SyntaxBomb - Indie Coders

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dawlane on June 16, 2017, 06:21:32 PM

Title: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: dawlane on June 16, 2017, 06:21:32 PM
So according to this article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40302410) and blog (https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/06/15/developers-use-spaces-make-money-use-tabs/) if you use spaces instead of tabs you get paid more.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Matty on June 16, 2017, 10:58:01 PM
How bizarre.

Formatting counts.....

I wonder if it is related to the system being used. Arcane systems that cant handle tabs might have more highly paid rare specialists.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: TomToad on June 17, 2017, 10:03:47 AM
These articles seem to be worded to give you the impression they want you to have.  When I see something which has been "proven" by studies or surveys, I need to look to see just how the surveys are done.  Many times I find that questions have been worded to create the wanted answers, or articles leave out small, but important information that could change your perception.

In this instance, we have 28,657 people surveyed.  Out of that, 40.7% say they use exclusively tabs, 41.8% use exclusively spaces; However, only 12,426 people also provided salary information.  The article does not mention the percentage of space/tab users within that 12,426. This is an important piece of information needed to interpret the results correctly.  In an extreme case, if all space users reported their salary, that would be 11,978 people using spaces and reporting salary vs 447 people using tabs and reporting their salary.  That is way to large of a difference to make any conclusion about who is highest paid.

Now I doubt that the extreme case above is the reality, but what is the actual division?  75%, 50%? 10%?  We don't know and therefore cannot make any valid assumptions as to what is better.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Xaron on June 17, 2017, 10:26:46 AM
Every company I've worked for had coding guidelines which enforce the usage of tabs. There's a good reason for this.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Krischan on June 17, 2017, 12:50:58 PM
I'm a "tabber" and I'll stay with tabs (ok, I dont' get paid for coding but the readability is better with tabs IMHO). And I don't believe surveys in general.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Xaron on June 17, 2017, 01:22:30 PM
Krischan, how can the readability be better? It looks exactly the same. But as soon as you work in teams and you need to use the same. And as some tend to press space sometimes instead of tab there is only one way to ensure that it will always everywhere look the same, no matter which IDE you use... ;)
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Krischan on June 17, 2017, 01:33:08 PM
Ok, perhaps the readability is the same. But one tab is four spaces and it's easier to create or delete them than this huge amount of spaces. A disadvantage is posting sourcecode in a forum, my sources were sometimes messed up using tabs in the old bb.com forum but I never switched over to spaces because of that.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Xaron on June 17, 2017, 01:48:21 PM
Look here we go already. So a tab is four spaces on your system, but could be 2 or 8 on another one.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Rooster on June 17, 2017, 07:39:55 PM
I didn't know about using tabs, you lean something new every day.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Brucey on June 17, 2017, 08:55:09 PM
That's that then. Consider me a space convert.

Now to start applying for a new job!
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: therevills on June 18, 2017, 02:00:59 AM
My works forced coding standards are 2 spaces for indents.

Of course everyone still hits the tab key, but we configure the IDE to convert tabs to 2 spaces :)
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Qube on June 18, 2017, 03:53:37 AM
Gee, I can just imagine incorporating this into charging clients...

Me : Here is the quote for the project we discussed
Client : < reads through quote >
Client : Hmm, I see there are two possible charges here?. One says if you use tabs it's X amount but if you use spaces you'll charge us 20% more!
Me : Yes, that's correct
Client : Tabs, spaces? What's the difference?, What are the benefits to us?
Me : No difference and no benefits. It a choice like if I paint your walls using up and down strokes or down and up strokes.
Client : USE FUCKING TABS!!!!

I can't believe for one second that a person who uses spaces rather than tabs generally gets paid more money. I would hazard a guess that in the data there are companies that have enforced a certain style that incidentally pay more money which has skewered the result.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: EdzUp on June 18, 2017, 07:48:03 AM
everywhere I've worked uses Tabs and systems that have ranged from IBM XT's using DOS to today's stuff.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Steve Elliott on June 18, 2017, 06:55:44 PM
Quote
My works forced coding standards are 2 spaces for indents.

2?!  You might as well not bother indenting at all!
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Xaron on June 18, 2017, 07:02:05 PM
2 is standard in our company as well.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Rooster on June 18, 2017, 07:30:42 PM
Quote
My works forced coding standards are 2 spaces for indents.

2?!  You might as well not bother indenting at all!
Yeah, it's fifty spaces or don't indent at all. :P

Seriously though, I use two spaces as well.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: EdzUp on June 18, 2017, 07:54:10 PM
2 is standard in our company as well.

I always indent 4
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Steve Elliott on June 18, 2017, 08:22:57 PM
Yep 4 spaces, or it's pretty much pointless and leads to cluttered code.
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Xaron on June 18, 2017, 08:30:43 PM
Why does it lead to cluttered code?  :o

I mean obviously some guys have had some deep thinking, there must be a reason to put 2 space indention into a company policy for over 1,000 employees? ;)
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Steve Elliott on June 18, 2017, 08:36:07 PM
Because when you get to any nested code it becomes a mess.

You're saying all large companies make the best decisions every time?
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Xaron on June 18, 2017, 08:39:19 PM
Haha no. Got me. :)
Title: Re: Programmers who use spaces 'paid more'
Post by: Steve Elliott on June 18, 2017, 08:43:48 PM
lol it doesn't make things any quicker, because modern systems correctly fill out the 4 spaces with a click of the tab key.

And the more complicated code becomes, the more there is a need for the (usual) standard of 4 spaces.  Having just 2 seems to indicate people are making their functions/procedures too wordy, so they are trying to cram everything onto one line!
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