SyntaxBomb - Indie Coders

General Category => Worklogs => Topic started by: Steve Elliott on February 03, 2019, 11:22:29 PM

Title: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 03, 2019, 11:22:29 PM
My entry for the current game competition.

It's a Speccy game, but for the ears of forum users I'm going with the Spectrum 128 with it's updated sound chip.

And for the eyes of forum users I'll be scaling up the Spectrum 256 X 192 pixels by 4 to give a decent screen size on modern computers.

Screenshots to follow.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Xerra on February 03, 2019, 11:26:19 PM
My entry for the current game competition.

It's a Speccy game, but for the ears of forum users I'm going with the Spectrum 128 with it's updated sound chip.

And for the eyes of forum users I'll be scaling up the Spectrum 256 X 192 pixels by 4 to give a decent screen size on modern computers.

Screenshots to follow.

This makes me remember a Vic 20 game called Crazy Cavey. Another Mastertronic effort.

Definitely a Speccy favoritism this competition from all the entries we're aware of.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 03, 2019, 11:34:27 PM
Ah just googled that, and no, gameplay is nothing like my Crazy Caves.

Well I grew up with the ZX Spectrum  (as did all my mates) so no surprise.  And the Speccy had the highest resolution, a major point when trying to upscale on modern screen resolutions.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 03, 2019, 11:41:06 PM
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It's a Speccy game, but for the ears of forum users I'm going with the Spectrum 128 with it's updated sound chip.
A very wise choice as I doubt anyone will appreciate the screeches of the 48K blasting into their headphones or booming through a subwoofer :o
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 03, 2019, 11:47:35 PM
lol the rivalry is still alive.  But it could be worse.  It could have C64 mega blocky graphics with a washed out palette.  ;D

Swings and roundabouts, 8-bit computers all had strengths and weaknesses.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 04, 2019, 12:18:19 AM
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lol the rivalry is still alive.
Sorry, I did mean to write "The glorious subtle beeps of pure joy" ;D

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Swings and roundabouts, 8-bit computers all had strengths and weaknesses.
This is true but each had their own charm :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 04, 2019, 10:48:08 AM
Massive progress *cough*   ;D

Well it's a start.  A coin and some gems.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 04, 2019, 11:03:01 AM
Yay \o/ you’ve started ;D

I see you’re not doing the whole pixel colour limit of the 48k but the more freedom of the 128 :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 04, 2019, 11:09:45 AM
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Yay \o/ you’ve started ;D

Yes, at last lol.  I've been working on game ideas, but always nice to make a start on some graphics.

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I see you’re not doing the whole pixel colour limit of the 48k but the more freedom of the 128 :)

Yes I'm going for the 'look and feel' with the original Speccy Palette and the same resolution (all-be-it scaled up by 4 so things aren't too small).  But even though I'm using the Speccy Palette, I'm allowing myself the luxury of pixel colour, rather than block colour.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 04, 2019, 12:45:12 PM
You control your character Miner 'Bob' around the Crazy Caves collecting coins and gems, while avoiding deadly spikes and lava pits...Later enemies appear too (if I have time).

Graphics characters a whopping 8 X 8 pixels each on a 256 X 192 Speccy res screen, scaled-up by 4 to avoid the requirement of a magnifying glass (but you still get the same play area as a Speccy game).
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 04, 2019, 05:07:13 PM
I see you've managed to squeeze a whole little chap into 8x8 :o nice one
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 04, 2019, 05:28:53 PM
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I see you've managed to squeeze a whole little chap into 8x8 :o nice one

Thanks, it was a bit tricky but I needed the characters to be small compared to a full cave level.  I'll add animation frames later, but I'll need to produce some cave levels and get the game working first.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 04, 2019, 09:23:58 PM
Tweaked the graphics...
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 05, 2019, 02:12:01 PM
Added a basic scanline effect (without adding extra colours).
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on February 05, 2019, 03:44:03 PM
The scanlines add to the pixel totals. Think you should make that optional.

bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 05, 2019, 04:17:54 PM
Not really, they're on a different layer and the resolution is higher on that layer.  Resolution is not limited according to the rules.  And even if I merged the sprite and scan line layer in Photoshop, to produce a 'baked-in' sprite with scanlines I think this would still be within the rules.

What I'm doing is working on the basis that the play area is 1024 X 768 (which is 4 times the Speccy resolution of 256 X 192) so sprites aren't too small on a modern computer.

For that size of game play area my characters need to be 8 X 8 pixel sprites.  To make them a reasonable size and to give a pixelated look I've magnified them by 4 and saved them in Photoshop at that size.

Now I'm running the game in 1920 X 1080 (no limit on resolution according to the rules, just look and feel).  This gives the next layer of black scan lines a thin enough appearance, and then overlay them on top of the sprites.  The outside of play area will either be left black or a border added.

Hopefully that is not against the rules - Qube?  I personally think optional graphical features should be left until after the competition.  But this approach adds resolution (without effecting the 8-bit look and feel - and palette).

Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Xerra on February 05, 2019, 04:50:02 PM
Not really, they're on a different layer and the resolution is higher on that layer.  Resolution is not limited according to the rules.

Think the scan-lines look good. Should hope resolution is not limited as I've doubled mine already.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 05, 2019, 05:07:37 PM
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Not really, they're on a different layer and the resolution is higher on that layer.  Resolution is not limited according to the rules.

Think the scan-lines look good. Should hope resolution is not limited as I've doubled mine already.

Thanks Xerra, I think scanlines add a nice textured look and seem more authentic when emulating old hardware.  But I wanted to approximate scanlines without adding extra colours or alpha - which *is* against the rules.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 05, 2019, 08:00:07 PM
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Hopefully that is not against the rules - Qube?  I personally think optional graphical features should be left until after the competition.  But this approach adds resolution (without effecting the 8-bit look and feel - and palette).
Nope, there are no rules regarding resolution. The colour palette you have to use so we're all working with the same colours of our chosen machine ( as there are variants out there ). Strictly speaking there are no rules on alpha either as that falls into voting category 3 :

As mentioned in the rules : "You do not need to go into crazy minute detail emulating your chosen 8-bit computer. You also do not need to use the resolution of your chosen computer. However, your game must clearly be recognisable as a game of that chosen computer."

For example my Speccy palette is actually 17 colours as I use 0,0,1 to represent a black outline on sprites. To the eye it's a black outline so still falls well in with "your game must clearly be recognisable as a game of that chosen computer"
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on February 05, 2019, 09:21:18 PM
Hmm, seems I used the wrong words. It was not about the "resolution" of something.

Ok, assume you have a 4x4 pixel sprite. You render it out "scaled up" by eg. 2x. Your sprite is rendered in a size of 8x8 pixels, each pixel of the original image has a size of 2x2 pixels on the screen.
So far no problem - as we surely all do it that way.

The issue I see is, that your scanline results in the sprite being no longer 8x8 pixel but 11x11 pixel (a black scanline on the left, middle, right + top, middle, bottom). On a CRT you would have colors "melt together" - your black lines would avoid that or add other effects (the act as "contrast emphasizers"). Similar is to see on a TFT - you can recognize individual pixels (talking about the old 1024x768 15" inch screens some of us had in the early tft days - or do you remember "netbooks" ? ;-)).

I like the effect as it looks like an LCD display or so - still it is something which might not be intended.


Regardless of above: there is no "rule" stopping us from experimenting so keep going - just wanted to explain myself.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 05, 2019, 11:08:03 PM
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On a CRT you would have colors "melt together" - your black lines would avoid that or add other effects (the act as "contrast emphasizers"). Similar is to see on a TFT

I like the effect as it looks like an LCD display or so - still it is something which might not be intended.

Regardless of above: there is no "rule" stopping us from experimenting so keep going - just wanted to explain myself.

Yes, and thanks.  It does give clean lines (like a LCD) but it was just a way of breaking up 'blobs of colour' some emulators produce when emulating older systems on modern monitors.  The rules said no extra colours (just the palette provided, but extra resolution could be used).  I used extra resolution just for the scan lines on top of pixelated graphics without adding extra colours.  The graphics don't change, a higher resolution series of black lines are just added on top.

Yes you explained yourself and I don't think the few tiny sprites really give anything away regards the levels or gameplay (which is intentional).  :)



Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 05, 2019, 11:28:31 PM
It's a good way to add fake scan lines by upping the scale and then using 1 line per 4 vertical lines to create the effect. Effectively just making use of the extra resolution while strictly speaking keeping the default resolution for the pixels :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 13, 2019, 11:04:00 PM
Busy with work so not much done bar a few animation frames.  Hope to get back to it very soon.

Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 14, 2019, 06:17:14 AM
Your little dude looks like he can run like like the wind ;D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on February 14, 2019, 06:23:21 AM
Your little dude looks like he can run like like the wind ;D

From mouth/head to is only one pixel line away from the butt cheeks - maybe he is in a hurry ;-)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 14, 2019, 10:59:28 AM
lol in this game you're constantly running about, or you'll not last long.    :D

Haha  ;D  An 8 pixel character is a challenge in it's self (scaled-up after) but far better than the original character used in the game it's based on.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 18, 2019, 12:35:21 PM
ok I have some spare time to spend on the game now.

First thing I've done is improve the scan line effect. To re-cap I drew some 8 X 8 pixel sprites (Graphics.png) scaled them up in Photoshop by 4 so they're a sensible size and introduced some blockiness - then saved that file.  A scanline effect was then added to the sprites, Scanlines1.png shows my last scanline effort, and Scanline2.png the new scanline effect.  Added a blur for extra authenticity (Scanlines2Blur.png)

Adding scanlines gives a more authentic look I feel.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 18, 2019, 08:19:09 PM
Started coding, getting the little dude running about under key control and animating.

