SyntaxBomb - Indie Coders

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bsisko on August 02, 2017, 12:49:08 AM

Title: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: bsisko on August 02, 2017, 12:49:08 AM
This is basically only the second time on this site.
So forgive me if I ask some stupid questions or sound like I don't know what I'm doing.
But what the hell happened to the Blitz basic website?

Last month I logged on there and almost everything was gone except the Home, News and Feature gallery page.
This month, I try to look it up and my browser reports an DNS error.

Can anyone out there update me?

--- Amanda
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Naughty Alien on August 02, 2017, 02:01:23 AM
..hi Amanda..this is what happened , roughly..

-B3D community asking for upgraded 3D engine for a long time, they were willing to pay even 500$ for it
-Mark responded with making new language called BMX
-Community still asking for 3D module for BMX and willing to pay for it and suggesting to Mark to do some advertising
-Mark responded with MAX3D which he left in to abyss of trial and error and left it open source
-Community asking for fixing BMX (Linux/OSX)and 3D module and willing to pay for it and again alerting about advertising and competitors
-Mark decided to make new language called Monkey
-B3D/BMX community was wtf'ed and new Monkey community was happy and growing with their paid new language
-One morning Mark decided that he want to make some money, so he killed Monkey and decided to start again new language
-And in order to secure success, Mark decided to kill well established brand and entire community which was willing to pay all the time, in favor of brand new language still called monkey+something
-Most of us ended up wtf'ed here and wondering same as you just did...so no..your question is not stupid at all


Note:
Anyone else is free to add some potential missing lines here..
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: markcwm on August 02, 2017, 05:59:11 AM
Naughty Alien lol. Going back to the creation of Blitzmax, like she's been away that long! :P

Okay, Naughty links the death of Blitz to making yet another language and dropping the last one. This is true Mark Sibly could have done that better but I understand why he "went back to the drawing board" computers change all the time and you've got to keep up with it, Blitzmax2 would have had problems with things like pointers so he made MonkeyX which lots of people love. I think bb.com died because the Blitz community didn't donate enough to pay for it, in an era where software is increasingly low cost these thing will happen.

The good news is Brucey is for some years now Blitzmax headquarters, Kfprimm is even trying to make Blitz3d NG, I am working on Openb3d GL 2+ wrapper upgrade to Minib3d, Mark Sibly is now making Mojo3d (GL 3+) in MonkeyX2. Skid has backed up blitzbasic.com database to wasted.nz so nothing is lost and life continues on syntaxbomb.com by Qube and https://www.cerberus-x.com by Xaron and MikeHart and Brucey is working on a new Max site.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: dawlane on August 02, 2017, 07:01:50 AM
Naughty forgot to mention......
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Xaron on August 02, 2017, 07:10:51 AM
Haha well ya, thanks for those answers, made me smile this morning.

Apparently the only place left is now Monkey 2, but looks like their forums are down now as well  :D
http://monkeycoder.co.nz/forums

Everything's said by NA, couldn't have said it better.

edit: Ok, no. That place works, but he has banned me.  :P  :D  :D

Guess why? Because of that:
http://monkeycoder.co.nz/forums/topic/we-or-i-need-iap-community-funded/#post-9652
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: dawlane on August 02, 2017, 07:22:59 AM
Quote
but looks like their forums are down now as well
Works for me.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Xaron on August 02, 2017, 07:24:41 AM
Yeah have edited it. He has banned me. Even though I patreon him, bought several licenses for all products... Oh well... He cannot take criticism. All I wrote was:

http://monkeycoder.co.nz/forums/topic/we-or-i-need-iap-community-funded/#post-9608

Quote
You could still use Monkey 1 for that.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: dawlane on August 02, 2017, 08:14:38 AM
Quote
He has banned me. Even though I patreon him. Oh well... He cannot take criticism.
If I knew that some one was supporting my work financially; then I would at least listen to what they have to say.

I barely pay much attention to Monkey2, or anything to do with it after the BlitzMax and MonkeyX problems.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Naughty Alien on August 02, 2017, 08:18:55 AM
Quote
If I knew that some one was supporting my work financially; then I would at least listen to what they have to say.

