  :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-07-at-07.31.09.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 07, 2019, 12:15:14 PM
in true Spectrum color....  8)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-07-at-12.12.22.png)

need to modify the MX2 source to allow for custom shader in base 2d image. the mono (spectrum) look is actually a quick shader ;)
Also means I now don't have to worry about graphics. the shader just eats to color correctly and I can re-use everything - yay!!!

And... The first one to say "BOOBIES!", get's slapped stupid. They're EYES!  MR. De-Ath is watching you
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Naughty Alien on March 07, 2019, 03:05:14 PM

(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-07-at-12.12.22.png)

..i see tities now...lol...that red thing..
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 07, 2019, 04:15:09 PM
Do Adam's games need an 18 rating?   ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: MrmediamanX on March 08, 2019, 01:26:49 AM
nice ... after a tad bit research, I never realise just how popular the saber wolf/knightlore/attic attack series was.
it even got GBA remake/sequel, even afew for pc.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Naughty Alien on March 08, 2019, 02:01:14 AM
Do Adam's games need an 18 rating?   ;D

..lool..nahh..its me man .. his games are fine  ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 08, 2019, 02:47:34 AM
Do Adam's games need an 18 rating?   ;D
With you lot commenting on pixel phallic resemblances then yeah :P

Great work on the skeleton hand and making the tiles on the walls look 3D. Pretty amazing the effect a few pixels in low-res can do.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: GaborD on March 08, 2019, 03:49:51 AM
Agree to that, looks really great for the strict limitations.
A few pixels can seem like so many.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 08, 2019, 07:50:14 AM
I can recall even making my own hand drawn knightlore map, these graphics really take me back and are most certainly a fine example of 8 bit tastic Ness!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 08, 2019, 08:07:31 AM
it's all sorta slowly coming together. loads still to do.
now how about a trapdoor... animated?
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-08-at-06.09.12.png) 8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 08, 2019, 02:28:00 PM
TimeCapsule... I LOVE YOU  :-*

Working on graphics and just realised I had been saving them with the wrong name, so all previous graphics were overwritten!!!

Hit TimeCapsule and go back a day and could instantly restore without a hitch... PHEW!!!!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: GaborD on March 08, 2019, 04:45:52 PM
Now that's a scare you don't need in the middle of a time constrained project.
Great that you could recover everything!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 08, 2019, 07:27:11 PM
TimeCapsule... I LOVE YOU  :-*

Working on graphics and just realised I had been saving them with the wrong name, so all previous graphics were overwritten!!!

Hit TimeCapsule and go back a day and could instantly restore without a hitch... PHEW!!!!
I've been glad of my Airport Extreme a few times over the years too. Although I back up regularly I found that Time Machine has been invaluable for those silly face palm moments.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 08, 2019, 07:51:40 PM
Glad you didn't lose ya project graphics!   :o

As a photographer and part time coder I'm paranoid of losing images/code.  Coding-wise I always back up when I've completed a piece of work.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 09, 2019, 05:31:40 AM
Animated trap door, in Speccy graphics, blooming Nora that is some impressive stuff! Made a knight rider Idea in blitz 3d a while ago with an articulated truck whose trailer had a tailgate that's good down letting you drive your car in, but that's Blitz3D. This is one helluva contender, this compo has some amazing entries, indie coders still rule, especially here at Syntax bomb.  8) :o :D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 09, 2019, 08:57:24 AM
Mr De-Ath has something to say to Mortis...  :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-09-at-08.55.44.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 09, 2019, 10:18:11 AM
Pixelated perfection there my friend!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 09, 2019, 12:37:10 PM
Wait till it animates  ;D

ok. So why would Mr De-Ath want to make an appearance?

To tell you what to do... (now i've pixeled a nice font)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-09-at-12.34.41.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 09, 2019, 12:50:45 PM
and once more in glorious Spectrum color:  8)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-09-at-12.49.32.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 10, 2019, 07:10:33 AM
Finished the key/gate logic puzzle  :D
It's very simple, but random. so you can't predict where the key will be - but it's very near.

I think that is going to be the only puzzle. the rest will be hunt and kill. or maybe not?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 10, 2019, 11:08:20 AM
learning the benefit of thick black borders  ::)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-10-at-11.06.33.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 10, 2019, 12:26:28 PM
Things I noted:
- boobies seem to be gone
- shadows are mixed:
- - corner pillar have sometimes shadow as if sun comes from "north east" and sometimes as if it comes from "north east"
- - doors/gates have sometimes shadow as if sun comes from "north east" and sometimes as if it comes from "north west"
- - door and corner shadows differ (eg the top-right-pillar and the door-to-the-right)

Think the reason for the gate shadow is the small "area" for shadows leading to less visible "brick"-lines ?

PS: in case you missed it: boobies seem to be gone!


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Naughty Alien on March 10, 2019, 01:35:48 PM
..lol..
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 10, 2019, 01:58:57 PM
Yep, DD now replaced with an A cup!

noted about the shadows, it because I am reusing and reversing some of the graphics. so only one upright thing, one doorframe, etc
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 11, 2019, 10:58:14 AM
Ay Yi Yi... Viva Mortis and the cowel comes off!
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-11-at-10.56.08.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 11, 2019, 11:20:29 AM
Does not look as cute anymore ;-)

Maybe try to decrease width of his jawbone? Else it looks like the skull of Jaws / Richard Kiel in 007 - Moonraker


Your game title reminds me that I still have to watch this little pixar movie ;-)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 11, 2019, 11:57:29 AM
noted and sorted :)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-11-at-11.55.45.png)

Now where is that pinata?  :P
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 12, 2019, 12:30:57 PM
firing and basic collision detection of projectile sorted :)

No enemies yet.
It's great fun just to toddle around firing at the scenery! And some bits already make me smile and shout at the screen...

Definitely one for "take isometric and sprinkle with nuts!"
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 12, 2019, 01:04:41 PM
Quote
Definitely one for "take isometric and sprinkle with nuts!"

Looks like you're having fun Adam.   :D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 12, 2019, 04:26:58 PM
firing and basic collision detection of projectile sorted :)

No enemies yet.
It's great fun just to toddle around firing at the scenery! And some bits already make me smile and shout at the screen...

Definitely one for "take isometric and sprinkle with nuts!"

Itching to have a play on this one.. Not literally, honest! :-)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: blinkok on March 13, 2019, 12:56:08 AM
This is some lovely art work. First class!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 13, 2019, 08:46:00 AM
Sorta coming together now...

Got to get things nice and clean though...  ;D
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-13-at-08.43.48.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 13, 2019, 09:07:03 AM
Broom broom broom broom I want to clean my room ;-)


Think cleaning the floor tiles might reveal some secrets.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 13, 2019, 08:54:37 PM
... like a trap door or 2? Nice work.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: therevills on March 14, 2019, 02:42:36 AM
Loving the look for this! Very cool!  8)

The brush reminds me of the one from Mickey Mouse in Fantasia - Sorcerer's Apprentice.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 14, 2019, 03:07:38 AM
Quote
Broom broom broom broom I want to clean my room ;-)
Let's spend the night together, together with my broom :o

Quote
Got to get things nice and clean though...  ;D
Looking really really great and fantastic work on the graphics. Hope the gameplay is crap though :P
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 14, 2019, 03:09:16 PM
nah... Given up on gameplay and decided to play with titles and menus...  :-*

(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-14-at-15.06.59.png)

Now where did I put the "Big Boys Book of AI"?

