The latest Raspberry pi has arrived (pi 4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXCjpJasvG0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVA-WZWdEpY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDnLIBhWxYI
I've got that many Pi's, I should just open a bakery me!!! :D
I might get one further down the line, probably a 4gig one, but at the minute, I dont need another one!
Dabz
Haha me too! The faster CPU/GPU, more memory available for the GPU and faster RAM would be great for my Arcade Machine Emulator.
Cool, it's time to grab one for full speed retro gaming at 50hz ( Amiga ). Shame the 4GB model is already out of stock but I'm on the notify list at least so will wait for that model to come back in stock.
Damn, i only bought me and a mate a 3B+ recently to run Retro Pie and play some classic games. Think I may consider an upgrade come Xmas :-)
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Cool, it's time to grab one for full speed retro gaming at 50hz ( Amiga ). Shame the 4GB model is already out of stock but I'm on the notify list at least so will wait for that model to come back in stock.
Yeah, I'll be getting that version too. At 3 times the CPU speed and 4 times the memory (much faster memory too) it'll make a very compact and quiet emulation station for some of the more demanding games/systems. I'd like a 2nd one for a mini desktop setup too for coding.
Retro fun here we go ;D
Been mulling over this and I'm going to go for the full 4GB desktop version. On top of that I'll be grabbing an SSD for storage + a USB microswitch joystick ( in the style of the Amiga days ) + a 1ms refresh monitor which supports 50hz and 60hz refresh rate ( for silky smooth visuals and no ghosting ).
Been itching to build a quality retro rig for a long time and with the Pi 4 I'm pretty convinced it's more than up to the task.
For years I was using my iMac for Amiga games and was able to switch the refresh down from 60hz to 50hz via SwitchResX for silky smooth scrolling. When I upgraded my iMac it wouldn't allow that so for a while I was really pissed off at wasting over two grand on a new one :P
I think I can happily dedicate a corner of my room for a fully equipped retro setup ;D - I'll need to do some research into the choice of monitor as I don't want any ghosting no matter how fast the pixels are shifting. Granted the monitor will eclipse the size of a CRT but so long as the gaming area is spot on I'll be more than happy.
Quite looking forward to building a dedicated retro setup ;D
Web server?
Currently these forums are hosted on a Mac Mini with CentOS running in a VM ( 256GB SSD ). Can CentOS be directly installed on a Pi? if anyone has any experience then I'd love to hear what the performance is like.
@Qube, that all sounds very cool. I have a spare small USB3 external drive for storage.
pi4 with 4Gb back in stock so ordered mine with all the bits :D
Quote from: Steve Elliott on June 26, 2019, 12:45:13
@Qube, that all sounds very cool. I have a spare small USB3 external drive for storage.
pi4 with 4Gb back in stock so ordered mine with all the bits :D
Yay \o/
Ordered mine too. As this is my first pi I didn't to want to miss anything so grabbed this lot :
(https://www.syntaxbomb.com/images/pi4Order.gif)
Granted I could of used a bluetooth mouse / keyboard but hey, why not ;D - Also as it supports two displays one will go into the TV I have nearby for a sort of media centre and the 2nd will go into a gaming monitor ( not decided which to go for yet ) for retro fun.
Great minds think alike like lol. I've the exact same system ordered - except noobs SD Card. I'll set it up myself.
Quote from: Steve Elliott on June 26, 2019, 21:44:30
Great minds think alike like lol. I've the exact same system ordered - except noobs SD Card. I'll set it up myself.
Lol, I went click click click as the desktop kit isn't available yet and this worked out at pretty much the same price. I added on the noobs card as I've not got many micro SD cards knocking around of any substantial size.
lol the only extra is the fan. If it becomes annoying I'll unplug it, but it will ensure no CPU throttling back if under heavy load.
on my Xmas list... probably the 4gb version... I already have versions 2+ and 3+
Anybody received one yet? I know they're selling well. I'm expecting mine to be delivered tomorrow.
Quote from: Steve Elliott on July 02, 2019, 00:27:50
Anybody received one yet? I know they're selling well. I'm expecting mine to be delivered tomorrow.
They attempted delivery of mine today but I was out. I've re-scheduled delivery for Wednesday.
https://twitter.com/Spinal_Cord/status/1145323271140859904
Quote from: Steve Elliott on July 02, 2019, 00:27:50
Anybody received one yet? I know they're selling well. I'm expecting mine to be delivered tomorrow.
Mine arrived today along with all the goodies \o/
I've not tried it yet but it'll be my weekend project to get the ultimate Amiga setup going. I've not decided on a fast refresh monitor yet so will temporarily use a TV so I can at least see it all working @ 50hz to match the proper PAL output of the Amiga and other home consoles in the UK.
What do you plan to use on it to end up with "the ultimate Amiga setup", out of curiosity? My current Amiga work on my Pi 3B is centred around Amiberry (via Retropie), but as a "in the living room with only controllers hooked up to it" situation I'm only using it for games. If/when I get to the point where I want to set up a Pi in a "Amiga with mouse and keyboard" situation I'll do that on the desk with my "proper computer", but I haven't decided on how I might go about that yet. Amibian, perhaps.
QuoteWhat do you plan to use on it to end up with "the ultimate Amiga setup", out of curiosity?