..that guy has lost his direction long ago..banning people who put cash in to your pocket is plain stupid..as i have said before, he is indeed brilliant software writer, but social/business skills are null (i have been optimistic here)..
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Xaron on August 02, 2017, 08:27:32 AM
Thanks guys, I mean seriously, was I too harsh? This was not my intention actually.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Xaron on August 02, 2017, 08:59:47 AM
In case you wonder. Mark has now deleted my answer plus banned my second account which I created to answer as well and closed that thread. If you want to read what I wrote:

Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: MikeHart on August 02, 2017, 09:08:16 AM
Thanks guys, I mean seriously, was I too harsh? This was not my intention actually.


Nope, they just expressed they late and typical elitery nazi like behaviour. Hey, don't be upset. Mark thought MX would be forgotten and the sources would lay there dead. He seems to be upset that we actually doing things.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: TomToad on August 02, 2017, 09:51:41 AM
The BlitzBasic.com website has been archived at http://wasted.nz/
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: muruba on August 02, 2017, 12:02:18 PM
I think mobile is something that mx actually figured out. Throw desktop on top of it - and you have a winner. Using mx just for desktop is insane - there are better alternatives with 21 century tools out there (java/c++/c#, even js - as much as I hate js). And yes I remember I asked on mx forum what is the future monetisation strategy as "100 bucks per forever" approach didn't feel solid enough. Monkey name was also a bit of joke in itself...  :P
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: 3DzForMe on August 02, 2017, 04:15:10 PM
I've achieved some pretty sweet data parsing stuff within the html5 target on monkey which does desktop as well as mobile targets. Not sure I agree about your point that x, you and z are 'better' for desktop, depends on the task at hand.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: NightShift on August 02, 2017, 05:37:27 PM
As Simon hosts now the official Blitzmax download. Will he do anything with it? Further development or what?
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Xaron on August 02, 2017, 06:10:10 PM
Further development is done by Brucey.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: ThickO on August 02, 2017, 10:18:32 PM
Swore off Blitz products due to the poor documentation of Blitz Max, never looked back. I knew the end was near when Mr. Sibly made the statement
" I thought being in business for myself meant I could do what I want".
I've been in business for myself for decades and guess what, I'm still doing what my customers want. If you want income that is.
BRL treated its customers like fanboys, grateful for the scraps it doled out.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Rick Nasher on August 02, 2017, 11:42:05 PM
Laughing my pants of here Naughty!  ;D

You nailed the wtf feeling perfectly.

But really it's sad that someone so brilliant that he could bring us BlitzBasic on the Amiga and Blitz3D, seems to have really lost touch with reality so much.

If he would have only remembered the golden rules 'Never change a winning team' and 'Customer is king' then all had been fine. He'd now been in a flourishing business with employees doing the hard boring work, making easy money while sipping pina colada on a hot sunny beach with hula girls making wind using palm tree leaves and the only monkeys around would be in the trees, not on his computer, on his back or in his head.  :P

(-Time to choose between the red and the blue pill..-)

 
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: therevills on August 03, 2017, 12:02:57 AM
In case you wonder. Mark has now deleted my answer plus banned my second account which I created to answer as well and closed that thread. If you want to read what I wrote:

That's quite strange... I wonder if it wasnt Mark directly, maybe it was Simon in one of his moods again...
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 03, 2017, 12:14:01 AM
Sad times, I remember the Blitz Community with fondness. But equally sad that Mark lost his way too.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: markcwm on August 03, 2017, 12:15:42 AM
Sorry to hear about your ban Xaron. It does seem very odd behavior for him, on blitzbasic.com almost always people who were banned were starting flamewars and being nasty, I never saw him ban anyone for having a different opinion. Perhaps if you email him in a week or so when he's maybe calmed down and ask to be unbanned?
Quote
As Simon hosts now the official Blitzmax download. Will he do anything with it? Further development or what?
Brucey made Blitzmax NG (next generation) it's like Blitzmax 2. Installing Blitzmax 1/vanilla/legacy/OS is straight-forward but to rebuild modules you need to install GCC, the first 2 steps of my install NG tutorial (http://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,61.0.html) tells you how to set up GCC. If you want to install NG the easy way go to the releases (https://github.com/bmx-ng/bmx-ng/releases) and get the latest for your OS, then just "build all modules" it should work - if you want the latest NG source then follow the whole tutorial. For releases anything from v0.70 on is stable.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 03, 2017, 12:33:53 AM
If Brucey comes here and supports his version of Max, then great!