Gameplay is complete pants!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: craigd on March 15, 2019, 12:36:37 AM
This just looks sweet. Definitely takes me back to my Speccy days. Good luck man!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 15, 2019, 07:26:43 AM
Menus - yay!
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-15-at-07.23.36.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 15, 2019, 10:23:48 AM
Looking the business.   8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 15, 2019, 03:01:33 PM
Looks like Mortis has found 4 of the runes already ?
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-15-at-14.59.38.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 15, 2019, 09:09:23 PM
Every time Adam knocks it out of the park. Not even seen it play yet but you just know this is going to be a contender.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 16, 2019, 07:56:11 AM
hehehe - thanks :)

I've not posted anything that moves so here is something that Mortis has found. I wonder if it will make friends?  :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/mortis.gif)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 16, 2019, 09:38:08 AM
Quote
. Every time Adam knocks it out of the park. Not even seen it play yet but you just know this is going to be a contender.   

Couldn't agree more, this is triple AAA creativity, much kudos to you sir, I'm struggling just to get a global variable to decrement in more than one file with blooming MAVs  ;)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 16, 2019, 10:42:08 AM
why does that green ground-tile-dot dissappear / flicker. Color-per-block limitations?

Animation speed seems a bit too fast (appears "hectic") and scorpions would not move so fast - maybe decrease it a slight bit?

Else: yes, IWasAdams sense for art is clearly recognizeable. Now we should put our envy back into our pockets and try our best too.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 16, 2019, 10:49:46 AM
@Derron, if you manage to get far enough in my Big Dark Adventure, I think you'll be blown away with some Moana Lisa esque 2D speccy art,  8).  That's if I finish it, the clocks ticking!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 16, 2019, 03:25:57 PM
OK, Guys,.. Gets see the Spectrum vs Spectrum Next versions:

first is the Spectrum 48/128k
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-16-at-15.19.37.png)

and the same room as Spectrum Next version (the next allows full palette color per pixel)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-16-at-15.19.59.png)

I thought this was a good demo of the graphics - they are the same in both. but using a shader to flatten out the color

You can also just see that the digits on the bottom right are now functioning. and yep they stat at 3071!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 16, 2019, 04:19:39 PM
why does that green ground-tile-dot dissappear / flicker. Color-per-block limitations?
My guess would be it's the black outline that makes the tile dot appear to dissappear / flicker

Quote
OK, Guys,.. Gets see the Spectrum vs Spectrum Next versions:
He he, looking really good :)

Not to spoil things but could you and everyone please read the competition posting regarding the rules on the colour palette, thanks :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 16, 2019, 10:05:04 PM
HMMMM....

thinks.... how to respond....

ok....

It's the same palette isn't it?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 16, 2019, 10:10:20 PM
Yep, your image looks like minimal colours with half bright applied, just like in the pallette. Grey areas are tough.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 17, 2019, 07:35:35 AM
I've been all over the code and graphics and it looks ok - as far as I am aware...

But. There are shaders involved, so there are possible 'minor' color differences. Plus possible alpha colors (like 255,0,0,1) hiding around.

I'm open to suggestions here :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 17, 2019, 11:01:09 AM
Quote
It's the same palette isn't it?

I know it's petty to point out but as its in the rules if I don't let you know now and someone points it out after the comp closes then things turn sour :( - Hence me saying for everyone to please check your palettes are using the ones provided :)

The lighter colours are all correct but your darker colours are not :

(https://www.syntaxbomb.com/images/ZXPaletteDiff01.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 17, 2019, 11:45:10 AM
noted and changed.  :D

Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 18, 2019, 07:49:26 AM
nothing to show today  ;D

But did sort out the loading screen, so I can tick that off the list now...
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 18, 2019, 10:45:42 AM
BLOODY ECK!  :o

IT WORKS!!!!!  8)

BIIG NEWS.... The synth made its' first sound as an import today!
Nothing too dramatic, but was a complete voice with controls running independently within the game!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 18, 2019, 11:09:42 AM
so IT came ALIVE !!11eleven!?

Do what you enjoy ;-)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 18, 2019, 02:39:41 PM
Further update...

Completely operational and very low system use too!!!  ^-^

I thought there might have been some impact with both graphics and sound running, but both are rock solid - yay!!!!!

So it looks like you might get 3 different renditions:
1. spectrum 48k beep
2. spectrum 128k chip synth
3. spectrum next true sound

current sound (file) storage is 110k - this will increase with true sound voices
and the song file (containing all sequences) is 141k
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 20, 2019, 07:46:47 AM
Nothing to show  >:(

Started work on cross compile. so that I can have windows and macos versions
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 20, 2019, 09:23:39 AM
who cares of a mac version? Install a linux box and create a linux release :-)

Think since the latest compo you should have some working code on linux now (if not - drop me a mail and we could try to fix the issues).


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 20, 2019, 09:26:50 AM
Quote
who cares of a mac version?

lol I'll be supplying PC and Mac versions of my game.   :D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 20, 2019, 09:51:37 AM
I feel like a 5% minority.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 20, 2019, 09:56:57 AM
Quote
I feel like a 5% minority.

Aw, for me AGK works out of the box for PC and Mac, but some troubles getting it to work with Linux (which I don't have time for at the moment).  Linux doesn't even have a Forum at the AGK Site.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 20, 2019, 10:50:11 AM
initial tests looks like this will only be macos release - windows is completely no go. possibly linux - we'll see...
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 20, 2019, 10:57:55 AM
Quote
Rules :

4.. Provide a download with at least a Windows executable ( or link if a web browser game only ). Include other OS's too if you want.

So ... maybe give it an evening and try to make it work?
Check if its the audio part or the graphics part which makes it crash.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 20, 2019, 11:00:07 AM
hope - looks like i'm out.

Gonna take a (looong) walk now and mull things over on where to tread next.

I reed to rethink how to program, what language, what platform, etc. I think that windows is just a complete sh*t show that I just can't (mentally) support any longer!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 20, 2019, 11:15:20 AM
Just try to get the application working - maybe skip the shader thing and provide two sets of sprites. create your sound and store it as .ogg - use that in the game.

All the things which might be borked on other platforms. I am sure you can get it working.


@ languages
BMX NG, Godot, AGK, Unity, ... there is plenty of stuff available.