Main goal is to have configs setup for A500 and A1200 and also A1200 with max RAM + WB 3 + magic desktop + HDD for apps like DPaint, True Brilliance, ProTracker and OctaMED. I also want the visuals to be as close as possible to how fast graphics updated on CRT's so I'll be getting a 1ms response time gaming monitor which supports 50hz so things run silky smooth for PAL games.
I've ordered this joystick (https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Speedlink-Anniversary-Competition-Extra-Joystick/dp/B07K9N36GG) for gaming but would prefer a Konix Speedking USB version ( can still hope and pray ). I also bought the official pi keyboard and mouse so the whole setup will be a dedicated area in my room. Also it'll be used for other retro gaming and I've an 8bitdo sn30 bluetooth joypad which works really well.
Any thoughts on what emulator/distro/whatever you wanna use to achieve all of that?
(Also, as an avowed fan of Activision's "Decathlon" on the C64 back in the day, the Konix Speedking smells of wee. Competition Pro 5000 all the way baby! :P )
Quote from: Qube on July 04, 2019, 05:46:56
but would prefer a Konix Speedking USB version
One or two button version? :P
We broke so many of those on the Amstrad playing Daley Thompson's Decathlon...
QuoteAny thoughts on what emulator/distro/whatever you wanna use to achieve all of that?
Not sure yet and need to do some research on Ambian, Amiberry and RetroPi to see which one works the best for me. I think I'll start with RetroPi as that supports other retro hardware too.
Quotethe Konix Speedking smells of wee
Back in the day I converted many people with from the competition pro's after repeatedly kicking their arse at Goal, Sensible Soccer, Speedball 2 and Dynablasters ;D
QuoteOne or two button version?
1 button. Pro's only need 1 button :))
I decided to build the pi into the Pibow coupe 4 ninja case ( what a name ) and went to download RetroPi but I see it currently doesn't support the pi 4 :o - Coming soon so I'll have to wait. Checked out a couple of other Amiga emulators but from what I can see pi 4 support is coming soon too.
I'd of thought software wise the pi's would of been backward compatible for the most part. Are they all completely different with software support? Do I always need pi 4 versions? - Silly noob questions but I'm a pi virgin :P
Still not plugged it in yet to see if it works but I guess I better had just incase it's faulty.
The pi is backward compatible, but the pi4 uses a newer distro of Linux (Buster) so affects some software.
The switch from a single core to a quadcore CPU in the past means there is a version for pi2 and 3, and another version of Retropie for older boards.
Thanks, I had a feeling it was more OS based as I see RetroPi comes with an OS too. I'm sure they'll get it all sorted over the coming weeks :)
No problem. Yes, Retropie sits on top of the current Linux OS. You boot automatically into the Retropie Menu to select the emulated system and games, after you've setup your joypad/joystick. You can then quit the system to command line and boot into desktop mode if you wish.
Well I'm back from holiday 8) so will have to go and get my pi4 from the sorting office today. :D
Hope all of you received a compatible power supply (they implemented USB-C not the way as suggested by the USB-C-Standard).
bye
Ron
I ordered the official pi4 PSU, so it should work fine.
Quote from: Steve Elliott on July 11, 2019, 10:28:21
Well I'm back from holiday 8)
Way-hey, welcome back!. Hope you had a great time ;D
Quote from: Derron on July 11, 2019, 10:42:45
Hope all of you received a compatible power supply (they implemented USB-C not the way as suggested by the USB-C-Standard).
I read that if the USB-C cable is full spec ( e-marked ) then it won't work so a cheap version is in order :P
Luckily I ordered the official PSU :)
Great thanks. Unpacked all the pi goodies. Looks good, but haven't tried it yet. One thing I didn't realise was the pi case comes as a pack to assemble yourself hmm.
Quote from: Steve Elliott on July 11, 2019, 15:15:11
One thing I didn't realise was the pi case comes as a pack to assemble yourself hmm.
The official pi case is a two piece one but I think you ordered the same one as I did "ninja case" which comes in 5 layers. The site has a handy YouTube video which makes it dead easy to put together though.
Yes I have the same case as you. Thanks for the info, I just wasn't expecting something so fiddly.
Quote from: Steve Elliott on July 11, 2019, 18:29:56
Thanks for the info, I just wasn't expecting something so fiddly.
That's what I thought. I went WTF! not even a bit of paper to show you the order of the layers :o
lmao ;D
But my arcade cabinet took a step forward...24 inch monitor for pi4. :D
Quote from: Steve Elliott on July 12, 2019, 20:27:32
But my arcade cabinet took a step forward...24 inch monitor for pi4. :D
Cool ;D - Still not even turned mine on yet to make sure it works :( - Kinda got depressed that there are no working Amiga emulators for it yet and no idea how long before Retropie get updated. Guess it's a waiting game but I must test it at least for warranty purposes.
Finally got around to testing it all works and pi + mouse + keyboard + PSU all working grand :)
Amiga here were come.... I read on the AmiBerry forums that "one" person reported that worked so thought I'd give it go. Downloaded the latest GitHub version and compiled as per instructions but ended up with FATAL ERROR "SDL_image.h", huh ok, so I installed SDL and SDL2 dev stuff which went fine and tried again with various options but still at the end got FATAL ERROR "SDL_image.h".