One thing I've noticed is scan lines are a no no for some resolutions, no real surprise.  Scaling makes a mess of the scan lines, so would need to be turned off.  This shot was at 1920 X 1080 fullscreen and is fine with scanlines.

Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 18, 2019, 09:56:23 PM
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One thing I've noticed is scan lines are a no no for some resolutions, no real surprise.  Scaling makes a mess of the scan lines, so would need to be turned off.  This shot was at 1920 X 1080 fullscreen and is fine with scanlines.
I assume the higher the resolution the better the scan line effect scales up?. Perhaps you could have it enabled for 1080p resolutions and above?. Or have a little more complicated version by having code / scan line images based on the more common resolutions 768, 800, 900, 1080?
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 18, 2019, 10:02:59 PM
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I assume the higher the resolution the better the scan line effect scales up?. Perhaps you could have it enabled for 1080p resolutions and above?

Probably ok for 1080p and above, yes.  They'll be options to turn scan lines and 8-bit blurry screen effects on or off.  It's not something I'm going to dwell on just now as I want to concentrate on the coding.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on February 18, 2019, 10:45:45 PM
Why not just have the scanlines a big (repeating/tiled) texture which you draw on top of your whole game - no need to precreate that effect on each sprite.

also why do you scale the sprites already (you said you scaled by 4x)? Just do it in your game - as this allows to play it in a native resolution if possible (CRT enthusiasts ?).
If your game does "filtering" when scaling there is surely an option around to disable that.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: therevills on February 18, 2019, 11:24:32 PM
Could you just use a CRT shader? Not sure what you are coding in though...
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 18, 2019, 11:53:49 PM
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Could you just use a CRT shader? Not sure what you are coding in though...

I've no experience of shaders, that's why I haven't done it.   ;D  AGK.

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Why not just have the scanlines a big (repeating/tiled) texture which you draw on top of your whole game - no need to precreate that effect on each sprite.

I know, I already did something similar on my GridFire Game, you should know this.   :P  Just trying something different at this very early stage.

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also why do you scale the sprites already (you said you scaled by 4x)?

So I can apply the scan effect to it and bake the scanline effect into the sprite, remember these are tiny sprites so you really have to be careful things don't fall apart on scaling.  Besides the main reason, why waste cycles having the computer do the work when it's simple enough to pre-prepare the sprites?  Just trying some things in Photoshop, experimenting.  I'll probably go back to my GridFire style overlay, but it's always good to try new things.

Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: MrmediamanX on February 19, 2019, 01:43:07 AM
there's the CRT effect from "You Have to Win the Game" which look pretty neat.
I may need to tinker around and build my own version of it some time.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 19, 2019, 03:03:10 AM
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there's the CRT effect from "You Have to Win the Game"

Thanks, I've never seen that game before but my colour scheme for Crazy Caves is similar, although I aim to use red as well as magenta for the overall colour of the Caves.

As for the CRT effect it's a bit much for me, with the old tv curvature and screen glare too.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: MrmediamanX on February 19, 2019, 04:20:57 AM
To true .... something like that would be best suited for a non comp game.
though I just couldn't resist and built my own ... no "shaders" just layered transparent screen sprites,post processing fx and an animated transparent noise gif texture.... not to shabby I guess. ;D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 19, 2019, 04:44:28 AM
Cool, that looks great   8)

Just don't post any more here though, use your own worklog for that.  This is a personal worklog for my game, not yours lol :P
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 19, 2019, 12:50:44 PM
Finished my bitmap font for text and numbers alongside the graphics, now I need to create a data file that AGK requires for the Sprite Atlas (Sprite Sheet).  I've used a Sprite Packer Program that automated this process, but I found it didn't work as intended.

Small but steady progress.  Graphics are coming along and I can move my character about as he animates nicely.  The gif animation is a bit random compared to in-game, maybe Photoshop has mixed up the frames or timing, but you get an idea of how it looks animated.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 19, 2019, 02:14:53 PM
Looks sweet ;D

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I've used a Sprite Packer Program that automated this process, but I found it didn't work as intended.
I use Texture Packer Pro (https://www.codeandweb.com/texturepacker) which works really well and also has a free version. The only thing I have to do after setting it for AGK is to manually set the data file name.


Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 19, 2019, 02:19:38 PM
Thanks, be good to get some more graphics on-screen and I personally like the gameplay, but coming along, trying to play catch-up right now.   :D

I had some problems with it leaving artifacts, perhaps because sprites were small.  Anyway, no time to fart arse about with it right now because I'm a bit behind schedule.

Added some nice Spectrum 128 music (ish) that plays in the background.   :D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 19, 2019, 02:33:43 PM
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Yeah I had some problems with it leaving artifacts, perhaps because sprites were small.
Ah that. Change the border padding to 1 and in AGK use SetSpriteUVBorder( spriteID, 0 )

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Anyway, no time to fart arse about with it right now because I'm a bit behind schedule.
Save time, go with what works :)

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Added some nice Spectrum 128 music (ish) that plays in the background.   :D
Lol, that's what I'll be going for, Spectrum 128 music (ish) :P
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 20, 2019, 02:37:31 PM
Working on some cave graphics...
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: MrmediamanX on February 20, 2019, 04:33:39 PM
I get the feeling someone is going comment on the CRT lines of vertical cave sprites.
may need to dupe it.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 20, 2019, 04:51:12 PM
Yeah lol just a quick rotation to see how things looked.

