SyntaxBomb - Indie Coders

General Category => Worklogs => Topic started by: iWasAdam on March 26, 2020, 08:44:53 AM

Title: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on March 26, 2020, 08:44:53 AM
first lets have a current pic:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/gp1..gif)

So it's a new version of Derron's Genus Prime. Above you can see a simple system with planets or different sizes. The numbers denotes the available ships. Bigger planets have more ships and can build faster too!

The general basics are now complete, the AI is where we are going to start this.
Step 1. How the flap do I do it?
Step 2. Make a start. for every 'occupied' planet have a tick. When the tick is triggered the AI or that planet will try to do something...
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on March 26, 2020, 09:51:24 AM
I am not speaking latin ... but I think to be able to use "prima" it should  be "Genu Prima" ?

You can of course use the original name and just append something (so you can kind of "subtitle" it)

Genus Prime
Advanced

Genus Prime
Generations ahead

Genus Prime Deluxe

Genus Prime: Ancestors

Genus Prime II (or 2)

...



Regarding AI: instead of giving individual items (here "planets") a tick I would have an AI which ticks - and knows about their planets. Depending on the difficulty of the AI the AI could skip "steps" (eg it can do 10 steps per tick) or "ticks" (if it is often enough "ticking"). So a slow acting AI can do less per "it is your turn to do something".
Another approach is to simulate different AIs by "characteristics". So an AI could have the property "micro management" which is 1.0 for "perfect". if it was 0.5 it means it has problems handling all the planets. Simple said: randomize the list of owned planets and then only handle "for 0 to Max(1, microManagement * planetCount)" (or do it with a "tan()" or so to emulate "burden" instead of a linear growth).
Same could be done for research and other stuff.
Multiple ways to "lower" or "fasten" what the AI can do.


Keep up refreshing us with information in this worklog.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Xerra on March 26, 2020, 03:13:22 PM
Are you going to have multiple systems, Adam? Or just stick with Sol? I'm maybe being picky but I'd really love to see that system with the real planets in it, not these made up names. Texturing the planets kind of how they look would also be a huge plus. You could apply creative licence to the fact that none in our system are habitable and maybe also use a few of the more well known larger objects from the Kuiper Belt. Arrokoth, Haumea, Makemake, Eris and especially Pluto !!!!
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on March 26, 2020, 05:00:15 PM
Non-habitable planets require terraforming to become "productive" - else production is rather "slow". Planets might indeed be needed as "interstation" for long-distance travels ...


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on March 27, 2020, 07:51:23 AM
I want to focus on the AI and the game part now, so it all feels fair. otherwise we'll just have something that looks pretty, but isn't fun to play :)

And... It all go ugly really quickly!
Very simple AI:
AI1 - find the closest planet that isn't yours and send some ships to it

it quickly populates and overwhelms you!

But in answer to the systems question. There are lots of systems 'sol' is just where you start  :P

Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on March 27, 2020, 08:33:45 AM
Sending ships to another planet is always a matter of "how much to send". In my game I only sent amount X.

X could (or should) be the the sum of "(population + population when possibly arriving)" + "planet owner ships seemingly sent to this planet as support" + "additional ships to lower risk"

You could even subtract ships of other races (if they would arrive earlier ... ).



If a race always sends "almost all ships" from all planets to a target planet (like a swarm of grasshoppers) then it would leave the other planets almost defenseless. This is why the AI should split their ships amongst their planets. You could easily have some kind of "this is what I need on my planet, that is what I could spare"-list which then can be used to have a kind of "effectively available ships"-formula (taking into consideration planet distance - as a long distance means it will maybe arrive when a planet already recouperated from a previous attack).


As long as AI fights each other you as a player will have a good chance to win or at least survive a bit :D


PS: Finish soon so you have time to tinker about multiplayer ... fast skirmish action is maybe something enjoyable.

bye
Ron 
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on March 27, 2020, 08:37:00 AM
multiplayer being you vs ai1 and ai2?

I'm also thinking about the enemy home. if it's attacked it will enlist the help of neighbouring planets - just a thought :)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on March 27, 2020, 01:02:15 PM
You could have missions in which the home planet is never to loose - there it can come handy to have "save our homes" tactics :D


@ Multiplayer
Human vs Human (over LAN, WAN ... not necessarily hotseat in addition :D).


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on March 27, 2020, 02:40:10 PM
little by little it comes together:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/screenshot-2020-03-27-at-14.33.40.png)

Each system will have a mission, these are now shown and will have all sorts of variations.
In this case it's mission 17 - Runari (Remove all enemies from this system)

Also shown above is the cartography connections map with four different locales/race plus the color and icon.

When you complete a mission you will get 'something' that will make your other tasks easier. Enhance ships, etc
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: blinkok on March 27, 2020, 09:47:51 PM
That looks lovely. You really have achieved a lot in a short time. Nice work
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Qube on March 27, 2020, 10:23:56 PM
Oo, looking way swishy ;D Look forward to giving it a whirl.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on March 28, 2020, 08:31:10 AM
Thanks guys - it's slowly coming together...