Do not forget that you got NG working ... maybe porting stuff from Monkey to NG isn't that hard (dunno how you do the shader stuff)?
Maybe other tools already provide what you need (Godot?). Depends on the language features you need (AGK -> no "OO")


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 20, 2019, 01:39:15 PM
Quote
who cares of a mac version? Install a linux box and create a linux release :-)
Me, iWasAdam and Steve Elliot just for starters ;D - Linux should stay in the server world but... I will also supply a linux version as the very last thing I do, just for Derron :P

Quote
windows is completely no go. possibly linux - we'll see...
Is it THAT serious? :o - What's wrong with it?

Quote
Just try to get the application working - maybe skip the shader thing and provide two sets of sprites. create your sound and store it as .ogg - use that in the game.
That sounds like the easiest solution to finish for the comp. I'm sure you can sort the issues out afterwards if needed.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 20, 2019, 08:00:17 PM
ok windows now 50% go. I sorted the graphics bugs, so only the audio to sort now...  8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 20, 2019, 08:02:09 PM
 8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 20, 2019, 08:03:54 PM
ok windows now 50% go. I sorted the graphics bugs, so only the audio to sort now...  8)
Good news. Keep at it, I've a nice cold beer waiting when it all springs into action ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 20, 2019, 08:39:07 PM
it beeped!!!!!!!! ;D :o
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 20, 2019, 08:40:09 PM
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 20, 2019, 08:47:44 PM
I think that windows is just a complete sh*t show that I just can't (mentally) support any longer!

If only the whole world adopted Macs and dumped Micro$hite forever. I'm trying to angle myself a new job at the moment. The company has a policy of not using Microsoft software and Windows at all. Every employee has a company Macbook.

SOLD!!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 21, 2019, 08:48:06 AM
Thanks for the encouragement, think i needed it there !   :-[

I'm just glad I did the cross compile tests now, and can fix things...

First set of monsters added... exploding pumpkins?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 21, 2019, 09:35:06 AM
It needs
crazy carrots (with a knife!1!1)
party pumpkins (8-colors-confetti-explosion)
collapsing corns (wait until they pop!)
Private pepper (the brutal chilli monster and henchmen of the evil himself)

;-)


@ win32
Nice you got it working - it is way better than stopping dev again (see some of your unfinished projects).


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 21, 2019, 05:25:56 PM
All I want to know is if the boobs are going back in .....
 :o
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 22, 2019, 06:15:19 AM
OK, something new to show...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-22-at-06.12.52.png)
Looks like spitting plants protecting the piñata !
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: blinkok on March 22, 2019, 10:26:37 AM
Wow! That is lovely
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 22, 2019, 12:32:37 PM
Top notch.   8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 22, 2019, 10:44:01 PM
 :-X
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 22, 2019, 10:52:51 PM
Quote
:-X

Boobies?   ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 23, 2019, 08:27:08 AM
Consider yourself slapped!  :o

thought I would put a small maplet on screen for you:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-23-at-08.24.43.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 23, 2019, 09:17:23 AM
Boobies?   ;D

Consider yourself slapped!  :o

Saggy?


PS: Some might say the game would loose "character" but ... I would like to see such thing in proud ">256color high res". The toony character must be kept but you could add all these little bells and whistles (mice holes, grass between tiles ...). Think it could look gorgeous.

bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 23, 2019, 02:44:31 PM
I would say it's game over....  :-[
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-23-at-14.40.15.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 23, 2019, 04:02:49 PM
Love the skelly game over screens, inspirational  :D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 23, 2019, 05:38:51 PM
Even in death the Speccy looks colourful ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: GaborD on March 23, 2019, 05:44:34 PM
Best game over screen I have seen in a long while.

 
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 23, 2019, 06:22:18 PM
Quote
Even in death the Speccy looks colourful ;D

The Speccy is always awesomely colourful.   ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 24, 2019, 02:53:32 PM
The end is nigh...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-24-at-14.48.55.png)

and I've soo much more to do... Finding three other runes will help !  8)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-24-at-14.49.47.png)

the runes you've collected are now shown in the top right too.

I've been busy getting end screen and music sorted. phew!!!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 25, 2019, 11:37:51 AM
maybe the last image post...  :o
Mortis playing Hide and Seek with the 'egg/ball'
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-25-at-11.26.36.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 25, 2019, 03:29:19 PM
Sorry Steve, I couldn't help myself...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-25-at-15.27.07.png)

been busy debugging sound issues. but got them sorted, so there will be 3 sound versions:
Spectrum 48 - single channel
Spectrum 128 - 3 channel + noise
Spectrum Next -  sampled

And 2 graphics versions:
spectrum 48 - 'generally' sticks to the 8x8 pixel 2 color limit - with some very slight overlaps I'm not too worried about - I tried very hard to stick to how it would have looked on the original
spectrum next - 16 color per pixel
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 25, 2019, 03:35:00 PM
Quote
Sorry Steve, I couldn't help myself...

lol quite fitting it says something similar in my game.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 25, 2019, 04:18:32 PM
Think the colors suit to the "viva morte"-theme (yes a bit more "yellowish/greenish" would be even better but still the vibrant colors fit!).


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 26, 2019, 08:26:51 AM
While testing Do debugging Repeat  8)

All sort of weird stuff now. footsteps sounds and using the synth parameters to do subtle things like echos!

catching all those bugs...
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 26, 2019, 12:55:50 PM
the end is now in sight, so I added a few new things. Mortis has found some water...  :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-26-at-12.53.02.png)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 26, 2019, 03:29:55 PM
Windows 10 version working perfectly  8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: therevills on March 26, 2019, 10:45:21 PM
Looking great Adam!

Really hope it has the movement sound effects of Knight Lore!

https://youtu.be/S_l1gagPjV8?t=23

Just listen to how the little guy walks!  :D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 26, 2019, 11:52:51 PM
Every screenie makes me think, wow, great work!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 27, 2019, 07:57:27 AM
Quote
Really hope it has the movement sound effects of Knight Lore!

Not quite - it's more like Atic Atac.
there are 3 versions of the sound included:
spectrum 48 with one channel beep
spectrum 128 3 channel + noise
spectrum next - sample based

They all use the same real-time audio core which is something I've been working on for a while - this is it's first outing.
The default is the Next version, which uses some interesting stuff with the footsteps. There is only one sound being used, but I am doing all sorts of audio trickery to make it sound like lots of different sounds!

The same (concept) is used when the game first starts - you'll have to run it to find out what I mean...

the entire storage (for all sounds) is 356k. The spectrum 48/128 sound is about 256 bytes

So everything you hear is being generated in real-time on the cpu. Think of it as a programmable 16 voice synth.

The song code is more resource hungry (memory wise), but I have some ideas for maybe compacting it slightly.
All the songs are the same data being played, with tracks being muted depending on what spectrum version you are playing.
so:
spectrum 48 used track 1
spectrum 128, tracks 1,2,3,4
spectrum next, tracks 9,11,12,13,14
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 27, 2019, 08:54:58 AM
Just for Derron - Linux compile complete and operational  :o
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 27, 2019, 10:53:08 AM
Yay. While we Linux user's might not be the developers best friends (we submit bug reports) we appreciate the efforts of a native build ;-)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 28, 2019, 08:53:03 AM
I'm on the last round now...
Mainly doing constant bug checks and fixes.  :o
Minor update to the mini map:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screenshot-2019-03-28-at-08.49.34.png)
I've added some direction arrows to point you (vaguely) in the right direction for finding runes
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 28, 2019, 10:09:05 AM
A Mini map and a Linux build, are you sure you haven't got a small team on your project, great work!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 28, 2019, 05:03:09 PM
A Mini map and a Linux build, are you sure you haven't got a small team on your project, great work!