I think personal worklogs are just to give people a basic idea of what you're working on and the graphic style - rather than asking for critique at a very early point in development.

Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 20, 2019, 08:59:08 PM
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I get the feeling someone is going comment on the CRT lines of vertical cave sprites.

Yep it was just a test, so a replacement screenshot.

I think that's all I'll post until the game's near completion, don't want to show too much at this stage  ;D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: MrmediamanX on February 20, 2019, 10:54:53 PM
Yeah lol just a quick rotation to see how things looked.

I think personal worklogs are just to give people a basic idea of what you're working on and the graphic style - rather than asking for critique at a very early point in development.

Totally :)
looking mighty good thus far.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 20, 2019, 11:00:12 PM
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looking mighty good thus far.

Thanks mate - your's too.  I'm giving a Speccy look to the game with some subtle improvements.  Details to be added to the cave obviously.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 21, 2019, 11:04:15 AM
ok just one more screenshot   :D

Enjoying this competition.

Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: iWasAdam on February 21, 2019, 12:15:30 PM
nice and clear layout and graphics - looks like everyone is going with some form of system border too :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 21, 2019, 12:19:53 PM
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nice and clear layout and graphics

Thanks Adam.

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looks like everyone is going with some form of system border too :)

It seems appropriate for the time  :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 21, 2019, 09:22:05 PM
Great to see the start of a game as it slowly comes to life ;D scan line thingy works really well too :) better than my chunky version but it's too late to redo the whole system.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: 3DzForMe on February 22, 2019, 08:50:54 AM
Was watching the start of codemasters 25 speccy games, lawnmower simulator featured 1st, s funny what they could get away with calling a game back then.

Your graphics are looking mightily impressive, and reminiscent of the old speccy, good work!
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 22, 2019, 09:27:34 AM
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Great to see the start of a game as it slowly comes to life ;D

Yes it's the best part of making a game, seeing it bit by bit come to life.

I've got the gameplay ideas worked out and the screen shots thus far give a basic idea of how things will look.  Obviously the cave details need to be added and coded, so lots to do.

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scan line thingy works really well too :) better than my chunky version but it's too late to redo the whole system.

Thanks, for the small sprites I'm using (compared to yours) the sprites look too sharp and blocky as they can on modern screens, rather than softer and scanline CRT when using low res graphics.  I'll have some options in-game to alter the look slightly.  With your bigger sprites it's less of an issue IMO.

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funny what they could get away with calling a game back then.

Yes companies have gone oh so corporate now, no fun!   ;D

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Your graphics are looking mightily impressive, and reminiscent of the old speccy, good work!

Thanks!  I'm happy with the Speccy-like graphics but plenty too add, a bit over-kill on animation though - 8 frames of animation just to run to the right for the tiny dude! 
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 25, 2019, 01:55:59 PM
Not much done, just some tweaks to graphics.

Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 26, 2019, 01:20:17 PM
Adding sprites and animating them...Slow but sure progress.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 28, 2019, 12:15:21 AM
Guess what I've been coding today lol?  Loading screens.  Yep, not showing too much at this stage haha.   ;D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 28, 2019, 12:25:44 AM
Lol at this rate there will be a "who did the best loader screen" section in the voting :P
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 28, 2019, 12:34:50 AM
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Lol at this rate there will be a "who did the best loader screen" section in the voting :P

Haha, well that Speccy Loading Screen really takes me back to the 8-bit days.  The anticipation of waiting for a new game to load.   :D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Xerra on February 28, 2019, 05:10:59 PM
Lol at this rate there will be a "who did the best loader screen" section in the voting :P

Just sticking my oar in to say "I DID IT FIRST!!!!!!" :-)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 28, 2019, 05:15:29 PM
lol yeah you're ahead in progress for sure, but like I explained there wasn't a chance I wouldn't have added one.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on February 28, 2019, 05:46:07 PM
Lol at this rate there will be a "who did the best loader screen" section in the voting :P

Just sticking my oar in to say "I DID IT FIRST!!!!!!" :-)

No ya didn't :P but you were the 1st to show it ;D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on February 28, 2019, 07:22:18 PM
Haha, precisely.  Some hold back a little, others show more; it's all personal preference.

The good thing is everybody is showing some of their project and creating a nice buzz around SyntaxBomb!   :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 05, 2019, 08:38:41 PM
Still plugging away and nervously watching the clock lol, but pretty happy with the project so far.  Although some serious competition from the SyntaxBomb Community, good work guys!  I'll be happy to just get the thing finished on time.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on March 05, 2019, 09:27:29 PM
Still plugging away and nervously watching the clock lol, but pretty happy with the project so far.  Although some serious competition from the SyntaxBomb Community, good work guys!  I'll be happy to just get the thing finished on time.
Lol, another day to try and squeeze some coding in :P - Last week is always the worst when you know you've still got loads to do :o - Main thing is to avoid feature creep.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 05, 2019, 09:37:17 PM
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Main thing is to avoid feature creep.