Here's an interesting thought question:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/screenshot-2020-03-28-at-08.25.59.png)
Sol Prime is desolate, toxic and waterless. But it has a high tech level and rich industry.

So what are they farming and where?

Maybe they are crystal farmers for hologram technology or have large travelling crawlers to collect minerals?

Although it's currently dressing, it has potential to expanded into something - what I'm not sure, but interesting all the same...  ;D
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on March 28, 2020, 09:36:15 AM
Do not forget something: keep it simple :D

While it is interesting to have all the various details of the planets - they should be mostly "hidden" or just a little "sugar on top" (so a planet has a little less growth in population etc).
It is good to have this in the "mission screen" or so but it should not become a overly complex strategy game (as you then have to move away from the "fast paced action mode" - might be interesting to play but maybe it does not come together then as you like - and then time is burned).

You could later on extend it into something else - but if you start too early, you might end up with a game not playing as you like - or even not be able to finish it properly (only "half arsed"). I do not want to put myself into the shiny light ... but people liked the kind of "simple" game play. So maybe aim for this too.

you can evolve it into a "Skirmish Master of Orion" mode later :)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on March 28, 2020, 12:59:54 PM
Yep agrees about the simplicity :) I was just showing some of the random data and how it 'could' be expanded upon later...

Here's the logo - showing on the information display complete with animated communication 'glitch'
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/screenshot-2020-03-28-at-12.56.49.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Matty on March 29, 2020, 11:10:25 PM
It looks good so far.

Derrons game Genus Prime reminds me of a game I wrote in late 2018 for browser which was this (admittedly very bare bones)  http://www.mattiesgames.com/galaxius/
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: blinkok on March 30, 2020, 03:01:42 AM
So very trekky! Nice
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 04, 2020, 12:39:55 PM
Utopia Shipyard: Hawk MK 1  :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-04-at-12.16.03.png)

and Raider:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-04-at-12.38.12.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 05, 2020, 03:31:15 PM
and finally a look at Utopia Shipyards with a ship and the UI  8)  :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/gp2.gif)

The ship is true 3d, with it's own renderer, but everything else is 2d! yay it worked!!!
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on April 05, 2020, 06:07:50 PM
Is the flat shading on the wings intended or does your engine not support smooth shading yet?


Aside of the usual nitpicking -- looks preeetty cool.

bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: 3DzForMe on April 06, 2020, 10:12:31 AM
Oh my, that's very impressive!
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 06, 2020, 11:50:48 AM
I'm trying my best  ;D

Now with options:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-06-at-11.48.41.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 08, 2020, 12:00:42 PM
maxed out ship with full communications arrays 8)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-08-at-11.58.28.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 08, 2020, 03:20:42 PM
Mark II with weapons and shields  :P
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-08-at-15.19.24.png)

Now I need to integrate all the systems into the maps and fighting :) that should be... ahem... fun?
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Matty on April 08, 2020, 03:28:49 PM
That looks beautiful.

I love the semi chipped paint effect on the surface of the ship. It looks like it is a real tangible asset.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Qube on April 08, 2020, 03:54:50 PM
Cor! looks great ;D I just hope you've enough time to put it all together :o
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: ImJustAnotherCoder on April 08, 2020, 04:41:31 PM
Very very nice!
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Steve Elliott on April 09, 2020, 12:49:26 AM
Very nice work.  Graphics now remind me of Red Dwarf, rather than Star Trek.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 09, 2020, 07:09:05 AM
hehehe Red dwarf brilliant :)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 10, 2020, 07:15:38 AM
ok, this is going to be soo left-field  :o

I was tinkering with some of the display stuff (yep something wasn't working) and an image appeared that sort of reminded me of a skull - no I'm not going to show it...

How about having a psychotic computer causing being the like to glue it all together. it will point things out, possibly set tasks and generally cause trouble along the way?
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Matty on April 10, 2020, 07:21:08 AM
What is your goal with the game?

Do you have a gameplay mechanic designed or thought through?

Is there an objective for the player at this point?

Your idea is interesting, but at this stage I cannot see what the base idea for the game is yet in any case...
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 10, 2020, 07:59:07 AM
yep. it's Derron's Genus Prime. where you search for domination over planet systems, upgrade ships and generally have a quick battle with the AI.

Base battle system complete
ship upgrade complete in visual form - needs to be integrated into the battle
UI complete

But there needed to be some glue to connect everything. I 'think' (or the lockdown has just sent me completely bonkers) that the computer might be the way to go?
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 10, 2020, 10:47:15 AM
Yep, not sure what the AI is going to be called - possibly Fandango?

sort of got the movements and expressions correct  ;D
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on April 10, 2020, 11:50:39 AM
Evil AI taking over the space dominion by making others fight each other - sounds like the arc of Star Trek:Picard Season 1 ...