10 minutes and my patience is worn out so it all boxed up until there is a Pi 4 image to download of RetroPi :P
You give up too soon. I bet IWasAdam would write its own Amiga emulator :-)
bye
Ron
I'd like to join the party. But the 4 GB model is nowhere to be found.
On top of that the first boards have a broken power supply support for "USB-C" by design. No firmware update possible.
Furthermore the boards heat up very quickly without fan or better passive cooling.
Apart from the community support, competitors won.
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But the 4 GB model is nowhere to be found.
I have one and so does Qube.
I got mine from Pimoroni, they notified me very quickly after launch when the board was back in stock. https://shop.pimoroni.com/
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On top of that the first boards have a broken power supply support for "USB-C"
Mine was ordered with the official power supply, so obviously not 'broken'.
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Furthermore the boards heat up very quickly without fan or better passive cooling.
The CPU alone is 3 times more powerful, so some cooling is required.
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Apart from the community support, competitors won.
Yes that is the HUGE advantage of the pi community (and software) support. There are a lot of competitor boards out there, but they have bad software support. They won nothing.
QuoteBut the 4 GB model is nowhere to be found.
They sell out pretty fast, which is good as it means they are popular. Best thing to do is put yourself on the notify list to get an email when they are back in stock. I did that as when I first looked they were all out of stock from the two most popular pi stores in the UK.
QuoteOn top of that the first boards have a broken power supply support for "USB-C"
It's not really "broken" as such but just not implemented correctly :P - You can use any USB-C charger providing the cable isn't a fully featured USB-C cable ( marked e-type ) apparently. I bought the official USB-C PSU due to convenience as it's cheap enough.
QuoteFurthermore the boards heat up very quickly without fan or better passive cooling.
I've ordered a fan for mine recently as I don't want any throttling when I
finally get around to being able to install RetroPie on it.
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I've ordered a fan for mine recently as I don't want any throttling when I finally get around to being able to install RetroPie on it.
Yes now that is a bit dissapointing, the RetroPie guys are usually all over an upgrade. So I'm surprised the pi4 version isn't available yet. It's a great system that runs very well on a pi3, so will fly on a pi4.
Thanks for that info LineOf7s.
None of the Retropie guys had one when they were released (and as you've seen they're in short supply), and it's not just a simple recompile. It'll get there.
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I've ordered a fan for mine recently as I don't want any throttling when I finally get around to being able to install RetroPie on it.
I ordered this one, it's tiny and looks like it's part of the pi, rather than some huge bolted-on fan: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim
I'm setting up my pi4 today with Raspbian to see if everything's working ok.
QuoteI ordered this one, it's tiny and looks like it's part of the pi, rather than some huge bolted-on fan: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim
Lol, that's the exact one I ordered too. Got an email saying it's been shipped today and should arrive tomorrow \o/
While waiting for RetroPi I might try it out with CentOS as and see how it performs as a web server. If it works fast enough ( it should ) then I'll no doubt be grabbing a few more to handle tasks ;D
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Lol, that's the exact one I ordered too.
lol great minds thinking alike, again. ;) It's very easy to attach.
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If it works fast enough ( it should ) then I'll no doubt be grabbing a few more to handle tasks ;D
Annd you're hooked lol ;D
Well...it seems it is time to order one too...
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Well...it seems it is time to order one too...
Cool.
Hmm, well I didn't get as much free time as expected. Just sat down now to get things setup.
ook. All software downloaded and installed (Raspbian Buster). The fan is barely audible and very small. I'm running the pi4 on a 24 inch monitor at 1920 x 1080 and typing this on it. It's very noticeably quicker.
I bought all the new toys (official keyboard and mouse) which are lovely, but too much cabling for me. I'll switch to my wireless keyboard and mouse I think, although the official keyboard does have a built-in USB Hub which my wireless keyboard doesn't have...I'll leave the Airfix style case for another day.
[edit]
I switched to a small wireless keyboard and mouse setup, plugged in some external speakers for better sound, assembled the case and put the pi4 into it. Cool case with excellent airflow. But in the process I broke off the LED from the Fan Shim, no biggy because I thought it was annoying anyway. I did re-apply it but it doesn't work now - fit the fan last!
For smoother and faster scrolling in Chromium turn off smooth scrolling! Then override software rendering to use the GPU as follows:
In a new Chrome tab, paste the following into the address bar and then hit enter: chrome://flags/#disable-smooth-scrolling
Click the "Disable: link under "Smooth Scrolling"
Enable "Override software rendering list"
Restart your browser.
Is this thing fast enough to emulate the N64 properly? Could anyone already test this?
Is the new pie able to run a private Terraria / Starbound server?
Can I still use a fan with this case? https://flirc.tv/more/kodi-edition-raspberry-pi-4-case I just like the looks of it. :)
I think it's too early to answer those questions, because everybody was surprised that there was a pi4 this year so software is catching up; I'll let you know as soon as possible. I own a very similar Flirc case for my pi3, and IMO I don't think a heatsink case will be sufficient to prevent the pi4 throttling back after a while of intense load. And that case connects directly to the CPU, so no you cannot use a fan.