When I began the project I thought cool, 8-bit; less time required for graphics...Then I find myself fussing over the difference a single pixel makes!!  Drives you nuts lol   ???
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on March 05, 2019, 10:00:30 PM
It's not just me doing stupid thing then? :P Like spending 15 minutes deciding which colour I use for a platform, does the green one look better above the purple one?, nah, I'll put it back :P silly I know.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 05, 2019, 10:07:49 PM
Feature creep, that old tease. It's always more appealing to work in that extra little nuance of functionality, rather than focus on the tough bit,the story line. I thought with it being low ISH Rez, the creation of the graphics would be straight forward, wrong, less colours equals more of a head ache about green or purple.... Or dark brown? Good luck meeting the deadline folks!
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 05, 2019, 10:07:58 PM
lol glad it's not just me either!  But a single pixel at high res makes no difference really.  At low res it really does!

If you're a good pixel artist then it all comes naturally, for everybody else it's a learning curve.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: STEVIE G on March 05, 2019, 10:41:48 PM
lol glad it's not just me either!  But a single pixel at high res makes no difference really.  At low res it really does!

Ditto - I call it being a perfectionist  ;)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 06, 2019, 12:30:30 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: GaborD on March 06, 2019, 05:58:41 PM
lol glad it's not just me either!  But a single pixel at high res makes no difference really.  At low res it really does!

Indeed.
Attention to detail (down to the pixel haha) is what separates great from good.  :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 08, 2019, 01:41:20 PM
Sure does.

Installed AGK on the MacBook and Crazy Caves runs well on it, so there will be a Mac Version too.   :D

btw I guess everybody here has at least a 1920 X 1080 display?
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on March 08, 2019, 07:40:25 PM
A lot of cheaper laptops are only 1366x768 and then generally go 1280x800, 1600x900 up to 4K resolution on a poxy 15" display :o

Good thing about AGK is that if you do set the resolution to 1920x1080 and the persons display is lower resolution then it'll scale down, so you don't need to worry about that side :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 08, 2019, 08:02:22 PM
True.  My Macbook has quite a bit higher resolution than the 1920 X 1080 of my PC (but for gaming you can't beat a 1ms response rate monitor) although the game scales well.  And for an authentic 8-bit game you really can't run it in a window.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 09, 2019, 10:31:11 AM
I'll be running my 8 bit game in a window, makes it resizeable to whatever the user wants allowing him to access his desktop. Next, People will have to ship spectrum keyboards and 14 inch telly's to make their game authentic.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: iWasAdam on March 09, 2019, 11:45:04 AM
Another option is to render the game to a bitmap at the correct (old computer) resolution, and then blit the bitmap to a window.

This means you are always pixel perfect (ignoring stretching errors), and you can resize the window to whatever the user wants :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 09, 2019, 12:01:30 PM
Yes, but I'm using very small graphics 8 X 8 pixels and scaling up, plus I'm overlaying scanlines and both don't scale-up very well at a lower resolution.

To get a similar screen size as the original Speccy I'm sizing up everything by 4 (sprites and screen).  So screen resolution from 256 X 192 becomes 1024 X 768 (playable area) and the extra resolution gives the fine scan lines I require.

Plus I really don't like playing a game in a window.  In this case it ruins the authenticity of an 8-bit system, plus I always feel a game should fill the screen and be exclusive.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 11, 2019, 10:23:50 AM
Adding sound effects...
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: craigd on March 15, 2019, 02:58:20 AM
Looking great so far. Good luck man!
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 15, 2019, 10:19:17 AM
Cheers buddy it's coming along slowly but surely, currently restructuring code.

I've created more graphics, animation and added particle effects, all sound and music have been added too.  Zero levels created yet though  :o
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 15, 2019, 01:58:04 PM
Avoid the rivers of lava...

Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: iWasAdam on March 15, 2019, 02:04:45 PM
Brilliant and with a border too :)  8)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 15, 2019, 02:07:41 PM
Cheers!   :)  Gotta have a Speccy Border lol.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on March 15, 2019, 02:23:14 PM
Well cool, looking good ;D

Quote
Avoid the rivers of lava...
You just know I'll jump in to see what happens :P
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 15, 2019, 02:48:05 PM
Quote
Well cool, looking good ;D

Thanks!   :D

Quote
Avoid the rivers of lava...

You just know I'll jump in to see what happens :P

Good lol, there's a few things that happen on losing a life after hitting the sharp rocks or spikes - or lava.  Or...   ;D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 16, 2019, 11:44:42 AM
Finished re-writing messy code.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 16, 2019, 06:15:59 PM
You've time to re-write messy code, Lucky you! I'm still on the fence about releasing my code warts and all!
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 16, 2019, 10:57:01 PM
lol AGK almost encourages it ;) But I couldn't leave it like that because I want to re-use some of the functions in other games.