@ upgrades etc
Want to repeat myself over and over: make sure that it still kind of "fast paced" else you will end up with a different kind of game - which of course might even be better ... just ensure you know what you do :)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 10, 2020, 03:04:39 PM
agreed. it's slowly coming together now :)

here's a pic wen the enemy ship speed was throttled (bug), but it looks like there has been a party round the planet Bezen :)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-10-at-15.01.59.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on April 10, 2020, 06:23:20 PM
"Rared" and "Burmes Home" expose that you do not properly center the font on the "circle". It is less obvious on "Bezen" and "Binuca Majo*" as the 0 seems to a pixel more "left". Maybe it is a matter of wrong glyph informations extracted from the font?

bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 18, 2020, 11:27:45 AM
ok, it's Saturday Screenshot (tech edition)...  ;D
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-18-at-11.20.08.png)

1. what is it
It's a space station - there are 3 of them in total

2. And what's interesting about it?
It shows a shader being linked into the render chain as a background shader. Then the 3d. This can now be separated so I can render just the 3d to a canvas and then add artificial alpha so 3d can now be on top of 2d

Will it be finished? We'll see. it will take as long as it takes...
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 18, 2020, 12:27:46 PM
and a communication satellite from behind...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-18-at-12.26.33.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: MrmediamanX on April 18, 2020, 08:01:17 PM
nice, do you plan on having the alien portraits?
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 21, 2020, 11:45:04 AM
not sure on that as yet - we'll see.

Here's something a bit more interesting:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-21-at-11.39.04.png)

it's the 2d (faux 3d) view. there is a shader creating the stars and nebula and all the 2d drawing stuff done next.
But wait... isn't that a full 3d station? YES......!

How the holy wotsits is going on?

the 3d station is being draw offscreen into a bitmap in 3d on a magenta background (the camera rotation is matched to the 2d). We are then drawing a quad at the correct position with the contents of the 3d botmap. a shader then removes the magenta and the magic just happpens :)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Matty on April 21, 2020, 03:37:15 PM
Looks good Adam.

I have a challenge for you which is this:
Create a shader to draw a 3d ship model cut in half along any axis and with the cut region appearing solid not hollow and with glowing fiery ember like pieces eg as if it has just been cut along an axis with a red hot knife.

It's a neat effect if you can get it right for beam weapons.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 21, 2020, 08:11:58 PM
That’s a very interesting suggestion. I’ll report back...
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Matty on April 21, 2020, 09:36:08 PM
A method I used was to have two models in the same position and with a pixel shader to draw with alpha zero all pixels on one side of an arbitrary plane and the other side normal.  It then involved drawing pixels projected on yo that plane where you would normally see rear facing triangles.  It worked but was too slow on mobile to look good.  I'll link a video to what I was going for:

https://youtu.be/n2_lQZFlKg4
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 22, 2020, 06:42:35 AM
Needed a bit of work and head scratching, but Here's the basic proof:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-22-at-06.35.03.png)

to make it look solid you would need to add geometry - I'm not sure that would look convincing, much better to use a second 'internal' model to add all the slice contents, base floor, etc.

the next step would be to take to concepts and add dirt, ragged edges, some animation, detail etc :)
Add in some explosions and particles (photoshopped)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-22-at-06.35.03-1.png)



Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Matty on April 22, 2020, 07:35:28 AM
Great.  Looks neat.

It can look nice in motion when it separates too...
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 22, 2020, 12:43:52 PM
hmm, you've given me an idea  ;D
Let's see what I can do...
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 22, 2020, 03:09:50 PM
and here's the result - thanks to Matty prompting me  ;D
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-22-at-15.07.52.png)

Given a win situation - you now get fireworks
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 23, 2020, 02:01:20 PM
still loads to do  :o

But managed to write a quick .obj importer. And it's 2d and not 3d  8)
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-23-at-13.58.18.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 25, 2020, 07:37:55 AM
Nothing to show for screenshot Saturday (you've had your lot  :P )
But some info on what I'm working on - hopefully get it all finished...

It's audio related. I'm going to try artificial speech! It will NOT be understandable, but it will be phonetic!
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on April 25, 2020, 09:33:37 AM
So best is to have some insect/arachnid-aliens "chr chr crrkkkk chr" :D


Repetition #143: keep the simple gameplay spirit if you do not want to create a "Master of Orion"-like game (which is not the worst you could do :D)



bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 25, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
OK so here's a screenshot for Saturday:  :P
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-25-at-11.35.24.png)

"Say Hola to my little friend"... It's the psychotic computer El Fandango!

And regaldless if anyone else enjoys things. I'm having a blast with the new synth and making sound fx :) \o/
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on April 25, 2020, 06:32:58 PM
Hope we do not have to manually target his "stop" button (bottom) or hammer a "fire missile" key :)


@ fonts
Think they (dialogue fonts) look a bit "standard" (not suiting to the sci fi setting). Surely on your "todo"


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 26, 2020, 06:56:35 AM
I looked at different fonts, but came back to clarity over look. I wanted it nice and clear what was being said :)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 27, 2020, 08:56:49 AM
Hmmmf. How do you get a computer with an identity crisis to give you help?
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on April 27, 2020, 12:26:38 PM
Give him something to byte - I mean bit-e - I ... you know what I mean!