We worked out a while back that Adam isn't actually completely human. Most of him is hard-wired into a computer so he can code while doing other boring stuff - like life :-)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 28, 2019, 05:41:09 PM
On "15.07.2017, 13:48:02" Adam uploaded his mind into the cloud and renamed itself to iWasAdam.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 29, 2019, 06:22:08 AM
On "15.07.2017, 13:48:02" Adam uploaded his mind into the cloud and renamed itself to iWasAdam.
He is a machine with production :o - perhaps a handicap system needs to be added to the comps :P
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 29, 2019, 07:25:27 AM
You guys... <Poetic image number 37 not found><memory deleted> :))
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: therevills on March 29, 2019, 08:25:12 AM
On "15.07.2017, 13:48:02" Adam uploaded his mind into the cloud and renamed itself to iWasAdam.

iWasAdam begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 AM...  8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 29, 2019, 08:29:06 AM
It's done!  :D
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/mortis-title.gif)
https://adamstrange.itch.io/viva-mortis (https://adamstrange.itch.io/viva-mortis)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: therevills on March 29, 2019, 09:03:11 AM
Downloaded... played... think its great... but plays too fast or I'm getting old  :P
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 29, 2019, 09:07:10 AM
Hmm on mac it was loading and looking good, but I enlarged the window as it was loading and the screen is messed up now (a magnified section of the screen only is shown).  How do I reset it?

On PC version now.  haha very cool  8)  Plays fast like Atic Attack, nice.  You might want to allow the user to just press enter on the menu screen, when the menu bar is on an option - rather than having to move the selection bar and also press a number.  Will have a proper go later.  Good stuff!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 29, 2019, 10:26:57 AM
checked the mac version couldn't replicate. but ctrl+cmd+f is the standard way of flipping between fullscreen and windows :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 29, 2019, 10:44:25 AM
Windowed and Full screen is not the problem, a zoomed-in version of the screen is only shown (from the first option down to the left side with copyright).  The rest of the picture is off-screen.  It was running fine until I clicked the green enlarge icon on the mac os window, while it was loading.  Uninstalling and still it's stuck.

Press any key and nothing happens after game over (you have to press fire to continue) so a change of wording required.

Strange how you fretted over the PC version (which works flawlessly) and the Mac version that doesn't.  Sorry Adam, couldn't resist.   ;)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 29, 2019, 11:31:38 AM
I'll get onto it for you.

Have you tried resizing the window with the mouse??
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 29, 2019, 11:35:29 AM
Cool.

Yes you can re-size with the mouse but that still leaves just a section of the screen showing.  It now needs to be re-set to install defaults but there are no files to edit and uninstalling/re-installing do not work, because I'm guessing you're saving settings somewhere..
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: MrmediamanX on March 29, 2019, 11:45:44 AM
game runs crazy fast, tested on my old win vista laptop and winGPD ... still playable.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 29, 2019, 11:50:28 AM
Tried linux version for 2 minutes (to check for the above bugs):

- started fine
- when doing a windows scaling I saw that pixel aspect ratio changes (so no letterboxes but "squished/extended pixels")
- hitting the "screen [ ]" element on the top right scaled up to a fullscreen on monitor 1
- hitting it again made it a windowed fullscreen
- hitting it again stretched the game on both monitors (dual screen setup: 1920x1200 + 1280*1024).

Code: [Select]

[DesktopWindow]
X=3
Y=24
Width=1920
Height=1200
Fullscreen=TRUE


[Window]
X=0
Y=0
Width=3200
Height=1200


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 29, 2019, 11:54:23 AM
I'll have to look into the fullscreen stuff on linux - it's still (in a lot of ways) experimental. but in general it works, so that's a good start :)

Good to see the ini file Derron. I can work on a fix for that

@MrMediaManX
Quote
game runs crazy fast
in a good way or bad way? it should be sorta running about 60fps
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 29, 2019, 11:59:12 AM
Quote
but plays too fast or I'm getting old  :P

game runs crazy fast,

in a good way or bad way? it should be sorta running about 60fps

Are you compensating for high monitor refresh rates Adam?  I like the fast Atic Attack pace, but I still think it's a bit fast here too (my refresh is 75 Hz) so if it's running at 75 FPS rather than 60 then the pace would be better at 60 FPS.  It's a bit manic.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 29, 2019, 12:19:55 PM
Hmmmm. You should travel across a room at just over a second  :)

I tried to make it a bit more frantic so it gets your blood pumping. I can look at slowing things down - is this a first methinks?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: MrmediamanX on March 29, 2019, 12:49:21 PM
Quote
in a good way or bad way? it should be sorta running about 60fps

Kinda ok if your used to playing games which require that quick reaction style of game ... I guess.
Never seen it done in 2D-ISO with digital controls in mind....for the most part I was just tanking until I got somewhere.
It generally run's at about 35 - 40 on my old vista LP, at 60 on the GPDwin.
I kept running into the holes/under ground entrance's before even being able to stop due to the speed and being sucked in em.
it just takes a lot of anticipation prior each room. all and all it seem's alright .... an nicely done to. :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 29, 2019, 02:42:01 PM
Quote
I kept running into the holes/under ground entrance's before even being able to stop due to the speed and being sucked in em.
it just takes a lot of anticipation prior each room. all and all it seem's alright .... an nicely done to. :)

Very interesting observation. There is a special knack to it, but it look like you are being caught in exactly the way I wanted it to behave. So on those grounds I'm happy :)
I love the 'anticipation' comment. My aim was to have something that was retro, but modern - with a frantic feel to it - hopefully making you want to play more ?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 29, 2019, 04:07:00 PM
I'm getting the same screen stretched issue on Mac as Steve. Windows works fine though :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 29, 2019, 05:12:13 PM
Quote
Hmmmm. You should travel across a room at just over a second  :)

Blimey, that would explain the quickness.   :o

Glad it's not just my Mac though that has a problem, it seems Qube does too.  But game looks great...on PC.  Get it working on Mac too dude.  Like I said, before you scale-up it was working fine.  In the meantime a new version that saves out the pre-scaling data so we can reset?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 29, 2019, 06:13:51 PM
@ Steve
Can't you edit the .ini file to your likes?


Bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 29, 2019, 06:24:29 PM
That's what I've been looking for, but there doesn't seem to be one as far as I can see.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 29, 2019, 07:04:12 PM
Maybe Adam saves in some kind of "user directory" (dunno how Mac handles that). My Linux box has a "VivaMortis.ini" next to the binary. Maybe do a "locate VivaMortis.ini" on Mac ?