Edited the above, everything setup now. :D
Finally ordered a gaming monitor and decided go for a AOC g2260Vwq6 21.5" Widescreen TN LED (https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0158L13M4). It's a 1ms refresh and has HDMI ( for Pi ) and VGA for my iMac ( I've a USB-C to VGA / HDMI / GB Ethernet / USB-3 dongle ).
I didn't want to spend a fortune nor end up with a junky piece of crap and for the money this seems like a good compromise as it fits all my needs of 1ms refresh, supports 50hz for smooth PAL scrolling, can be used with the Pi and also as a gaming monitor for my iMac without having to swap cables.
QuoteCan I still use a fan with this case? https://flirc.tv/more/kodi-edition-raspberry-pi-4-case I just like the looks of it. :)
I've just installed This Fan (https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim) and it's height is below the USB / LAN ports so judging by that case I would say at least the fan Steve and I are using would happily fit.
*edit* unless there is something on the lid of that case which blocks it?
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Finally ordered a gaming monitor.
Cool, looks good. I couldn't wait so just popped into a local store and bought a 24 inch Dell Screen for around £100, it runs 50/60hz too. It's a 2ms delay model (my PC monitor is 1ms). But it's far far better than the ancient thing I used for the pi3!
I think the extra horsepower and much larger screen will allow MAME to use bezels (the artwork/instructions/arcade cabinet graphic) so will give a more authentic look to arcade emulation.
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so judging by that case I would say at least the fan Steve and I are using would happily fit.
*edit* unless there is something on the lid of that case which blocks it?
No mate, as I said the case doubles as a heatsink so there is a direct connection with the CPU - so no room for a fan.
QuoteCool, looks good. I couldn't wait so just popped into a local store and bought a 24 inch Dell Screen for around £100. It's a 2ms delay model (my PC monitor is 1ms). But it's far far better than the ancient thing I used for the pi3!
Yeah, I didn't want to go nuts on the cost so long as it's half decent I'll be happy :)
QuoteNo mate, as I said the case doubles as a heatsink so there is a direct connection with the CPU - so no room for a fan.
Ah right, I didn't see the bit about it being a heatsink too.
Quote
Yeah, I didn't want to go nuts on the cost so long as it's half decent I'll be happy :)
I've been running my arcade emulator (with Retro Pie) for ages on a crappy monitor using a pi3 and it is very impressive indeed! The arcade versions of the Street Fighter Alpha series are far beyond an Amiga - yet it runs lightening quick on a pi3. As long as the Amiga Emulator is around as impressive as MAME you'll get a very good experience indeed, and the pi4 is 3 times the speed of a pi3 with very much faster RAM, and lots of it.
Quote from: Steve Elliott on July 17, 2019, 18:23:45
I've been running my arcade emulator (with Retro Pie) for ages on a crappy monitor using a pi3 and it is very impressive indeed! The arcade versions of the Street Fighter Alpha series are far beyond an Amiga - yet it runs lightening quick on a pi3. As long as the Amiga Emulator is around as impressive as MAME you'll get a very good experience indeed.
The Amiga version of Street Fighter was awful and could of been a much better port had the effort been put in.
I think the Pi4 ( with RetroPi when it's ready ) should handle the Amiga very well. I also want all the classics like Speccy, Vic-20, Amstrad etc too as I'll be able to play some classics at proper 50hz rather than the jerky 50hz games on a 60hz+ monitor. In the meantime though I'll get the Pi4 hooked up and ready to go tomorrow when the monitor arrives and just use the iMac via the monitor to play some retro games as they'll be side by side.
Plus while waiting for RetroPi on the Pi 4 it'll give me a good excuse to try other things on the Pi ;D
Thanks for all the info posts here. Instead of getting a fancy case, this fan might work great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyUXC3886Ic :D
I'm still on the edge about getting the new Pie as the Model 3 B was far to slow than what I wanted to do with it.
I might get a Win10 Mini PC with APU instead. More expensive and bigger, but it's much easier to set up and Browsers, Streaming and Emulators will run fine.
That fan is ridiculous Grisu. https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim
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The Amiga version of Street Fighter was awful and could of been a much better port had the effort been put in.
lol the pi3 runs the more modern Alpha 3 version, the Amiga would have no chance of running that!
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also want all the classics like Speccy, Vic-20, Amstrad etc
I've not wanted that, I just wanted a dedicated arcade machine...Although I've been re-considering that lately, we'll see.
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I think the Pi4 ( with RetroPi when it's ready ) should handle the Amiga very well.
Unless it's a bad emulator it should fly.
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Plus while waiting for RetroPi on the Pi 4 it'll give me a good excuse to try other things on the Pi ;D
lol if I can, I'll try and answer some of your questions/problems. I'm currently using the pi4 to type this reply.
Quotelol if I can, I'll try and answer some of your questions/problems.
Thanks. I think I'll first just play around with Raspian and then try CentOS ( no GUI ) to see how it performs as a web server - fun fun ;D
lol pi World is always fun, sometimes frustrating, but fun :D
Lol well so far I have in mind loads of pi's dotted around the place being a retro gaming centre, web server, media server and God knows what else I'll dream up as these these things are just so cute :P
Cool. I've just plugged in a small USB 3 Drive (1Tb) for lots of storage (powered by the pi4).