If not, then for me, people should move on from the Blitz Languages, after BRL's behavior in recent years.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: markcwm on August 03, 2017, 02:35:35 AM
Brucey does use Syntaxbomb, for example http://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,3297.0.html a bug fix despite the fact that he's busy with real life stuff at the moment.

I would never stop using a good tool just because I didn't like the authors, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Kryzon on August 03, 2017, 07:39:38 AM
I wish Floyd popped around here
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Xaron on August 03, 2017, 07:45:59 AM
Perhaps if you email him in a week or so when he's maybe calmed down and ask to be unbanned?

Thanks. I've mailed him 3 times in the last 4 weeks but never got a reply anymore. That was before the ban and my mails were just related to our continuation of Monkey X where I asked him if he's fine with renaming it and so on. Never insulted him, that line with "that there are virtually thousands of better options for desktop alone" was probably my harshest one.

I guess I was on his ignore list even before. I have had quite some good mail conservation with him in the days back - with Simon too btw as we wanted to offer Mark quite some money to take over Monkey quite before he made it completely open source anyway.

I just don't get it. He could swim in money. I always had the impression that he doesn't care about money but then on the one hand he begs for it - for some donations and complains about hosting costs (really? THAT was the reason to close BB.com?) and on the other hand when someone wants to give him a bunch of money he refuses it. Strange guy.

New Star Soccer, Crypt of the Necrodancer, 2DARK, all made with Monkey. Those guys are millionaires by now and Mark lives from donations?

edit: Looks like I can still do comments on his wordpress site, only the forum is locked.  ;D

@therevills: Ya, I guess it could had been Simon.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: markcwm on August 04, 2017, 02:20:26 AM
Hey Xaron,

well if I was to hazard a guess then either Mark doesn't like you and this was just an excuse to remove you, or more likely because you picked up MX and now he's struggling with MX2 and wishes he hadn't dropped MX. I do think that was a bad move, he should just have closed the Blitz site and kept selling MX for a while. Maybe he didn't want to sell MX to you as he wanted to open source it since Blitzmax did well from that, it's now in much better shape than if he had kept selling it and doing the odd OS update. But this is all just my speculation, I don't know him other than what he's posted but yeah, good luck with Cerberus-X.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Naughty Alien on August 04, 2017, 03:37:11 AM
@ Xaron
My piece of advice based on what i have said already is, drop it..guy who decided to remove entire community, which exists for a long, willing to pay and asking him for years, about product he now kind a doing, see no loss in kicking one guy out...pattern with that guy is very clear and it does repeat without failure...and it is, algorithmically, something like this

(1) Setup new project(language)
(2) Make folks excited
(3) Supply some info about amazing progress here and there(crowd goes wild)
(4) release it in final form (as he sees fit, not user base, which is why every single IDE came out of these languages looks dated and same)
(5) once community start asking more of fixing this or that(usually reasonable development requests) , get pissed off, release it for free/open source
(6) goto 1
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Xaron on August 04, 2017, 08:47:02 AM
Thanks guys for your kind words. Just for info, I sent Mark a mail to apologize for that simple sentence, but - as expected - no answer.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: MikeHart on August 04, 2017, 09:07:59 AM
Apologize for what? You didn't do anything.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: RonTek on August 04, 2017, 09:14:39 AM
I have not followed the complete history of Blitz Research, but from what I gathered I see NaughtyAlien's steps there to be on point. I don't get why he has to create MX2 as a language as C/C++ is a standard. It's true that the 3d module looks like a "been there, done that" stuff and I can surely name a lot of far better alternatives.

Having read the post, it seems he's not that interested in mobile feature and development so that's a big letdown.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 04, 2017, 09:47:46 AM
lol @ NA, exactly right those 6 steps.  :o
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Naughty Alien on August 04, 2017, 10:08:31 AM
Quote
Having read the post, it seems he's not that interested in mobile feature and development so that's a big letdown.