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 29, 2019, 07:13:36 PM
On Mac you just get an icon, unless you invoke show package contents.  Kinda neat.  But Adam said Linux version was experimental so probably why you have that file, I've searched and Mac version doesn't.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 29, 2019, 10:06:26 PM
iWasAdam, is your MacBook retina?. If not then that could explain why it doesn't scale up properly on our Mac's?. I also can't find how to reset back to the default. I did check for something in the App itself and in the Application Support folders. My guess is you are writing to some other area for the settings?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 30, 2019, 06:58:40 AM
working on a fix for you :)
Meanwhile Mac .ini can be located:
/library/preferences/vivamortis.ini

Just checked new build on macbook - its a 2011 retina and seems to work. I've not got anything newer with retina.

Qube - you might see an upturn in people visiting. VivaMortis has been picked up by Indie Retro News along with the SyntaxBomb reference. Also It is referenced from my itch-io page which has seen a bit of traffic too  :o

itch.io page now updated with new version for mac
https://adamstrange.itch.io/viva-mortis (https://adamstrange.itch.io/viva-mortis)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 30, 2019, 12:09:14 PM
Qube - you might see an upturn in people visiting. VivaMortis has been picked up by Indie Retro News along with the SyntaxBomb reference. Also It is referenced from my itch-io page which has seen a bit of traffic too  :o

Well deserved  ;D

Going to have a look at the game now.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 30, 2019, 12:31:51 PM
 8)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 30, 2019, 04:50:27 PM
Quote
Meanwhile Mac .ini can be located:
/library/preferences/vivamortis.ini
It's not there but I did find it in /users/<username>/library/preferences

Delete the file and then the app will launch fine in just windowed mode.

Quote
itch.io page now updated with new version for mac
Still has the same issue when going full screen :(

Quote
Qube - you might see an upturn in people visiting. VivaMortis has been picked up by Indie Retro News along with the SyntaxBomb reference. Also It is referenced from my itch-io page which has seen a bit of traffic too  :o
Cool, let's hope we get a fresh influx of happy coders ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 30, 2019, 05:44:58 PM
For god's sake man, stop hiding the ini file!  At least until bugs are sorted.  Derron said it was next to the exe on linux!   :P

Yes the bug is still there, so don't maximize on Apple.

Great!  It's a very nice piece of work looking at the PC version.  Congrats.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 31, 2019, 02:21:07 AM
Had a good play at this tonight. Really well put together and pretty frantic :) - Great work on making it all come together. I'm always running into the next room wondering what I'm going to encounter. Not quite sure if I prefer the 48k version over the 128k/Next version :P - Well done though.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on March 31, 2019, 08:32:17 AM
Yes the bug is still there, so don't maximize on Apple.

I'm going to assume this is just a retina thing then. I'm running a mid 2010 Imac and stretching the screen works just fine here.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 31, 2019, 11:29:06 AM
Quote
I'm going to assume this is just a retina thing then. I'm running a mid 2010 Imac and stretching the screen works just fine here.

Maybe you're right, Qube seems to think the same (I'm on a 2017 MacBook Pro).
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 31, 2019, 12:24:32 PM
@ Steve & Qube. Could you run it, quit it and post the ini file please :) That will give me a place to start.

I've got much nastier issues with the latest MacOS release - so I', busy sorting it all out  :-X
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 31, 2019, 12:42:10 PM
Quote
@ Steve & Qube. Could you run it, quit it and post the ini file please :)

Well no because I can't find the ini file!  It's not where you said it was and Qube mentioned the Library Folder in Users, that directory doesn't even exist for me.  Could it be that the program is not getting as far as generating an ini file?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on March 31, 2019, 02:09:30 PM
hmmm I wonder where it's gone?  :o
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 31, 2019, 05:44:21 PM
The search for ini.  Could be your next game mate lol.  No problem it runs well on PC, get the Mac version sorted in the bug week.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on March 31, 2019, 05:47:38 PM
@ Steve & Qube. Could you run it, quit it and post the ini file please :) That will give me a place to start.

Code: [Select]
[DesktopWindow]
X=200
Y=90
Width=20480
Height=2662
Fullscreen=FALSE


[Window]
X=200
Y=90
Width=20480
Height=2662


[Keys]
Left=208
Right=207
Up=210
Down=209
Fire1=32
Back=27
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on March 31, 2019, 08:34:21 PM
Sir, you have a pretty big screen - or pretty high pixel density ;-)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 01, 2019, 08:59:52 AM
Brilliant Qube - I'll see what can be done :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: therevills on April 01, 2019, 09:10:46 AM
Sir, you have a pretty big screen - or pretty high pixel density ;-)

I would guess multiple monitors...
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on April 01, 2019, 09:24:28 AM
I would guess multiple monitors...

Width=20480

-> this equals to ... hmm 10 FHD screens next to each other - or 5 ones if they are retina?

Think you missed the 0 after the 2048 :-)
(which btw is an odd coincidence - 2^11)

bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 02, 2019, 10:43:21 AM
Viva Mortis updated to 1.03 for windows and mac
- windows has a sound fix where the sound was being played an ocatve higher
- mac is totally new compile with fis for black screen on latest macos
- possible retina fix
https://adamstrange.itch.io/viva-mortis (https://adamstrange.itch.io/viva-mortis)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on April 02, 2019, 12:24:37 PM
Sorry Adam, no luck.  If I could find that ini file I might be able to reset (as it runs ok until I maximize the window).
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on April 02, 2019, 12:29:19 PM
Maybe add a "cmd + R" shortcut to reset resolution settings (and config file).

@Steve
Open up a terminal and type in:
find / -name "vivamortis.ini"

Maybe it finds the file.

---
or use
locate vivamortis
(which might need a "sudo launchctl load -w /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.locate.plist" before to update the DB if not done yet)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on April 02, 2019, 01:14:54 PM
Quote
@Steve
Open up a terminal and type in:
find / -name "vivamortis.ini"

Operation not permitted.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on April 02, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
Might require a "sudo" (admin privilegues).
Else I cannot say much as I am no Mac user - seem you are a one and as a developer you might have been in contact with a terminal already (or are able to use the search engine of your likes to find out how stuff can be found on your mac  :P).

Of course it is up to you to do this or just wait for IWasAdam to supply a fix. Depends on how much you are interested to get it run or not. No hurries please.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on April 02, 2019, 01:35:14 PM
Quote
@Steve
Open up a terminal and type in:
find / -name "vivamortis.ini"

Operation not permitted.

Search the app store for a little program called "find any file" - that'll find it in seconds and you can just delete it.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on April 02, 2019, 01:37:22 PM
That was with sudo, I've had a Mac for about 5 minutes lol, so I'm just learning how things work on Mac.

But it would be helpful for a reset function in the app.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on April 02, 2019, 01:38:25 PM
That was with sudo, I've had a Mac for about 5 minutes lol, so I'm just learning how things work on Mac.