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 27, 2020, 12:38:27 PM
I've come up with the start of a cast of loonies...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-27-at-12.35.14.png)

I just plugged some different models into the code. I can take a mix and match approach and see what we end up with :)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on April 27, 2020, 02:42:11 PM
I must confess: I am not a friend of this "verily broken speaking English". Computers can learn grammar _rules_ easily, so they should use the right words. Computers lack empathy. So they would just say "kill" because something occupies space a more efficient object could use instead.

Also for non-native speakers it can be more difficult to understand.


@ robot design
Just check out Benders friends in Futurama for ideas :D


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 28, 2020, 11:47:48 AM
I had a look at Futurama, but the robots all have a very distinctive look, otherwise I would have copied them ;)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on April 30, 2020, 12:31:53 PM
things are starting to be brought together  :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-30-at-12.30.01.png)

and after disabling all the satellites:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/screenshot-2020-04-30-at-12.36.18.png)

2d fireworks, explosions. 3d models, 2d layers, then 3d layers, then more 2d layers then more 3d layers
The fact anything works is brilliant.

Not sure how it will go down, but technically i'm impressed :)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on April 30, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
(https://imgur.com/96kJLaX.png)
dissable
disable


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 02, 2020, 08:04:38 AM
Not much time now.  :-X
Simplify the UI
remove features that can't be worked on and finished in time
Note to self - this is a huge project, did I take on too much?
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-02-at-08.01.29.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 02, 2020, 08:26:41 AM
that "PAID" stamp looks ... "artificial" (not suiting ot the rest of the theme). Just fade out (opacity and color saturation) the button below and replace "price tag" with "paid" in it ?


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 03, 2020, 10:57:42 AM
here's a quick look at the entire universe:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-03-at-10.55.42.png)
it's not showing the factions, just the amount of planetary systems to visit...
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 03, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
What is the difference between "Miajel / Ndeni" (center top) and "Aztan / Oranexa" (right of it) and "Aztan" (right of the other "Aztan").

I thought it might be "galaxy / planet" but then the single-name planets seem odd. The "subtitles" seem to be less often used, so it is not the "race" occupying it.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 03, 2020, 11:21:50 AM
these are all systems
the single Miajel is the home system
Miajel / Ndeni is the Ndeni system occupied by the Miajel race

Here's a look at things at the start of play:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-03-at-11.18.48.png)
You can see the systems with their icons and colors.

Different owners will have different powers, maybe faster ships, better AI, who can tell  :P

You will have to upgrade your ship to compete, but pick wisely...
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 03, 2020, 12:22:26 PM
Ok, so this explains the decreased brightness (or opacity?) of the "occupied systems".

If you did not have varying icons for the planets already I would suggest to have a special one for the "home system" too.
Depending on the effect for "hovered/selected" you might play with a slightly visible rounded rect around the home system - or a color tint (eg slightly more blue or so).
Maybe tinting slightly might be useful for the whole "occupied" thing ... depending on whether certain races are "easier" to fight - or have certain flaws and strengths which an individual player approach can compete better with than with others (so each player takes their own "route to conquer all").


Regarding "icons": I understand that you want to use your "2bit-bitmap-font-approach" but for icons it sometimes helps if they have some more color variation it (here "monochrome" is enough - so grayscale icons). This would maybe ease to "abstract" stuff like "space ships / space stations" (or whatever the icons want to tell me).
also allow your bitmap fonts to do anti-aliasing to avoid "jagged edges" next to the anti-aliased fonts.

Yes - for now I am not sure about the icons and it is always better if icons are "self explanatory" in some way. You could get away with non-self-explanatory-icons if you introduce them "step by step" (like new spells/skills).
Else it _will_ be overwhelming for new players.


PS: the icon's "y-offset" seems a bit odd on single-line elements like "D-3". Maybe center the one or two line texts next to the icon ... or surround them with a slightly visible 90°-angled quarter part of a rect (maybe even fading out towards the texts)
Code: [Select]

 _
|   
o  two line text
|_


Another thing: In your screenshot the texts of the systems are "orange brown" - the same for the (a bit jaggy - maybe because of screenshot  resizing - looking) lines from center to systems. These lines should be _behind_ the systems and maybe have a different opacity - as then crossing lines might "multiply" you might need to consider just using darker brown or rendering to special texture/canvas for proper handling of the unwanted multiply.
Maybe having "dashed lines" (as indicator of "can reach it") might already do well?


And something else: "D-*" systems look like "D- *" (as if the minus sign is melt with the D).



Am excited to play it - so ensure it is welcoming, easy to learn and hard to master and does not lack a little introduction/tutorial (skippable :D).

You also did not mention the music for now ... wonder what you will come up with.

bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 03, 2020, 02:01:27 PM
ooh music. hmmm
Not really music this time round. More soundscapes.
Think Alien. Dark, deep and cold!

All sorts of slow moving elements to the sounds and effects.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Xerra on May 04, 2020, 10:45:34 AM
That's a lot more systems than Supremacy ever had to conquer back in the 90's :)

I loved that game so much when I played it on my Amiga. Probably why I took so well to Genus Prime when I first played it. It's the closest that a game experience has come to it.