Great, got my wireless mouse to work with pi4 via Bluetooth (one less USB Port required for the nano dongle). The mouse just needed to be charged lol (it became erratic) after which it connected first time...Hmm maybe I should get a Bluetooth keyboard too.
btw don't bother running a pi4 without a fan, unlike previous models it gets hot and then throttles back (so you lose the speed boost over previous models).
But I'm using something smaller with the ninja case as shown in the video below: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVfvhEJ9XD0
If you print your own case - make sure to print with ABS or at least PETG as heat of >50° means your PLA plastics loose form stability (you can deform it without much pressure then).
bye
Ron
Jesus! what kind of crazy ass over the top cooling solution is that? :o - "Here's a guide on how to make your shiny new Pi 4 look like a block of crud!"
QuoteBut I'm using something smaller with the ninja case as shown in the video below: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim
Yup, we both got the same one and it's not a fat ass ugly solution + quiet and does the job great ;D
ook, I remembered I had a Jelly Comb Bluetooth keyboard with built-in trackpad (typing this on it). It actually folds in 3, so when folded it's not much bigger than the pi4. So I now have 3 spare USB ports on the pi, with only the 1Tb USB3 Drive (around the size of the pi and powered by it) using one of them; such a compact, quiet and efficient system. :D
@Qube, haha yeah, our setups are far nicer. The point is you do need fan cooling this time, which wasn't the case with the pi3.
Quote.....The point is you do need fan cooling this time, which wasn't the case with the pi3.
Thats the reason why i order the last pi3 two days ago.No need for the pi4 features atm.
Maybe if there is another revision(maybe with a cooling solution anboard)
A cheap complete set with pi4, case and silent aircooling could be nice.
Quote
Maybe if there is another revision(maybe with a cooling solution anboard)
Tiny, quiet and cheap. It's a hot day here but the pi is only running at 40 degrees thanks to this tiny fan:
https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim
When I bought the Fan Shim I fitted it and later put the case together (because it looked fiddly). Of course what you should do is fit the fan last. But I didn't so ended-up bending the fan casing a little. So I ordered another one as they were very cheap, and the new one seems to have had a couple of updates made. The black fan now comes with black plastic nuts and bolts (much more appropriate than white one's I previously received). The fan has gone from whisper quiet to completely inaudable. I wouldn't know if the fan was on or not now, where as before it was very quiet but with a slight whine. The only way to tell if the fan is running is by the CPU temperature reading on the task bar, or shining a torch on it.
Mine came with the black plastic nuts and bolts too ;D - Although the reviews said it was quiet I thought "your quiet is different to my quiet" but luckily anything beyond a foot away and you can't hear it even at full speed.
Wish those slow arse RetroPie guess would get on with a pi 4 release :P
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Although the reviews said it was quiet I thought "your quiet is different to my quiet"
Haha me too. One of the best features of the pi is being completely silent, no noise what-so-ever! Rather than my Windows PC grinding it's gears at times...But with the pi 4 being 3 times faster in CPU terms alone over the pi3 you *do* need a fan of some sort. This is the perfect solution, and is completely silent too.
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Wish those slow arse RetroPie guys would get on with a pi 4 release :P
lol yeah, me too. I have my desktop pi4 setup, which is great...This pi4 is soo tempting me to uniquely develop for it! I also want to put an arcade cabinet together with the pi4 and RetroPie at it's heart.
QuoteI also want to put an arcade cabinet together with the pi4 and RetroPie at it's heart.
I see there is a 10" Picade unit you can get which is pretty cheap but I think I'd prefer a full size cabinet. Although there is no way in hell the misses would allow such a monster stood in the room :P
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but I think I'd prefer a full size cabinet. Although there is no way in hell the misses would allow such a monster stood in the room :P
I grew up with arcade machines, there is not a greater sound for me than an old skool arcade. I'll compromise and just get one cabinet that plays all the classics instead! That's what spare bedrooms or the garage are for. ;D
Quote from: Steve Elliott on July 27, 2019, 20:44:10
I grew up with arcade machines, there is not a greater sound for me than an old skool arcade. I'll compromise and just get one cabinet that plays all the classics instead! That's what spare bedrooms or the garage are for. ;D
My first experience with arcade machines was as a kid when I went to the Isle of Wight on holiday. Sandown pier blew my mind with loads and loads of arcade machines and boy did I go through a truck load of 10p's every day. I'd run down first thing in the morning and then zoom down again at night :P
Amazing what sticks with you as when I pass arcades these days the bright lights, sound and atmosphere certainly gives you a buzz.
For me it was Barry Island, South Wales, but also the several arcades at Butlins Minehead on holiday as a kid and teenager...I'm sure there are VR sims available to recreate that buzz ;)
QuoteI'm sure there are VR sims available to recreate that buzz ;)
Pffft, no where near it :P - Let me know when a Star Trek type holodeck is real and then we'll have proper VR ;D
Paperboy stood out for me in an arcade in Helensburgh, handlebars as a joystick, just awesomeness, and a helluva lot of 20p s. Also...... Daytona! Ataris Pole Position got some use at my tech college. ^-^
Yep - but don't forget Outrun, with it's elevated hydraulic car!