Although for a competition over a short time, if it works then that's all that matters really.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 18, 2019, 09:33:33 AM
I had an idea last night that should make the game quite a bit harder (quicker reflexes will now be required).  Simply by making the player continually move (like Pacman).  I think it will make the gameplay more frenetic, interesting and challenging.

...And maybe slow the player so more tactics are required (cannot rely on speed)?
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 20, 2019, 09:34:09 AM
New code works well on PC and Mac.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 21, 2019, 12:30:41 PM
10 DAYS TO GO!!   :o

Don't panic.  ok I am a bit.    ???
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on March 21, 2019, 05:08:00 PM
10 DAYS TO GO!!   :o

Don't panic.  ok I am a bit.    ???
Yup, time is ticking down and now we all begin to wonder just how close are we to really really really finishing our games. I've still to finish off one part of my game, do the main title screen & options, write some more music and tidy up a few things. Yeah, plenty of time :o
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 21, 2019, 07:56:50 PM
Well if I don't sort out these bugs quickly then I won't complete in time.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on March 21, 2019, 08:07:11 PM
You see that IWasAdam fiddled it out in less than a day - your chance to squash the bugs even faster.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 21, 2019, 08:14:02 PM
Thanks Derron.   :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 21, 2019, 10:13:01 PM
Major bugs have been downgraded to a couple of glitches.  I don't have time for this, I'm so far behind the other competitors already.  At least the bugs are gradually being squashed and the game framework is coming together (which I can use for other games).
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Xerra on March 21, 2019, 10:22:43 PM
Major bugs have been downgraded to a couple of glitches.  I don't have time for this, I'm so far behind the other competitors already.  At least the bugs are gradually being squashed and the game framework is coming together (which I can use for other games).

Try not to panic. I've done this at the end of each game as I end up going at it until the last hour. This time I'm hoping to be smarter and close on the game the day before so I have all day to concentrate on testing and making sure it goes online well before the deadline. Keep a list of all the bits you still have to do and delete them as you get them done. Nothing more motivating than a list of work to do that is gradually shrinking. And, most importantly of all, do not leave the hardest, most vital part of the game until last. I did that with Rockman and almost blew it with the rocks movement pattern. It's a bit buggy as a result because I've never gone back to it since.

Another thing to remember is that you have a week before voting opens after the game has been submitted. You can't add to the game but bug fixes are accepted so you can pick up anything daft that you didn't spot then before judging starts.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 21, 2019, 10:32:01 PM
Quote
Try not to panic. I've done this at the end of each game as I end up going at it until the last hour.

Thanks Xerra, yes I always knew this was going to be a down to the wire situation, I just could have done without chasing bugs today.

Quote
Another thing to remember is that you have a week before voting opens after the game has been submitted. You can't add to the game but bug fixes are accepted

I think with some sleep and fresh coffee tomorrow morning I'll fix-up those glitches pretty quickly, and if not, then like you say there's a bug fix week.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: iWasAdam on March 22, 2019, 08:51:41 AM
If I can do it... Then so can you :)

go on...

FINISH IT  :o
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 22, 2019, 08:53:56 AM
Cheers Adam, will do!
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on March 22, 2019, 09:55:01 AM
I think with some sleep and fresh coffee tomorrow morning I'll fix-up those glitches pretty quickly, and if not, then like you say there's a bug fix week.

You seem to have plenty of time ;-)

I can lurk around here very frequently but serious computer time is the time when all are asleep and no serious business is expecting my attention.

So ... I do not see any reason for you to not finish your stuff - except out of the sudden you get some kids expecting your attention :)


On the other hand: if you all do not achieve to finish, chances to win increase. So .... enjoy your sunny days, do some outside activies, do something for your health.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 22, 2019, 12:33:33 PM
Fixed!  Onwards and upwards.   :D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 22, 2019, 11:04:33 PM
Not much accomplished today, fixed my bugs by lunchtime but have been out most of the day.  Just looked a bit more at AGK and optimized based on that knowledge.  Game runs at 2700 FPS at the moment.  A lot slower on the laptop, around 120 FPS.  At least the game updates at the same speed though.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: 3DzForMe on March 23, 2019, 06:45:42 AM
Quote
I think with some sleep and fresh coffee tomorrow morning I'll fix-up those glitches pretty quickly, and if not, then like you say there's a bug fix week.     

Sleep and fresh coffee is always good, bug fix week, I seem to be able to fit that in around April 3rd, oops, too late
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: iWasAdam on March 23, 2019, 08:28:12 AM
YAY !!!  ;D

I'm running at a nice 60fps
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 23, 2019, 11:42:30 AM
Quote
YAY !!!  ;D

I'm running at a nice 60fps

Thanks!