Once you go Mac, you never go back :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on April 02, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
That was with sudo, I've had a Mac for about 5 minutes lol, so I'm just learning how things work on Mac.

But it would be helpful for a reset function in the app.

Quote
Search the app store for a little program called "find any file" - that'll find it in seconds and you can just delete it.

Thanks.  But I'm not paying for software to find Adam's files.   ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Xerra on April 02, 2019, 01:41:03 PM
Thanks.  But I'm not paying for software to find Adam's files.   ;D

It's free.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on April 02, 2019, 01:55:24 PM
It says £7.99
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on April 02, 2019, 02:27:34 PM
Code: [Select]
price = 0
if MacUserSinceTime > Now()-300 then price = 7.99

:)

bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 03, 2019, 02:51:20 PM
Steve. I've just updated the Macos version for you.
Run it and Press cmd+r to reset the window settings. It will quit immediately. then you can relaunch. Hopefully this might sort things?
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on April 03, 2019, 03:11:22 PM
Almost.  cmd+r resets the window to the size it was on the very first run of the game, but the view is still only of the bottom left of the screen.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 03, 2019, 03:17:17 PM
i'm assuming that the 'stretched size' remains the same if you drag rezise a corner with the mouse?

I can see that the stretching is now sitting at half. which is getting there.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on April 03, 2019, 03:20:54 PM
Quote
i'm assuming that the 'stretched size' remains the same if you drag rezise a corner with the mouse?

Yes, stretching just gives the same view, but fills the screen.

Quote
I can see that the stretching is now sitting at half. which is getting there.

Yep.   :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 04, 2019, 08:15:09 AM
ok, just updated the MacOS version with some DPI trickery:
Viva-Mortis MacOS updated with possible retina fix v2  ::)
https://adamstrange.itch.io/viva-mortis (https://adamstrange.itch.io/viva-mortis)
It still says 1.03, but it is a new version
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Qube on April 04, 2019, 10:04:42 AM
Good news! That works fine in full screen now. Still a bit squished or stretched on initial startup but one the main menu kicks in it’s fine.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on April 04, 2019, 10:20:25 AM
Clicking on maximize and it looks great on the laptop.   :D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 04, 2019, 10:24:09 AM
Bloody ell !!!  :o

Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: therevills on April 07, 2019, 01:17:09 AM
Check out this guys remake of Sabre Wulf:

https://twitter.com/Retrotechy/status/1114164091113938944

https://twitter.com/Retrotechy/status/1106266588381151232
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Imerion on April 07, 2019, 09:39:11 PM
Wow, this was really impressive! Fantastic art, really nice flow to the gameplay and very fun. I also appreciated being able to switch between classic Spectrum/Spectrum Next versions for both graphics and music - a cool detail!
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on April 12, 2019, 10:44:47 PM
Think the gameplay was a bit too fast to enjoy or even grasp the individual screens of a level. You "rush" through them (at least this is how I played it). Rushed from Pinata to Pinata in the hope to find the runes.
What I found particulary cool were the scream voices ... as this is a "humanoid voice" you can simulate with the hardware available in those computers of that time. Great idea.

Only "bug" I found was: if you hit "ESC" in the main screen the music restarts (might be a "onScreenEnter ...PlayMusic()" thing).

Game looked pretty "authentic" - have to confess I preferred the "next" to the uhmmm "barebone" alternatives ;-)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 13, 2019, 12:09:11 PM
​VivaMortis Source code now released.
https://adamstrange.itch.io/viva-mortis/devlog/76268/vivamortis-source-code-released (https://adamstrange.itch.io/viva-mortis/devlog/76268/vivamortis-source-code-released)

This is the mx2 source code. MX2 is a fork of the monkey2 programming language.

There are a number of support file not included (sound and graphics mainly), so IT WONT COMPILE. But it will allow you to see the entire source of the game, how things were done, how the game code is arranged etc.

Any thoughts, suggestions, desires. I'll do my best to help :)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on April 13, 2019, 12:32:15 PM
Thanks for sharing the code - had a quick glance at it of course :-)

- you seem to favor procedural code (many "case"-lines instead of having objects handling their stuff automatically)
- you like numbers instead of constants ;-)

Code: Monkey
  1. _fontMap._tileMap[ 5, _roomX, _roomY ] = 167 'erase pinata from map
  2.  
  3. [...]
  4.                 Select _roomKind
  5.                         Case 164 '-
  6.                                 base = 1
  7.                         Case 165 '|
  8.                                 base = 2
  9.                         Case 166 '+
  10.                                 base = 3
  11.                         Case 167 'room
  12.                                 base = 27
  13.                         Case 168 'start
  14.                                 base = 0
  15.  
  16.                         Case 180 'tV
  17.                                 base = 4
  18.                         Case 181 't>
  19.                                 base = 7
  20.                         Case 182 '<t
  21. [...]
  22.  

I know I would try to do it with const-values. Also you define some "enum values" as "Field" (eg. the "kind" in the codebox). Doesn't your fork allow for constants or globals?



How was such code created:
Code: Monkey
  1.                                                 Case 97
  2.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  1 )
  3.                                                 Case 98
  4.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  2 )
  5.                                                 Case 99
  6.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  3 )
  7.                                                 Case 100
  8.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  4 )
  9.                                                 Case 101
  10.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  5 )
  11.                                                 Case 102
  12.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  6 )
  13.                                                 Case 103
  14.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  10 )
  15.                                                 Case 104
  16.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  11 )
  17.                                                 Case 105
  18.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  12 )
  19.                                                 Case 106
  20.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  18 )
  21.                                                 Case 107
  22.                                                         AddSprite( x*16, y*16,  KIND_PLANT, SPR_BLOCK,  19 )
  23.  
Couldn't you simply map the case numbers to the spriteTypes? just to save a lot of LOC ? I am sure I am overcomplicating already by suggesting a map to bring down 50 lines to a handful.


Another thing I noted is: you do not split updates and renders - so update rate is the same as the render rate (which might create issues for collision or so). also some animations are not "time based" but "frame based" (350 frames rendered? do something). While this works for a 60fps setup - what happens if you now decide to play at 120fps?

Is this a general way of doing it that way for you - or just for this compo entry? Did you try to play it with eg. 120fps?


Code: Monkey
  1.                                 RequestRender()
  2.                                 ProcessKeyboard()
  3.                                 ProcessLoop()
  4.  
Any reason to first render and then change physics/logic? I prefer to do vice-versa but maybe your's does have a valid reason too?



Aside of that I have to say that the code looks structured and well layout. Might be of help for some interested readers.


Sorry for almost just "blaming" now but youngest is awake so napping-time is over.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 13, 2019, 02:07:46 PM
Good points Derron  ;D
First the const variables vs number
The data comes from outside and is always in flux initially. So const would need to be updated frequently
Plus... the numbers directly relate to the data and the chr codes so 176 references character 176, which in turn is sprite 176 from the font map

So.. if I update the sprites, the reference chr and codes all need updating too

Next up is the code and the case
Yep, it could be caught and remapped say case1,2,3,4,5 etc
But... there is a train of thought here;
In this case the sprite numbers could be directly mapped to the case numbers. But this is not always that way. They can be completely different
Also, lots of code is basically the same, but there can be changes, multiple sprites draw, etc. Or i may have removed a lot of redundant code already and titled things up.