Still think you should adopt real planet names and satellites for Sol, though. I will not give up on nagging you about this. Too much of a space geek I am, and it would mean much more conquering the planet Neptune or the satellite Titan than Equirek, or other unknown names.

Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 04, 2020, 11:07:41 AM
maybe for the next version :)
real planet names wouldn't quite fit with the cast of oddballs i've got:
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-04-at-10.56.21.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 04, 2020, 03:26:17 PM
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-04-at-15.25.11.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 04, 2020, 03:43:36 PM
Maybe replace that "planet circles" with a sprite - so it becomes "smooth" when scaled. For now you have a mix of:
- anti aliased fonts
- a glowing sun (not "pixel style")
- pixelated circles for planets - maybe even "varying" their pixelation when scaling them slightly during "3d rotation movement".


also the "number" on the planets is offset by "x=1" (or 2?). It is only visible on the "4" and the "11". The "5" on Enaneiner Major seems to be even "leaning" to the left. I have a little suspicion that it is the font which returns "hinted" values


- the greenish oval shape behind the robot: the very left and very right portion look "truncated" - if you use some kind of "viewport" or "render target" you might have to add 1 to the left and 1 to the right).


- the redish "STAR SYSTEM" panel-button ... look at the last "E" ... it looks as if the stars blend too much through it. Might be OK if the normal "raw color" of the panel was a lot brighter and it is just drawn with 40% opacity (making bright stars "shine through").


- the planet oval outline containing "Renena" (and other ovals too) contain visible "black spots" as if the line was not drawn there (check eg straight down from "Srinase"). Is something covering it - or is the oval-in-3d-drawn-as-2d doing something it shouldn't ?



PS: It is nitpicking as always but as you do no give me something to play I need to limit myself to the graphic shots you post here.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Xerra on May 04, 2020, 09:13:05 PM
Patience, Ron. 6 days and it'll be out there. Can't imagine Adam won't get it out there for the deadline.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 07, 2020, 11:33:41 AM
Well, time is ticking and I'm in full on panic mode. This means taking your own advice and simplify plus making sure that all UI stuff all fits together properly:

(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-07-at-11.30.16.png)

Boy, there has been loads of stuff removed and the games feels tighter because of it :)

Still more to do thought. tick tick tick...

On the plus side I've got the vocal stuff finished and also written all the speech stuff!
FEEL MY TOXIC TENDRILS
MAKE MINE A DIODE SODA
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 08, 2020, 10:42:08 AM
getting to close now - tick tick tock
But managed to add another 'missing' feature into the game: Lazers
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-08-at-10.38.40.png)

So now you have 2 type of weapon upgrade. And not forgetting the enemy also have these too and will not hesitate to fight back!

Matty will be pleased as there are now potential battles for you to watch and shout at the screen as either you get the enemy or they get you... Fair - never  8)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Matty on May 08, 2020, 10:54:47 AM
Thanks. I do like the look of it.  I just hope you get it to a state you are happy with by the deadline.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 08, 2020, 10:56:24 AM
@Matty - once it's out the door and the comp is over we can lock heads and come up with a new version :)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 08, 2020, 02:48:05 PM
the end is in view...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-08-at-14.47.03.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Xerra on May 08, 2020, 04:48:29 PM
 :o

Droids: Who dat nutter? That a credits screen? :-)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 08, 2020, 07:01:18 PM
credits? Gtrotzits!


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 09, 2020, 10:44:37 AM
Grotzits  :o

There is no saturday screen shot...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-09-at-10.41.07.png)

Or maybe there is...

maybe with live head tracking and more speech...
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 09, 2020, 12:39:00 PM
Grotzits  :o

No !
Gtrotzits!

(https://imgur.com/n8PNs5w.png)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 09, 2020, 01:47:23 PM
oh well spotted Mr. Eagle Eyes  :(
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: 3DzForMe on May 09, 2020, 01:58:56 PM
I like it - pronounced Gee-trotzits, sounds a little bit Russian.....

And seeing as it was an old Russian first into Space, old Yuri (Well, the 1st one that succeeded at any rate) quite fitting ;)

Also, I love the space ship, such quality. West probably isn't Best here ;)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 10, 2020, 08:06:54 AM
Repeat after me: I'm going to finish it, I'm going to finish in time...  :o
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-10-at-08.04.23.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: MrmediamanX on May 10, 2020, 09:18:06 AM
I hope you finish it man, I really want to give it jam.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 10, 2020, 12:55:07 PM
compile - ok
switch platform

compile crash
fix compiler...
repeat
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Xerra on May 10, 2020, 04:13:07 PM
I really hope you get this out today, mate. Looking forward to seeing what you've done with the game, I really am.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 11, 2020, 12:05:58 PM
After a very nasty windows compile headache (lots of files transfered and debugged and made operational)...