Hmm great for monitor refresh rates at 60Hz.  But my monitor refreshes at 75hz though, so some possible unsmooth frames?

Quote
Sleep and fresh coffee is always good, bug fix week, I seem to be able to fit that in around April 3rd, oops, too late
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on March 23, 2019, 12:14:45 PM
Refresh rates should not matter if you use delta timing (as you @Steve do).

BTW thanks for your FPS talk here - wanted to check how much FPS I get with some hundred "drawRect()"-ships (so quads) and fiddled for over an hour to find out that there was a bug in NG's sdl.mod leading to always vsync. Commited a fix and ... got 6000 fps on title screen (nothing to do except some image rendering) and >1000 fps during startup. With about 800 ships alive and most of them on screen I still got 800 fps at a logic rate of 30 per second. And my system is ... GTX 650 + old AMD LLano.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 23, 2019, 12:24:39 PM
Quote
BTW thanks for your FPS talk here - wanted to check how much FPS I get with some hundred "drawRect()"-ships (so quads) and fiddled for over an hour to find out that there was a bug in NG's sdl.mod leading to always vsync.

Good stuff, glad you spotted the bug, corrected and got some great frame rates.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 25, 2019, 08:43:19 AM
Working on UI.  Must type faster...  :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 25, 2019, 03:21:51 PM
I think I'm out guys.   :(

I really don't think it will be possible to complete the game in time, I just have too much to do and not enough free time.  The game will be completed though, little by little it's coming together, but I just can't see how I can make the deadline.

To quote my game when you die "GAME OVER MAN  GAME OVER".  It might have been in a film too lol.   ;)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on March 25, 2019, 04:16:29 PM
Just finish a non-polished-variant: better a game with glitches than no game at all.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 25, 2019, 04:31:11 PM
Quote
better a game with glitches than no game at all.

No I wouldn't ever want to put out a glitchy game.  I'll finish it as soon as I can (and am happy with it).
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on March 25, 2019, 08:42:58 PM
Quote
I really don't think it will be possible to complete the game in time, I just have too much to do and not enough free time.  The game will be completed though, little by little it's coming together, but I just can't see how I can make the deadline.
Noooo!!! you need to keep going for it until the last minute. Don't give up at this stage :o
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 25, 2019, 09:49:45 PM
Thanks, not giving up, just being realistic.  Absolutely loved this comp so thanks.  Bob will definitely make an appearance at some point.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: iWasAdam on March 26, 2019, 08:28:05 AM
I've done it a few times - sometimes it can help, but is always an unhappy experience.

Maybe submit one level that works great?
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 26, 2019, 01:25:43 PM
All I can do is keep typing away and give a progress report on 31 March.   :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on March 26, 2019, 02:06:49 PM
All I can do is keep typing away and give a progress report on 31 March.   :)
That's the best thing to do - Very worst case is you'll have tried your hardest without giving up :)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 27, 2019, 08:41:01 AM
Working away but I haven't posted a screenshot in a while, so here's one using my new text commands in action - a game instruction page.  Not that interesting, but it does give an idea of gameplay if I don't get over the line in time.

Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Qube on March 27, 2019, 05:20:03 PM
How many rewrites did that take to get all the text in? :P
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 27, 2019, 05:46:06 PM
Quote
How many rewrites did that take to get all the text in? :P

Shut up lol.   :P
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on March 27, 2019, 06:14:44 PM
As the spacing between the lines differs (just count the blue lines between the text lines) he might have been adjusting stuff to make it fit.

Regardless of that: just add a "next" button and say "hello multipage text". Or add some fancy blocky text scroller.


No need to remove words squeezed out of fairy sweat drops during many night coding hours.

Bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 27, 2019, 06:35:26 PM
Quote
As the spacing between the lines differs

No it doesn't, well it shouldn't.  That font has some blue shadow/3d-type effect on a (same) blue coloured textured background so maybe that's what you're seeing.

Quote
Regardless of that: just add a "next" button and say "hello multipage text". Or add some fancy blocky text scroller.

No need to remove words squeezed out of fairy sweat drops during many night coding hours.

Which would mean extra coding now wouldn't it?  Time I don't have.

The words haven't been sacrificed, they describe exactly the outline of the game quite nicely.


Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on March 27, 2019, 06:57:06 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/VZpyVCN.png)

The line spacing alternates between 9 and 11 pixels (9, 11, 9, 11, ...)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 27, 2019, 06:59:22 PM
That's strange, I'll take another look at my code, thanks.

Nope code is ok, each line is 37 pixels apart (or should be).  Maybe AGK would prefer 38  ;)
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on March 27, 2019, 07:05:11 PM
@ extra coding
"if MouseManager.IsHit(1) and new TRectangle.Init(nextX,nextY,nextW,nextH).Contains(MouseManager.currentPos) then page = page mod pageCount + 1"
and somewhere else
"if page = 1 then font.DrawBlock(page1Text, x,y,w,h)"
"if page = 2 then font.DrawBlock(page2Text, x,y,w,h)"

Does not seem to be so much code :-)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 27, 2019, 07:11:42 PM
Quote
if MouseManager

Derron I'm starting completely from scratch with AGK, I have no engine/written functions to make it easy for me to do these things simply!  That's what I have been doing while I also wrote the game.  Plus I was rushing to meet a deadline, hitting a damn enter key was the quickest fix.