Having everything separate is a much quicker way of getting to the data/info I want without having to decode things and make new code

Next up frame rates and timers
I lock everything to 60fps. This is timer based, so refresh/screen draw will stretch to accommodate.
The general thought is to aim for a stable 60fps.

If the FPS is ‘fixed’ at a certain rate, then I can generally use the frame counter for timing etc and it will alway remain almost the same across platforms and machines specs  :P
In some respects this makes working across platforms much more like an 8bit machine. You know how it will update and don’t have to think about it

Lastly I suppose there are different approaches to render/logic or logic/render. Either is valid, but things get odd once you start to deal with 3D

The question about procedural vs object is interesting
Oop is really just a variant of procedural programming - just broken  into small lumps. You still have to have the whole oop paradigm in your head.
If you have a system with a map, and players, which all use and want access to the same data, you need to work out how to organise that data.
At a top level you will have a main program that watches marshals and genially keeps order. If you know in advance what you need, oop is great. If you have no idea what you want - oop can get in the way.

I’m certainly not saying oop is bad - quite the reverse. You need to be able to work out which approach gives the best results in the time you have.

Oop is great for reusing stuff....

Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on April 13, 2019, 02:20:49 PM
@ reusing stuff
Yes - or to allow stuff separate from the "main file". The main project file does not need what a "Page" does - it just sets a current page and calls update() and render() of that.
Whatever happens in there is unimportant for the "main project file".

Same for units, entities on screen ...  all this stuff can work separate from all other thingies.


Quote
First the const variables vs number
The data comes from outside and is always in flux initially. So const would need to be updated frequently
Plus... the numbers directly relate to the data and the chr codes so 176 references character 176, which in turn is sprite 176 from the font map
Isn't that exactly the reason to USE constants instead of having that exact numbers everythere in the code?
Using "const" (or like you did: "Field KIND_***") allows to update it in one line of code.

Extending with new types is also only a matter of having another type then (if we talk about more than a simple "sprite defined by a key/index in a sprite map"). If a tile "number" is tried to get instanced without having a registered type for it: throw an error and the developer knows that he missed to handle something.

If we talk about simple "wall, grass, ..." so maybe only decorative stuff then your "select...case" thing of course is the most efficient thing (imho). Yet these things are "basic tiles" which most often are known right at begin of development (of course a "wall" can be of bricks or of thousands of non-crossable-plants).



@ timers
So what happens to devices having 30fps or "59Hz"? Hmm should try on my HP Elitebook when the kids are in bed and the friends gone. Think it just renders "twice per refresh" ?
Years ago I decoupled physics/logic from rendering to allow faster updates (logic) even with low render rates (some might come along with 30fps to save on cpu/gpu stress - and battery).

bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 13, 2019, 03:34:38 PM
Quote
Isn't that exactly the reason to USE constants instead of having that exact numbers everythere in the code?
Using "const" (or like you did: "Field KIND_***") allows to update it in one line of code.

yes and no.
If the numbers reference a character location. the number is exactly what it looks like.
For a const you would need to have the text for that 'thing and also need to have both the code and const open at the same time to know what it referenced
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on April 13, 2019, 03:57:16 PM
If you have eg. "case 167" and you also need to know "DrawSprite(...., 17)" then this I think is more confusing than to define all of them in one spot

TILE_KIND_GRASS:int = 167
[...]
SPRITE_GRASS:int = 17

And then
case TILE_KIND_GRASS: DrawSprite(...., SPRITE_GRASS)

Else you end up using "dynamic/changing/non-fixed" values in your handle-area instead of definition-area.


Also I understand that you did not give it a name as the content is not fixed and might change - so "167" might mean whatever ...
Ok, but if that was - how to know how to tackle "167" - is it blocking? Is it animated?

This is why I would prefer some kind of semi-automatism: tile = CreateTile(167, 17, [... additional config]). This can of course get then configured directly in your tile editor and lands in a .json or .xml file.


Nonetheless I understand this approach of yours for prototyping ("as long as it works"). Also might be an old habbit of yours (and a habbit of mine to do it differently).


bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Steve Elliott on April 13, 2019, 06:06:16 PM
This is in itself a topic for debate.  OOP-style brings benefits no doubt, but needs a structure that doesn't vary too much.  And producing a game is where game designs/ideas change constantly, a more fluid experience.  A balanced approach is required I guess.
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 14, 2019, 07:06:30 AM
Both have strengths and weakness. But Steve is correct about fluidity (where a design is in a state of flux), and this can hold back (quick) development work with oop.

I think that particles are a good example here.
A particle is a set of combined data. this can be as arrarys, or as types, or as oop. but...
The essence is the same: set a particle, update a particle, check a particle

I usually use oop for this with a particle class and then a manager class that corals all the particles. The app deals with the manager, the manager deals with the particles.

In VivaMortis I went with something quick and dirty. in fact there are 2 separate particle systems: rain and and more general particle setup. both are simple arrays. Here is the entire rain code:
Code: [Select]
------------
'data
field _pRainX:float[] = New float[64]
field _pRainY:float[] = New float[64]
------------
'setup
For x = 0 To 63
_pRainX[x] = Rnd(400)
_pRainY[x] = Rnd(-100, 150)
Next
------------
'tick the code
local p:int
For p = 0 To 63
_font.DrawChar( monoCanvas, 223,   _pRainX[p], _pRainY[p], 8 )
_pRainY[p] += Rnd(1.3, 3)
_pRainX[p] -= Rnd(0.2, 0.7)
If _pRainY[p] > 140 Then
_pRainX[p] = Rnd(400)
_pRainY[p] = Rnd(-100, 0)
End if
Next
End if

the particle code is much more involved and deals with different types of particles.
Code: [Select]
method   SetupParticles( count:int, life:int, kind:int = 0, subkind:int = 0 )Gives an example of how to set up the particles to do different things. Originally there was only one type but this was extended to multiple behaviours hence the case giving more options
This was written just for Vivamortis and was a bit dirty because I wanted something fast.

I could take the particle code, wrap it in a manager with oop and be able to reuse this in another project. But the code would need to extended as I added features that are currently not present (when I need them). it would still operate in vivamortis, but would be overkill as it would do loads of things that vivamortis did not require.
Similarly when used in a new project there will be lots of the vivamortis stuff that was not needed or used.

oop (at its worse) can tend towards abstraction creep: in that you can keep abstracting and using polymorphism, etc until you have lots of lovely oop code that is elegant and ticks all the boxes - but is very hard to read and maintain. oop at it's worse can be used to prevent access into the code, for no reason other than to be clever.