@Qube This is what I was talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4JMJ8sU8Vw
Quote@Qube This is what I was talking about:
Cool, yeah I could have fun with that ;D
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Retropie - We are still working on Raspberry Pi 4 support. You may have seen some unofficial images from other people with some emulators working – but please bear with us. We also have some emulators working, but don't want to release anything until we are able to realistically support it.
That's good to hear and know that they are actually working on it :)
Apparently they were not given pre-release versions of pi4, which is not good. But from seeing arcade games run under pi3, I can tell you the pi4 version will be well worth the wait!
Quote from: Steve Elliott on July 30, 2019, 21:30:48
Apparently they were not given pre-release versions of pi4, which is not good. But from seeing arcade games run under pi3, I can tell you the pi4 version will be well worth the wait!
I'm being patient as I know it'll be worth it in the end ;D
Yes the RetroPie System is very slick and the best.
It's funny as I was browsing around the web and doing bits and pieces on the Pi 4 the other day just to test it out and it's amazing that it's all powered by a £50 device ( 4GB version ). Bluetooth, WiFi, GB ethernet, 4 USB ports, dual HDMI. £50 for 4GB computer which easily handles all your basic web browsing and email stuff, it's crazy when you think about it.
and a heater included ;)
Quote from: c0d3r9 on July 30, 2019, 22:53:32
and a heater included ;)
Yup, when winter hits the fan-shim just slides off and I then have a little hand warmer too, perfect ;D
Just goes to show the markup that must be in computer sales. I have a PI3b+ that cost around £40 that can do 90% of what I spend my computer time doing - ie: surfing, watching video's, email and stuff like that. I have a £250 PS4 that covers any kind of gaming itch I really need. And yet I've been looking through all the big retailers online to replace my 2010 Mac with a new model this weekend that is going to cost me probably around £1300.
It's an expensive job being a nerd :)
If you were a nerd you:
- would own more than a single console
- would own more pi's
- would have a newer computer (and most probably not a Mac ;-))
Am not sure if 1300 BP is "much" for a mac but I think it could become more expensive if you want something shiny new.
Still using my old notebooks (2005-2011), my old desktops (2011) and paid for none of them more than 400 € in total. Ahh and I do not own a single raspi, bananapi or whatever. Though I use 2 android TV boxes to replace my aged htpc (x265 decoding, less power consumption and requires way way way less space - costs for the first 25€ and for the second 0€ as they've sent me a version with less RAM than ordered so they allowed me to keep it for free - Asian Sellers ;-)). Newest console I still own? Sega Mega Drive - lurking around in the shelves next to an Atari 2600.
Not enough "new" or "ancient" hardware to count as computer nerd.
Gladly I like to fiddle around with computer software which might help to categorize myself at least as "IT nerd".
PS: to have something to say "ontopic" - I would not buy a raspi if it needs active cooling. The idea of these tinkerboards is to need as less additional stuff as possible. And if it needs cooling (when doing heavy processing or if temperatures outside are higher than average) then it is just designed wrong (or too "powerful" for my needs). Means we wait 2 years and get the same performance without active fan requirement. If stuff is planned to be used as media center then you should consider buying an android device powered by some armlogic (or so) processor together with some decoder chips who handle all the burden of ressource intensive video decoding.
If a "pi 2" had x265 decoder chips, hdmi, digital audio ... it would still suit by way less costs.
Raspis were initially created for tinkering not to replace computers or as horse power computing machines - seems people misinterpret it nowerdays. So I do not understand why performance must be increased so much.
I would have preferred a way cheaper device - eg. as a "big community driven" tinkerboard with a lot of chips (wifi, bt, ir, ...) for 10 bucks (not talking about the pi zero!) would be useful for so much little projects ... rather than spending 90 bucks for the pi4+additional stuff + screen to make it work as a computer. Hell, you could run two of these cheaper boards to finally learn running stuff on more than one single computer (DB on board1, server on board2, ...).
bye
Ron
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It's funny as I was browsing around the web and doing bits and pieces on the Pi 4 the other day just to test it out and it's amazing that it's all powered by a £50 device ( 4GB version ). Bluetooth, WiFi, GB ethernet, 4 USB ports, dual HDMI. £50 for 4GB computer which easily handles all your basic web browsing and email stuff, it's crazy when you think about it.
Yes the pi4 is amazingly efficient, very small, quiet and very cheap. Of course it wasn't just produced as a desktop replacement initially, but it's a very capable machine for a lot of general tasks.
Quote from: Derron on July 31, 2019, 08:50:48
If you were a nerd you:
- would own more than a single console
- would own more pi's
- would have a newer computer (and most probably not a Mac ;-))
Derron, I have about 20 consoles now, I think. I'd have to go up in the loft and count them as there are a lot.
I do only own one Pi, though.
As for a newer computer, i'm looking at buying a 2019 Mac. Can't get much newer than that. Not sure why I'm not a nerd because I'm a Mac owner, although I can live with it. I actually have 2 already but the other one is a 2014 mid-spec mini so you can appreciate I need something a bit more up to date now.