Anyway I'm not rushing anymore, because I'm out of the competition so can produce any code I want to enable me to write games much quicker with a series of routines.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on March 27, 2019, 07:17:14 PM
Of course it is good to have framework code built up "here and there". I am pretty sure AGK offers some convenience functionality ("x,y is within a rectangle x,y,w,h") but as I never used it I am not aware of such things.

Nonetheless: some people here enjoy writing "prototype code" (code until it works, not looking back) and there such simple "was clicked within a region" things are often a matter of writing a line - and copy pasting + adjusting it for the other clickable elements on a single screen. And as this seems to work - why not do that here and where. Especially if you do not plan to improve the game afterwards ("fire and forget").



Do not feel offended by my post about "takes only 3 lines of code" I just wanted to make a little shoulder jostling :-)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 27, 2019, 07:32:48 PM
Quote
Of course it is good to have framework code built up "here and there". I am pretty sure AGK offers some convenience functionality ("x,y is within a rectangle x,y,w,h") but as I never used it I am not aware of such things.

I'm sure it does, but then you have to go draw a button, position it, look up mouse functions online, code it etc, it was a time saving thing - just hit enter lol.  Every second was required.

Quote
Nonetheless: some people here enjoy writing "prototype code" (code until it works, not looking back)

That is not my style at all (because I want to have some good routines I can use on other projects).  But writing some game routines came later after I prototyped the AGK functions (to see how they worked in practice).  So I basically wrote the game twice! lol.

Quote
Do not feel offended by my post about "takes only 3 lines of code" I just wanted to make a little shoulder jostling :-)

Haha  :P  rushing to complete a deadline you don't need any jostling what-so-ever.  :P

And I haven't wrtitten a completed game in years, so getting everything coming together was a learning curve all over again.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 30, 2019, 03:50:47 PM
Aw, jealous of the peeps here uploading their amazing creations for the competition.  Great job guys.   :)

I took a couple of days out when it became clear I wouldn't complete on time, but I'm just going to get back to it this afternoon and get a few more percent done, with a view to release after the competition.  The game runs on PC and Mac very smoothly (which I'm chuffed about) and I'm looking to get a dedicated Linux Box set up the next few days, so will look to get a Linux version out too.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on March 30, 2019, 04:01:42 PM
OpenGL is what you will use on Linux and VirtualBox has a decent OpenGL support.
So in short: install VirtualBox (or maybe Parallels if you are on a Mac) and boot up an Ubuntu 17 there (17 because it is not the newest but also not the oldest one).

Once you have your installation done in the virtual machine you could "easily" move the content of the virtual hard drive on the one of a dedicated linux box.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 30, 2019, 04:05:45 PM
Quote
OpenGL is what you will use on Linux and VirtualBox has a decent OpenGL support.

I'm using AGK.   ;D

Quote
Once you have your installation done in the virtual machine you could "easily" move the content of the virtual hard drive on the one of a dedicated linux box.

I'm just going to use my USB Stick Linux boot, then click on Install to a fresh hard drive.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Derron on March 30, 2019, 04:17:58 PM
AGK still relies on something ... and for Linux this is either Vulkan or OpenGL. This is what the emulator of your virtual machine has to support to "emulate/translate" then.

A dedicated box is of course better - if you have the time and enjoy booting up machines instead of "click to resume" :-)
(I know VMs are no guarantee to work on real hardware - and vice versa)

bye
Ron
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 30, 2019, 05:54:24 PM
I've messed around with USB Sticks and external USB Drives, but a dedicated Internal Hard Drive solely for Linux should do the trick.

Qube tells me his competition project works fine using AGK on Linux.
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on March 31, 2019, 09:24:28 PM
Received and fitted my new internal hard drive, installed Linux and AGK to produce a Linux version of the (unfinished) game, to go with the Windows and Mac OS versions.

Linux version now created.   :D
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: RemiD on November 03, 2019, 01:22:10 PM
it looked like a good start, i hope that you will finish a prototype / simple version someday. ( sincerely  :) )

sometimes you just have to make a little unperfect action / creation each day (even for only a few minutes) to make some progress and stay motivated.

that's how i started to code / model / draw, again this year... at least 10minutes per day, and often it gets me "in the mood" to continue making stuff
Title: Re: Crazy Caves
Post by: Steve Elliott on November 03, 2019, 02:04:19 PM
Thanks, yeah I have 3 games I need to complete but am currently between programming languages (I'm working on my own language) which keeps me busy and motivated enough.  I could complete them in AGK I guess, but then I'd need to re-write them after.  But AGK is great for testing out prototypes.

Some screen shots of my (unfinished) games attached...





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