So now for the official unveiling:
Game Title : Genus Prime II (The Droid Revolt)
Game competition chosen: 8 bit wars
Game chosen : Genus Prime
Download link and OS requirements :
https://adamstrange.itch.io/genusprime-ii-droid-revolt (https://adamstrange.itch.io/genusprime-ii-droid-revolt)
MacOS and Windows 10 (64bit)
Required dependancies :
OpenGL 1.2
Brief info about your game :
Droid have run amok in the outer system. Take back control by any mean possible and get back the 3 data cores...
Any screen shots :
(https://img.itch.zone/aW1hZ2UvNjQwMDA2LzM0Mjg2MjcucG5n/347x500/BWD3pv.png)
(https://img.itch.zone/aW1hZ2UvNjQwMDA2LzM0Mjg2MjkucG5n/347x500/NwXhIg.png)
(https://img.itch.zone/aW1hZ2UvNjQwMDA2LzM0Mjg2MjgucG5n/347x500/kJxVAb.png)
(https://img.itch.zone/aW1hZ2UvNjQwMDA2LzM0Mjg2MjYucG5n/347x500/bAi5q5.png)
(https://img.itch.zone/aW1hZ2UvNjQwMDA2LzM0Mjg2MzEucG5n/347x500/bfxfCk.png)
Media information :
All media, 3d models, textures, visuals, sound creation and sound scapes by me
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 11, 2020, 01:27:31 PM
(https://imgur.com/ykIVjXW.png)

Does that first sentence on the left end with a "a." - sounds like a variable was empty?

PS: Second sentence does - in comparison to the first - not end with a "."

PPS: you could have a "units" setting for "celsius/fahrenheit" (and others you might use in the game). Would save to write two variants in the temperature line (and maybe speed information somewhere else).



(https://imgur.com/ljIR7So.png)
First sentence does not end with "." and second sentence starts with lower case.


(https://imgur.com/XIclABc.png)
The orangish numbers are aligned with the sprite dimension including the drop shadow ... I think without including the drop shadow the numbers should be displaced by 2-3 pixels on y.
Also they look a bit "pixelated" (just judging on the static screenshot - so if they are animated this becomes an invalid point - except you would prefer a bilinear filtered scaling).



Hope it plays as well as it looks - but I am waiting 1-2 days for a linux version so I can enjoy it on my normal computer rig.
 

bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 12, 2020, 05:56:06 AM
Linux version has appeared... :o
https://adamstrange.itch.io/genusprime-ii-droid-revolt (https://adamstrange.itch.io/genusprime-ii-droid-revolt)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 12, 2020, 11:37:12 AM
Thanks. Now I just need sparetime :D

"The original GenusPrim can be found here :)" ... Prim prim prim...


Edit: quick notes...
- linux version works
- "vocals" of the robots are 0% understandable - so they ... do not even reminiscene "language" (might be a linux audio bug?)
- game starts right into the "intro" and then some game ... better have a main menu and show the intro only on "new game"
- mousewheel "zooms", but the zoom is quite "low" and requires a constant "scroll scroll scroll" to reach a certain point, constant mousewheel scrolling should "add" (1, 2, 4 ... until a max scroll speed)

(https://imgur.com/Y0Y3xNB.png)
Hmm ... able to click on the entries/systems ... but then? Clicked again and nothing happened ... maybe a double click should "start" it.
How should a new player now know how to proceed? there is something on the left - hover on it and the menu entries pop up ... what do they do?

- clicked on "system" entry and got a little "introduction" by el fandango ... clicked then on "Help - how to play" (visible from then on) ... and the audio did some "clipping" here and there.
- then suddenly it just became a "chrrrrrrrrrrr" sound as if the sound engine was "hanging" (while still other sounds were played) ... tried to mute voice and music - which muted them but that "chrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" sound stayed until I exited the application.


Started it again:
- made with mx2 logo appears
- clicking the mouse here (to skip the logo) leads to skipping the first el-fandango screen and already the "speak English"-moment is displayed on the screen
- when clicking on "star system" the introduction appears - and I already am able to click on "activate", so the game starts while the introduction "monologue" is still presented - maybe disable "activate clicks" or pause the game until the monologue ends
- sending ships the "alright" is clearly understandable (so dunno about the above bug with the robot dialogues)
- "additive selecting" with mouse left button ... seems I need to get used to (if you are used to "LMB pressed for border select"  ... and Middle Mouse Button for rotation)
- when I conquered the last planet __immediately__ el fandango appeared and told me something ... give it a short "breathe" to enjoy your win - so ... wait a literal second ?

Most "odd" for now: when I send ships, I send __all__ from a planet leaving it at "0" (so defenseless?). In "original GenusPrime" I only sent half of the population. If you sent again, another half is sent ... so just click multiple times if you need to send "more".