Quote from: Derron on July 31, 2019, 08:50:48
If you were a nerd you:
- would own more than a single console
- would own more pi's
- would have a newer computer (and most probably not a Mac ;-))
- would own more than a single console... Yes, I have an Xbox 360 and a PS3 ( gave up on big consoles due to silly priced games ). Also have a Wii, Switch, DS XL, 3DS XL, Oculus Go and Quest ( if those are consoles? )
- would own more pi's... Just one.... for now ;D
- would have a newer computer (and most probably not a Mac ;-))... Epic fail on "new" computers. No Windows PC's and the newest one I have is my iMac 27" 2017 model :o - a 2015 MacBook Pro 15" - MacBook Air ( 2014 I think ). Might upgrade me iMac in another year or two but it's fast enough for my needs at the moment so no hurry to chuck out silly money on a new one just yet.
I like to get at least 3 years out of new stuff before upgrading ( that includes phones / tablets etc ). The days of rushing out and buying the latest update to a computer / phone is long gone for me as the incremental updates are really not worth the stupid amounts of money they cost.
Quote
If you were a nerd you:
- would own more than a single console
- would own more pi's
- would have a newer computer (and most probably not a Mac ;-))
Consoles these days are overpriced with very expensive games and I don't think I'd enjoy a lot of the games, I much prefer Retro/Steam Games. The only TV based console I currently own is the WII which I haven't played in years, and various Portable Nintendo Consoles laying around somewhere, that probably don't work anymore. This will probably be my next console lol, plugged into a modern 24 inch monitor with a pi4 and using Retro Pie, rather than the crappy old tv in the video: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/picade-console
I own the major models of the pi. From the pi zero, pi1, pi2, pi3 and pi4, with the inbetween update models too - just not the A Boards.
lol my PC is certainly not new but runs things pretty quickly. I've doubled the RAM to 16Mb and upgraded the graphics card to a Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb) since I bought it. My newest Computer is a mac - a 2017 MacBook Pro Laptop.
I just hate the idea of spending £50+ on a game that I may get bored with within an hour and I don't work my arse off just to throw away £50 on a game because the reviews went all gooey eyed over the fancy graphics.
QuoteThis will probably be my next console lol, plugged into a modern 24 inch monitor with a pi4 and using Retro Pie, rather than the crappy old tv in the video: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/picade-console
Looks neat :) - Must admit I'm tempted buy the 10" picade unit as I think that'll squeeze quite nicely onto my desk. I think I'll treat myself to another Pi 4 and that as a Christmas present.
QuoteI've doubled the RAM to 16Mb
Woohoo a full 16Mb, you lucky bugger :P
Quoteupgraded the graphics card to a Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb)
Still say that's one of the best bangs for your buck for a decent GPU. Not crazy cheap or stupidly expensive and has good enough grunt to get the job done.
QuoteMy newest Computer is a mac - a 2017 MacBook Pro Laptop.
Are we all on older hardware here? Surely someone has bang up to date high end stuff which sucks the life out of the power grid?
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I just hate the idea of spending £50+ on a game that I may get bored with within an hour and I don't work my arse off just to throw away £50 on a game because the reviews went all gooey eyed over the fancy graphics.
Graphics don't make a good game, and gameplay has always been my number 1 interest in re-playing.
Quote
Looks neat :) - Must admit I'm tempted buy the 10" picade unit as I think that'll squeeze quite nicely onto my desk. I think I'll treat myself to another Pi 4 and that as a Christmas present.
I was too, but perhaps the screen is a little small? Although you do get a more authentic (if down-sized) arcade cabinet. I had thought of trying to get a full sized one built, but I simply do not have the time.
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Woohoo a full 16Mb, you lucky bugger :P
Haha, this is a pretty old system so I just added another slot of memory.
Quote
upgraded the graphics card to a Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb)
Still say that's one of the best bangs for your buck for a decent GPU. Not crazy cheap or stupidly expensive and has good enough grunt to get the job done.
Exactly why I chose it - but it also uses very low power, and when your power supply is not the most powerful it made sense - plus it's very quiet. And I really like the idea that it's a middle of the road system that I can test games on, without thinking I've a crazy powerful system here, what will anybody that doesn't have that kinda system get from my game? A slideshow?
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My newest Computer is a mac - a 2017 MacBook Pro Laptop.
Are we all on older hardware here? Surely someone has bang up to date high end stuff which sucks the life out of the power grid?
I bought the MacBook Pro last year, so I don't know why it's a 2017 model...Maybe Gabor has the powerful system? ;) Like I just said, I don't want a massively powerful system because it will be expensive, noisy and not what the average Joe/Josephine will have, therefore any games I write would perform poorly in comparison. The pi reminds us of fixed hardware that was around in the 80's. You couldn't just tell people to upgrade if the game ran slowly (hardware was fixed) therefore the programmer had to pull up the slack and get things running more quickly through efficient coding.
Too see if it works for average joe: use an IGP not a GTX 1050.
Power consumption of older (but then "one of the best") hardware is also way higher than needed - higher than having a nowerdays "mid range" computer.
Most of the time computers idle around and if they then still burn 50-60 Watt then something is going wrong. New GPU and high end intel CPUs are power consumers and until this changes I doubt to buy any new and shiny hardware.
CPU is in most games not the limiting factor - no need to have the newest model. GPUs are consuming so much power - time for some more dedicated chips instead of "useable for everything" (for this we have CPUs ;-)). Specialization limits versatility but allows for way better performance per Watt. No need to have 250-350 Watt power consumption just to play in "4k".