If we look at procedural code and particularly If and case and nested code. They are seen (by education) as bad. because they produce long pages of replicated code (spaghetti). - "This must be broken into manageable chunks" is a good mantra.
My answer here would be yes and no. If you are a learner - absolutely yes.
The moment you get into c/c++ and os systems. we're talking low level. you find all those nice educating lessons are dropped. You have loong pages of case/if statements, etc.

You mentioned json/xml files and I know that (derron) loves those. My (very) personal thoughts are 'they are the worse programming crap i've come across'. The reason I will not use or support them in any way is to do with forced abstraction and data hiding.
As an example:
I worked on a large commercial project (still operational) that used xml as the core setup. It loaded the xml parsed it and filled in the init data. Until it went wrong - which it did. that was when I saw the contents of the xml file. everything was a hash code. so reading the xml file gave you no help as to what the data was. You needed to have the hash codes translated or written down for you to know what was the data meant.
so (for example) to edit the xml to change the default x position on the window you need to find:
 #dj84029fjfnvkeng928273kgmklengjenwelw9485667392o237y5, -3465
not
 #dj84029fjfnvkeng928273kg4klengjenwelw9485667392o237y5, -3465
and never
 #dj84029fjfnvkeng9Z8273kgmklengjenwelw9485667392o237y5, -3465

xml is just text. if a human need to be able to read it then use HUMAN READABLE CODE

Why not use
[display properties]
window_x = 32

This sort of brings me back to Derrons numbers vs Const
Code: [Select]
TILE_KIND_GRASS:int = 167
[...]
SPRITE_GRASS:int = 17

Great SPRITE_GRASS=17 is obvious. although i do have to check in the constants when I need to know the actual value of SPRITE_GRASS. and the number (17) will change over it's life, so I cant really use ENUM and need to use CONST.
But wait...
I've now got 3 kinds of grass
SPRITE_GRASS = 17
SPRITE_GRASS1 = 15
SPRITE_GRASS2 = 19

and I've added a new kind:
KIND_LEAVES and a new sprite
SPRITE_LEAF = 17

but isn't SPRITE_GRASS = 17? Yep, but the grass graphics are in _fontBig and the leaf graphics are in _fontSmall

When I run the program the leaf graphics show a skull?
What was the number of the leaf?
load the const file and find the definition leaf =17
what was the skull graphic code?
check the number of the leaf and the skull in another program

Of course I could have just had a simple number which was the direct reference. leaf = 18 change number to 18 in code

Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on April 14, 2019, 09:55:35 AM
Regarding numbers, consts, fields ...

I think I did not properly understand what benefits you see to have eg. "167" written all across your code (which might be multiple files) instead of having a TMapConstants-type which holds all these information for you ("number/string"-holders are nice as they do not have complex dependencies and you can import them in all files requiring access to it).

Now assume we have a TMapConstants with globals/fiels like "KIND_GRASS1" (or 2 or 3). Everywhere in your code you replace the 167 with "TMapConstants.KIND_GRASS1". If you somewhen change the number it automatically changes it everyhwere.

If you decide somewhere to not use grass 1 but grass 2 - you replace that stuff there with KIND_GRASS2 which seems to be not more work than replacing the 167 there with the new number (which you have to lookup then of course too).


So how to do "random grass" then? TMapConstants could have some helper functions - and or contain arrays which reference the numbers: TMapConstants.KIND_ALL_GRASS:int[] = [167, 168, ...]. Then just pick a random one and you are good to go. Or you add a function "GetRandomGras:int()" which does a similar thing by defining there what belongs to grass and what to return from them.


...

I do not see a reason to use hardcoded numbers/strings in the code especially if you use it more than just 2 times.



@ Particle Systems
To avoid udderly complex basic types you could play a bit with the component approach (adding behaviours etc). That way the TParticle only contains eg a position and some abstract update() and render() methods which loop over attached components. Or - if you dislike components because of performance issues you just extend TParticle into your own to skip the whole components iteration which means you eg. just have a single byte pointer to "components:TComponent[]" (an empty array) which could be neglectible.

components are then special movement behaviour, child particles, attached emitters or whatever you can imagine.

bye
Ron
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 14, 2019, 10:37:34 AM
I think you're over thinking thing a bit Derron
Const are actually very useful/helpful - especially when the actual (internal) code for the const is irrelevant.

In the cases I have been using (and which were commented about). The values themselves are extremely important: Can (and will) be non linear. Also will change as development progresses.

Using the sprite example
Lets assume that DrawSprite( SPRITE_GRASS, x, y ) is replicated to use grass1&2, and that the values for the sprites has changed <- a very real situation

It is simple to copy DrawSprite( 17, x, y ) to become DrawSprite( 34, x, y ), DrawSprite( 14, x, y ) and the values are very simple to check

DrawSprite( SPRITE_GRASS, x, y ) on the other hand may become DrawSprite( SPRITE_WALL, x, y ), or DrawSprite( SPRITE_WALL3, x, y ). which I have to go and make sure I have SPRITE_WALL3, what it's correct value is etc.

I'm not saying that Const values are wrong - just use them where they fit best.

 ;D
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: iWasAdam on April 14, 2019, 10:43:30 AM
Ohh, one thing to add Re the Sprite vs Const.

Vivamortis uses 8 fontsprites, so that is a potential 8x256 = 2048 const needed for SPRITE_...

My personal thought is that a number is better that wading through 2048 const definitions

And if you look throught the vivamortis code you will see I do use consts, and fields to store permanent variables to make thing simple.
And some a variables and not consts, as they are allocated at runtime (their number being irrelevant just unique)
Title: Re: 3071 - 8bit-wars comp entry
Post by: Derron on April 14, 2019, 10:55:54 AM
irrelevant numbers: objects have an .id and something referencing it eg stores "tileID = object.id".


@ DrawSprite( 17, x, y )
Replacing "SPRITE_WALL" with "SPRITE_GRASS123" is a bit less error prone than replacing "17" with "64" (as it affects 177 or 717 too - so you need to make clever "(17," replacements etc.).

I understand that there might be way too many constants but this is only because you need 2048 sprites - which could be way less with grouping (sprites_player[0...9]) or parenting (spriteGroup.Add([sprite1, sprite30, sprite39]).
Just think that wordy expressions help more than having to constantly lookup 2000 numbers.

This is one of the reasons why some stuff could be written in ini, xml, json, whatever format to store it once and automatically use it in the engine without having to take care of what exact type is placed there and how it was numbered.
Somewhere you have the description if something is blocking or not. If this item is used in the map the engine automatically sets some properties (blocking...) and you never touch the tile ID in code again.

Next to static/basic tiles you could have dynamic tiles which need special handling via code. Of course "simple" dynamic tiles could even be defined via external files by providing some basic effects for tiles: "pickup", "pickupObject=objectID" or "pickupRandomObject=object1ID,object2ID" ...
This of course becomes more useful if working: in groups (level designer does not need to be able to modify code) or if you want stuff to be moddable / level editor.


Of course not everything must be overcomplicated and not everywhere OOP is needed.

bye
Ron