..of course..that require author to escape loop presented before, which means, relatively speaking, regular updates of language/tools, as mobile hardware is dynamic and one need to keep catching up with it, and that is not something to hope for (how looooooong BMX-ers were crying out loud for BMAX to be fixed on Linux??, and it never happened..) ..
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: dawlane on August 04, 2017, 11:43:39 AM
Quote
(how looooooong BMX-ers were crying out loud for BMAX to be fixed on Linux??, and it never happened..) ..
If I can find the post on the wasted archives, then you would get an inkling for the reason of why it never got any attention. It was during one of those Window vs Linux topics that became so popular when Windows 10 was released. It cropped up from someone in the loop, and had something to do with basing it on sales of Windows and OSX. I did say that I only bought BlitzMax because it covered the three platforms to save me the effort to learn three different APIs, two languages (C++/Objective-C) and three different development environments.

When you think about it, selling a product as cross platform for three operating and only two of them work as expected could have had legal repercussions in those territories where sales of goods and services are enforced.

As of now I'm very reluctant to part with any cash to purchase a licence or donate via patron to any software company or individual to work on software that could vanish over-night. I've been stung a few times now.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: MikeHart on August 04, 2017, 01:29:38 PM
As of now I'm very reluctant to part with any cash to purchase a licence or donate via patron to any software company or individual to work on software that could vanish over-night. I've been stung a few times now.


Understandable. Lucky for you, there are nice oss libs that help you in the game creation area if you don't want to reinvent the wheel.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: 3DzForMe on August 05, 2017, 01:24:56 PM
I keep coming back to this thread, what companies provide lifetime support for products for nowt - not a lot.

I suppose I'm almost nostalgic for the stuff I achieved with Blitz3D. I achieved some stuff in BMax also as an indie with Grey Alien's framework. Also close to something in the HTML5 flavour of the Monkey IDE.

I know Dawlane invested a lot of effort on the Linux side, if I remember rightly Dawlane provided a lot of help in the forums with scripts to get BMax doing the business. It is unfortunate BMax lines of support are also gone, and whatever issues there was with it in Linux will not be resolved.

Yep, its a shame that the BBasic forums are gone, its great the archives are hosted - every dog has its day. Suppose the real 'acid' test will be will stuff still be produced with BBasic stuff and heralded, who knows.

Monkey2 is in the offing, I wish it all the best - however my coding mojo is somewhat depleted of late. Happy Coding whatever tool you use  8)
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 05, 2017, 01:45:22 PM
It's early days for me, but AGK2 is seeming like a worthy successor to Blitz 3D all-be-it a multi-platform version.

I'm liking it so far, but using Tier 2 (C++) rather than Tier 1 (their version of BASIC).

A good example by Mike:        http://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=3
And Qube, both using BASIC:  http://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=25
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Naughty Alien on August 06, 2017, 02:16:41 AM
..yup..I agree 100%..AGK2 really does look very nice and so far it seems to be very simple solution for what i need..im already writing GUI for it..lol..
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 06, 2017, 09:41:05 PM
Good luck with your project na  :)

It's got my coding mojo back, I'll write a game with it and hopefully I still like it.  Still working things out.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Naughty Alien on August 07, 2017, 04:31:51 AM
..thanks man..this one will be something interesting (as far as i can tell) story wise and hot topic nowdays just set to some other 'world' :) and graphics style is also interesting mix of 2D and 3D..we will see how it goes..and this time is standalone , means, 1 game = whole story..not episodic...its tiresome to chase people after one episode is over..huh..
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Chroma on August 27, 2017, 07:01:53 PM
I agree.  Instead of creating an entirely new language every time, just keep making the existing one better.  I mean if C was done the same way we'd be using Z by now?  I think blitzmax should have been the flagship language and should have been continually upgraded.  It was (is) awesome.  I used to use blitzmax all the time.  I like Monkey too but it was definitely aimed at the mobile market.

But at this point I can't keep chasing Mark's latest language. I loved him to death and he's an inspiration to me personally. I've been using Unity and Construct 2 for making desktop and mobile games.

BTW, if Mark DID make one more language and say "this is it boys, I'm going to stay with this one and keep making it kick ass", I'd of course use it.  Mark's a really smart guy and I do believe he hasn't created his magnum opus language yet.  :o

I don't believe Blitz3D works on Windows 10?  Can anyone confirm that?
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 27, 2017, 07:30:54 PM
Quote
But at this point I can't keep chasing Mark's latest language.