As said ... just quick notes of the 10 minutes I had to jump into trying the game in my lunch break.

bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 12, 2020, 12:06:45 PM
interesting point about the amount of ships sent - i'll look into that :)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 12, 2020, 02:49:17 PM
thought this was interesting to post here - we've got the heads...
(https://vjointeractive.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/screenshot-2020-05-12-at-14.47.39.png)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Imerion on May 12, 2020, 09:52:38 PM
I posted this in the main competition thread too, but I thought I might as well post here too:

I really liked Genus Prime, so I appreciate you took a stab at a successor. The gameplay remains super fun and there are lots of nice graphics! The characters and their animations are especially great, the 3D-ish starmap was cool and I love the Star Trek-like UI. The game crashed when I clicked to spend my first Grotzits (did I get that right?). Perhaps because I hadn't clicked away the tutorial textbox first? I tried again but then it crashed when clicking on Shipyard. Terminal said:
"Can't find //@vertex chunk
{{!DEBUG!}}"
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 13, 2020, 05:39:39 AM
linux bug confirmed and being worked on :)

sorted and upped to V1.01
https://adamstrange.itch.io/genusprime-ii-droid-revolt (https://adamstrange.itch.io/genusprime-ii-droid-revolt)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Imerion on May 15, 2020, 12:17:34 PM
Now it all works great! No crashes on Linux and I've played several levels and tested most game systems, like upgrading. Again, a really nice and fun game!
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 15, 2020, 12:47:57 PM
No crashes yay \o/  ;D
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: 3DzForMe on May 16, 2020, 09:52:56 AM
Morning iwasadam, tried to access your Linux download from my Linux VM, failed as I couldn't reset the clock so tinternet would work..... Got as far as using the man pages for time and thought.... Sod it, I'm choosing the easier path.

So, back in Windows 10 land.......

Love how you're game starts with the NPCz, need to just suss the UI a little more in game.... Looks great though! Awesome job.  ;D
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 16, 2020, 10:07:12 AM
Lol at the linux issues -it’s a bugger isn’t it

But glad you are getting into it 😀
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Xerra on May 17, 2020, 09:58:12 PM
Stupid me has left it a bit late to have a crack at Genus Prime because I thought I'd end up playing it the most so I prioritised going through the other games first. Something is definitely up with it on my system (Mac) so made some notes as i was trying to play through the first level. Some of it can be ignored for now but its the possible glitches that maybe can be fixed if I'm doing something wrong?

Mouse zoom option to switch it so you can zoom in by rolling up. It defaults the other way, which is probably standard, but I prefer my method.

Presentation is great. Droids talking to introduce the game.

Love the droid designs on the information screens. Reminds me very much of using a terminal in the game Paradroid on the C64.

Sound playback seems borked. Lots of scratching and buzzing which sounds like radio feedback. Is that meant to be the effect?

Sent all the troops to starsat 7 and some broken explosions glitched every so often round it and other random areas on the screen. Something doesn't look right about how this is happening. Maybe something wrong with the game on my machine?

The droid that rotates on the screen when you complete the 1st level is glitchy and stuff like fireworks are appearing through it. The fireworks are also really slow and glitchy so something is definitely up for me.

When opened up the game creates a massive window at least three to four times the width of my screen. I use the window button to full screen it but everything is choppy and laggy and the sound distortion in background is definitely screwed up.

Has anyone done a play of the game on youtube or something so I can see how it's running normally and see if it is just me that seems to have it running really poorly?
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Xerra on May 17, 2020, 10:14:33 PM
Ok, I downloaded current version on Itch for Mac and same issues still present. I pulled down the Windows version and run it via Parallels and it seems to be ok running there, although there is a bit of scratchy sounds in the background noise. Not sure if that's actually deliberate for atmosphere or not?

Will play through it properly on Windows for now as I've given you jack-shit time to actually investigate what my OSX version issues are before bug fix deadline. Sorry.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: 3DzForMe on May 17, 2020, 10:15:36 PM
It was a little glitchy for me too, thought it was down to me having loads other stuff running concurrently. Maybe not though.

This was W10, and my 3d stuff struggles on my laptop also. Need to build another desktop....
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 17, 2020, 10:17:45 PM


This is how v1.01 sounds on my Linux box.


Something which still annoys (and is visible in the video):
- I can press "activate" while the introduction monologue is displayed
- I cannot send ships from an "owned planet" to another "owned planet" (eg to collect forces ...)
- left box select not possible :D ... it rotates the galaxy, people are used to left-mouse-button-down-box-select !


That "alright" and "activated" sounds - use they the same approach as in the dialogues? As I understand them but none of the dialogues.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Xerra on May 17, 2020, 11:07:49 PM
My sound is definitely more scratchy but playing the game looks about right.

I think you might have missed a few gameplay features, Ron, judging by how you were playing the video and your comments.

You can send ships from one planet to another to reinforce. Right clicking outside of any planet will toggle all the planets you currently own on or off. I right click to switch them all off, left click once on the planet I'm sending troops from so the yellow target mark appears. I can then left click to send some troops to another planet, or right click to send the lot. That's how it seems to me.


Adam I've made a few more notes which I'll throw in here from my progress so far.

Genus Prime
-----------

Mac issues below. I switched to Windows on parallels to play it properly:

Sound playback seems borked. Lots of scratching and buzzing which sounds like radio feedback. Is that meant to be the effect?

Sent all the troops to starsat 7 and some broken explosions glitched every so often round it and other random areas on the screen. Something doesn't look right about how this is happening. Maybe something wrong with the game on my machine?

The droid that rotates on the screen when you complete the 1st level is glitchy and stuff like fireworks are appearing through it. The fireworks are also really slow and glitchy so something is definitely up for me.

When opened up the game creates a massive window at least three to four times the width of my screen. I use the window button to full screen it but everything is choppy and laggy and the sound distortion in background is definitely screwed up.

Windows version:

Mouse zoom option to switch it so you can zoom in by rolling up. It defaults the other way, which is probably standard, but I prefer my method.

Presentation is great. Droids talking to introduce the game and the star wars credits etc.

Love the droid designs on the information screens. Reminds me very much of using a terminal in the game Paradroid on the C64.

Right clicking on one of your own planets seems to make half the occupants disappear. Don't know what's happening there?!?!?!

I was generally a bit lost following the game as I seemed to be able to go to the cartography screen, pick any planet and start playing on it, even if another one is in progress. On these games some planets were conquerable (with the green cursor) and some not. It's rather confusing.

Maximising window seems to lose most of the droids on the right side and bottom of the window on the droid info page.

Even with sound and music turned off there is still some background noise going on. This could be due to sound issues on my machine and parallels as Ron's definitely didn't have the scratchy stuff in the background i'm getting.

Star system and cartography selection becomes disabled when you are in a star system and then click on a planet. If you click on planet data then star system becomes available and you can then click on that to reactivate cartography. This may be something to do with you actually playing that system and you shouldn't leave until it's completed?!?!?

I clicked on a system that said not accessible yet but i was still able to bring up the star map and start sending ships onto the elements there, although they didn't seem to take it over. This was on the D-3 System which is full of just StarSat satellites.

I'm unable to take over some systems as the planets aren't attackable in some areas. Very confusing as they didn't attack me either so my planets all just went up to 40 armies and that was it. A system with a time limit is unobtainable (Anenine Prima) because I can't attack any other planet but the bastards could attack me. One thing i did notice is that I could sometimes access another planet if I sent a load of troops straight into the Sun first. Am I missing something? Is this a range things because I did check all of them in the systems.

When joining into a new star system it sometimes starts zoomed so far out that you don't know what's going on until it's too late. I lost a game too quickly to be able to do anything about it in Ek'Tak Sasra.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 18, 2020, 06:33:36 AM
Hmmm lots to think about there.

pink screen bug confirmed and being fixed - see how quick that is if you tell me?

@Xerra - what is your mac (dat, speed, screen)?
Quote
glitchy and stuff like fireworks are appearing through it
it was designed like that, but point taken and new 'El Fandango' model and texture tweaked to remove holes

rightclick planet ocupants halved - confirmed and fix on the way

zoomed out star system confirms

@Sound - looks like the radio static is not being dissabled!

would have been great to have had these earlier  >:( then they could have all been addressed
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Xerra on May 18, 2020, 07:16:23 AM
Yup, I should have tried it out earlier. A I explained, I left it till last as I expected I'd need to put a fair bit of time into it. My bad :(

Specs in image below.
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 18, 2020, 07:47:15 AM
@ Xerra

I clicked on a planet - selected it. Left clicked on another planet and it sends.
But if the "another planet" was a one owned by me then it selects this planet instead.


@ Adam
I mentioned these issues before (next to others).


Still question open:
Quote
That "alright" and "activated" sounds - use they the same approach as in the dialogues? As I understand them but none of the dialogues.


PS: for final playing I will boot Windows on the Laptop or on my wifes computer (where you tested your binary for).

bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 18, 2020, 08:15:23 AM
the retina macs seem to throw up all sorts of wierd things with screen sizes - you up for some tiny app testing? I can send you an app which will attempt to diagnose some of the issues?
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 18, 2020, 08:40:35 AM
should have another release before the end of day  :-X
final version 1.02 is now released. Use this for the competition:
https://adamstrange.itch.io/genusprime-ii-droid-revolt (https://adamstrange.itch.io/genusprime-ii-droid-revolt)
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 18, 2020, 12:26:19 PM
Something for later: The "animated green rect" is not centered on the planet (think it ignores the rotation-displacement).
(also the window title says still 1.01)

(https://i.imgur.com/829pyZx.png)

(edit: seems the outside circle of the planets - see Genus Prime planet - is offset by 1,1 pixels)


PS: Asking 3rd time: is the audio in the dialogues "to understand" or not? The command-confirmatio sound is understandable - the dialogues not.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: iWasAdam on May 19, 2020, 07:43:47 AM
@Derron. mmmmmm. Are you (or have you ever been) an advanced space droid? if the answer is no, then you probably wont understand what another droid is saying...  :o
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: Derron on May 19, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
You also could just have written: "no you should not be able to understand them".

I understood your "text to speach" approach a bit differently it seems.



Instead of "typwriter effect" you could also use a "decode effect" (so some other characters are displayed first until a system decrypted the robotic language).
BTW they could also talk "one o o o o o one one one one o o o o" :D


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Reboot comp: Genus Prima
Post by: 3DzForMe on May 19, 2020, 07:45:24 PM
Or they could be singing, in the voice of Bonnie Tyler, 'I need a zero..... I'm holding out for a zero until the end of the byte.....'. Sorry, I'll get my coat.
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