I would never use one of Mark's Languages again...He has no idea of customer service, does what he wants, and ignores his customers requirements.  He got away with that attitude for some time - but not anymore.  There are many other options now.  His priorities are to write his version of Java, with 2d graphics and a shit IDE...Maybe you will get a complete 3d engine at some point...and a shit IDE...But we all remember the non event that was the 3d engine for BlitzMax...And broken Linux support...Then abandoning mobile devices too!

I would recommend AGK (Application Game Kit).  I'm using a world class IDE in Visual Studio 2017 Community and an industry standard C++ Language.  If C++ isn't for you, there's a Blitz BASIC 2 equivalent, with shaders, normal maps and it runs on many systems - from Windows, Linux, Mac to all mobile devices...Even Raspberry pi!  And a friendly community forum.

https://www.appgamekit.com/

Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: LineOf7s on August 28, 2017, 12:45:45 AM
I don't believe Blitz3D works on Windows 10?  Can anyone confirm that?

In my experience, Blitz3D works fine on Win10. 

If it's not already installed, upon first run of a Blitz3D application Win10 will initiate an install of DirectPlay, which people may find undesirable, but there are a variety of methods (https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,78.msg955.html#msg955) for dealing with that (http://socoder.net/?GotoPost=61492).
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Pakz on August 28, 2017, 10:34:47 AM
On the laptop with windows 10 that I bought a month or so ago I tried to install blitz 3d from itch. It installs but it does not run. It gives me a runtime.dll error.  So for me it is broken.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: LineOf7s on August 30, 2017, 04:44:35 AM
On the laptop with windows 10 that I bought a month or so ago I tried to install blitz 3d from itch. It installs but it does not run. It gives me a runtime.dll error.  So for me it is broken.

That is completely true... UNLESS you follow the instructions on the page you downloaded it from, or employ one of the solutions I linked to in my previous post.

If you do any of those, it works just fine.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 30, 2017, 10:17:37 AM
Blitz3D is a dead language, and ever more tricks are required to even get it running.

AGK 2 is basically Blitz BASIC2 and is updated regularly.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: LineOf7s on August 30, 2017, 10:42:43 AM
I have no issue with AGK2 at all - it's very exciting and I'm keen to see what comes of it - but to say Blitz3D is dead is to deny its usefulness to anybody.  The "tricks" are minor at worst, and vanilla Blitz3D is still very capable of producing a vast array of significant projects, not least of which is the recently released Polymaniacs (https://stevieg.itch.io/polymaniacs).

Blitz3D may not be being developed by Mark anymore, but it's got many more years of life left in it before it's by any means "dead".
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: RobFarley on September 12, 2017, 02:19:48 PM
Funnily enough, I was just looking for the site today, I'm looking at rehashing some of the stuff I did back in Blitz3D to phone apps and just felt the urge go get all nostalgic about stuff and read back the epic Alien Breed CP threads! Nice to see some familiar names here!
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on September 12, 2017, 02:25:54 PM
Indeed the Alien Breed Collaboration Threads were epic :)
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Rick Nasher on September 12, 2017, 05:55:44 PM
Let's Alien Breed in AGK(which is multiplatform) and make it 3D with LAN/multiplayer!  8)
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Rooster on September 12, 2017, 06:12:17 PM
What were the Alien Breed Threads?
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on September 12, 2017, 06:15:27 PM
Where the old Blitz Community worked together to produce a re-make of the Amiga classic game - Alien Breed.

Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Rooster on September 12, 2017, 07:03:54 PM
Cool!
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Rick Nasher on September 12, 2017, 07:15:22 PM
I think I somewhere have some 3D models lurking around in the lair of my harddrive..
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2rgyxdk.jpg)
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: RobFarley on September 12, 2017, 08:05:34 PM
Goodness me I remember downloading those, they were quake 2 models I think and then rigging and animating them... I didn't spend too long getting them very accurate as they were only going to be seen from above and quite small on screen... I'm sure I've probably still got the source code somewhere!
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Rick Nasher on September 12, 2017, 09:38:28 PM
They would actually do well in a non-top down 3D Alien game too, hehehe.
Never know what's behind the corner in sector Delta-2, but the proximity checker says "bliep-bliep-bliep", so better hold on to your flamethrower..  ;D
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: meems on September 15, 2017, 01:01:00 PM
>What happened to bb?
wow nice to read the consensus here, same thought I had, but I thought I was alone while all u lot were busy on Monkey. I agree Mark lost the plot. But for me the 1st step down the wrong path came with BlitzMax. Why? Because it had object orientation. OO is too involved for hobbyists. Hobby programming is the main source\gateway of people in games programming. A good BASIC can convert a non-programmer to a skilled amateur and prime him to learn harder language paradigms, such as OO. By shifting to OO, Mark stonewalled this source of people and revenue. Now noobs are starting with glBasic & freeBasic. So where was Mark's monkey userbase coming from? The oldmen? Anyone good enough & willing to invest time in monkey is good enough to write C++ and any other industry language, find libraries and bindings and do platform conversions themselves. So he's not going to convert a single punter from the established games industry. So where's his userbase? The only userbase he had were his loyal fans that he'd won over from his Blitz days. But as others said ; he didn't cater to their requests, he did what he wanted. This was fine for years, but he went astray. But why did he go astray?!?!

Part 2 wtf did Mark go astray?
Not long after it was written the B3D library became obsolete by newer DirectX. It would have been clear to Mark that there were now 2 paths to take in his game language writing job

a.) Keep endlessly writing Blitz libraries that get made obsolete every 18-24months due to newer openGL and DirectX etc
b.) Try write a language that has some inherent ability to auto-update as better hardware and software platforms become available


As a far-sighted ideas man, Mark would have found the 2nd option irresistible. The compromise was the language would have to be more abstract and difficult. He made the wrong choice. But with BlitzMax the mistake was not yet apparent and not too far gone, so he kept on with it, until it broke his business.

Ideally Mark should have stuck with improving BlitzPlus and Blitz3D. He was the best programmer, he could have cornered the the BASIC community and we'd all be happy. Without Mark, the BASIC community has spread to other BASICs. The community of old blitzmen and youngsters would have been very powerful.

Makes me question why I prefer BASIC over industry languages :
>Its much easier and faster to write.
> at the hobby and medium level : There's nothing to be gained from object orientation \ abstract programming over a well written and up to date BASIC
> functional BASIC is fine for anything below about 50,000 lines of code or 500 functions. which is more than 99% of hobby \ medium level games and apps


and really we should have known. Uni lecturers were saying 30 years ago : The main reason for OO was for enormous 1,000,000 line programs. It was Java that really screwed the entire programming community into thinking that OO is for all programming. " Your using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut " was how my lecturer put it in 1998 while I made a 300 line OO program to move a few lines around the display.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: meems on September 15, 2017, 01:02:48 PM
accidental duplicate
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Xaron on September 15, 2017, 01:52:41 PM
Very well written, meems. I do OOP day in / day out mainly with C++/C# for two decades now. And yet I'd love to use BB3D and still love it's simplicity. I don't need OOP for games, procedural is sometimes way easier to handle and even more "human" friendly due to its sequential nature. I even think about to teach my son (11) with BASIC first.

Actually I'm in the process of doing something like BB3D but cross platform. Still needs time.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: MikeHart on September 15, 2017, 01:56:43 PM
Actually I'm in the process of doing something like BB3D but cross platform. Still needs time.

Cat out of the bag!  :D
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Xaron on September 15, 2017, 02:29:49 PM
Haha oh well...  8)
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Rooster on September 15, 2017, 04:36:03 PM
@meems
I have to disagree with you about BiltzMax and OOP.
I got started with programing on BM, and with OOP I've apparently started going that way naturally.

So I wouldn't say that OOP was a wrong move for BM, you can still do every thing by hand. I just don't like hunting down a bunch of globals every time I change something.


Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: meems on September 15, 2017, 05:33:15 PM
@Rooster
> I wouldn't say that OOP was a wrong move for BM
Then we agree, OOP didn't ruin BMax, because it was low level OOP, and optional. Going OOP was a wrong turn, that would have bad consequences if taken to its Java-esk extreme, which he did : making nearly everything OO in monkey, was a sledgehammer for walnuts wrt hobby game making.

> I just don't like hunting down a bunch of globals every time I change something.
Thats no reason to go OOP. Stick your globals in a typedef. If you mean global functions then I assume u are working on very large projects with over 500 functions that u can't keep track of, in which case OOP is viable.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: IanMartin on September 15, 2017, 05:38:36 PM
It's kind of ironic that more OOP was added in a language intended to support platforms that mostly host the simplest types of games: HTML, flash, Android, iOS. 

Is there a case as to why you need or want OOP when you're making stuff like Flappy Bird, Candy Crush, or Cut the Rope? 


Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on September 15, 2017, 05:50:51 PM
Quote
It's kind of ironic that more OOP was added in a language intended to support platforms that mostly host the simplest types of games: HTML, flash, Android, iOS.

lol that's just Mark ignoring his market, as usual.

I still approach a problem in a procedural way, quickly get the routine working, then move to OOP when I have working code.  I then put it into a more rigid OOP framework.  That's the problem with OOP, you really have to have a good picture of how things all fit together immediately - then implement.  But with game development, ideas and structures change throughout the development process.

But when you do have a good OOP structure, things come together very quickly.

Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Rooster on September 15, 2017, 05:58:47 PM
@Rooster
> I wouldn't say that OOP was a wrong move for BM
Then we agree, OOP didn't ruin BMax, because it was low level OOP, and optional. Going OOP was a wrong turn, that would have bad consequences if taken to its Java-esk extreme, which he did : making nearly everything OO in monkey, was a sledgehammer for walnuts wrt hobby game making.
Yeah, I tried to look up tutorials for Java once, the "hello world" example confused me to no end.
> I just don't like hunting down a bunch of globals every time I change something.
Thats no reason to go OOP. Stick your globals in a typedef. If you mean global functions then I assume u are working on very large projects with over 500 functions that u can't keep track of, in which case OOP is viable.
Lol! My project is nowhere near that big. It just helps me keep my code more tidy and flexible.
That said, I've been using my game as a way to learn programing, so it's messy anyways.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Rooster on September 15, 2017, 06:02:05 PM
Quote
It's kind of ironic that more OOP was added in a language intended to support platforms that mostly host the simplest types of games: HTML, flash, Android, iOS.

lol that's just Mark ignoring his market, as usual.

I still approach a problem in a procedural way, quickly get the routine working, then move to OOP when I have working code.  I then put it into a more rigid OOP framework.  That's the problem with OOP, you really have to have a good picture of how things all fit together immediately - then implement.  But with game development, ideas and structures change throughout the development process.

But when you do have a good OOP structure, things come together very quickly.
Yeah, planing does seem to be the key.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Steve Elliott on September 15, 2017, 06:09:02 PM
Yes, but game development is very fluid - plans change!
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Rooster on September 15, 2017, 06:16:32 PM
Yes, but game development is very fluid - plans change!
They sure do.
I need to have a plan though. :P
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: meems on September 15, 2017, 06:22:34 PM
>Yes, but game development is very fluid - plans change!

Exactly. Program structure resists change and you don't know what ideas you might have tomorrow. Also I simply don't want to plan my code structure in my hobby programming. I find OOP and planning program structure to be backend clutter that ties me down and prevents getting more frontend code done.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Chroma on February 26, 2019, 03:39:15 PM
I know this is an old post but hey. I pledged too but finally realized I didn't want to switch every couple of years to the 'new' language. MonkeyX was alright, but Monkey2 seems to be a rehash with some changed syntax and I don't feel like jumping through that hoop again. These days I use Javascript and Pixi JS. And release through Cordova. I also mess about with Construct 3 for quick prototyping.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: 3DzForMe on February 26, 2019, 06:59:51 PM
Blitz basic still works, available for free these days to. Yeah, I used MonkeyX, just the HTML5 variant (despite purchasing the full thing doh!)

Code in whatever fulfills your needs.
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: Derron on February 26, 2019, 07:28:43 PM
Monkey x is free ...no need to limit to html5.
Of course you would nowerdays use cerberus x.


Bye
Ron
Title: Re: What happened to Blitzbasic
Post by: 3DzForMe on February 26, 2019, 10:04:05 PM
Of course.... Hmmm, if you're on a 64 bit machine. Not moi, yet.