@ Wii
Have laying around the one of my sister for 2 years now - played it 3-4 times in that period to show my older one "Super Mario" (he enjoyed Super Mario 3 from the "Super Mario All Stars" rom/wii-emu-thing). A shame it has no 720p upscale (what is available if you emulate the Wii on your computer...).
bye
Ron
@Qube This is what I was talking about (on Steam): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4JMJ8sU8Vw
Busy as hell, but seeing as I mentioned it, installed it on PC late last night after work and loved it, I thought I'd give it another mention. I don't have a VR System (it supports VR) but it's great running as a FPS, well for the shooting games ;)
Somebody has done the hard work to set-up the arcade with real ROMs, I think only 3 don't work, but the rest do and all the arcade cabinet art and 3D Models are there. E to jump on a machine and Shift to add a coin, Enter to start, middle mouse button to zoom in, or use a games controller (X Box or Playstation)...REALLY takes me back, great stuff!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_5cFS3NEaE
Quote@Qube This is what I was talking about (on Steam):
Ah cool, so buy the game from Steam, download and install the NRAN add-on pack and that'll provide retro arcade games.
Then I just use VRidge to turn me Oculus Quest into a SteamVR compatible headset and off I go ;D
Cool, thanks, will give this a whirl at the weekend.
@Steve Elliot:
Quotelol my PC is certainly not new but runs things pretty quickly. I've doubled the RAM to 16Mb and upgraded the graphics card to a Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb) since I bought it.
I've also read you said:
QuoteI get 2800 FPS for the quickest build of AGK and AGK is not compiled to machine code, but to bytecode and then interpreted.
If I may ask:
Now I understand that is on a Mac? Does it give you this many fps running Qube's test??
I have a similar, but non-Mac, setup and it doesn't get passed 300 fps with vSync off. Now I'm wondering if it shouldn't actually produce more fps as it has a i7-7700HQ CPU with 4cores/8threads @2.8GHz , 8GB RAM, a GTX 1050 4GB GPU and 512GB SSD.
Precise specs below:
Oprating System: Windows 10 Home, 64-bit
DirectX version: 12.0
------ GPU ------
GPU processor: GeForce GTX 1050
Driver version: 431.60
Driver Type: Standard
Direct3D API version: 12
Direct3D feature level: 12_1
CUDA Cores: 640
Core clock: 1354 MHz
Memory data rate: 7.01 Gbps
Memory interface: 128-bit
Memory bandwidth: 112.13 GB/s
Total available graphics memory: 8134 MB
Dedicated video memory: 4096 MB GDDR5
System video memory: 0 MB
Shared system memory: 4038 MB
Video BIOS version: 86.07.3C.00.D4
IRQ: Not used
Bus: PCI Express x16 Gen3
Device Id: 10DE 1C8D 1A101043
Part Number: 2904 0001
------ CPU ------
Number of sockets 1
Number of threads 8
Socket 1 ID = 0
Number of cores 4 (max 4 )
Number of threads 8 (max 8 )
Name Intel Core i7 7700HQ
Codename Kaby Lake
Specification Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz
Package (platform ID) Socket 1440 FCBGA (0x5)
CPUID 6.E.9
Extended CPUID 6.9E
Core Stepping B0
Technology 14 nm
TDP Limit 45.0 Watts
Tjmax 100.0 °C
Core Speed 3391.7 MHz
Multiplier x Bus Speed 34.0 x 99.8 MHz
Base frequency (cores) 99.8 MHz
Base frequency (ext.) 99.8 MHz
Stock frequency 2800 MHz
Max frequency 3800 MHz
Instructions sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EM64T, VT-x, AES, AVX, AVX2, FMA3
Microcode Revision 0x8E
L1 Data cache 4 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 4 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 4 x 256 KBytes, 4-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L3 cache 6 MBytes, 12-way set associative, 64-byte line size
Max CPUID level 00000016h
Max CPUID ext. level 80000008h
Cache descriptor Level 1, D, 32 KB, 2 thread(s)
Cache descriptor Level 1, I, 32 KB, 2 thread(s)
Cache descriptor Level 2, U, 256 KB, 2 thread(s)
Cache descriptor Level 3, U, 6 MB, 16 thread(s)
FID/VID Control yes
------ Chipset ------
Northbridge Intel Kaby Lake rev. 05
Southbridge Intel HM175 rev. 31
Graphic Interface PCI-Express
Memory Type DDR4
Memory Size 8 GBytes
Channels Single
Memory Frequency 1197.1 MHz (1:18)
CAS# latency (CL) 17.0
RAS# to CAS# delay (tRCD) 17
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 17
Cycle Time (tRAS) 39
Row Refresh Cycle Time (tRFC) 420
Command Rate (CR) 2T
Uncore Frequency 3092.4 MHz
Host Bridge 0x5910
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I get 2800 FPS for the quickest build of AGK and AGK is not compiled to machine code, but to bytecode and then interpreted.
If I may ask:
Now I understand that is on a Mac? Does it give you this many fps running Qube's test??
That is on PC (not a laptop) runing the 2018 version of AGK and Qube's test, I don't currently have AGK installed on my MacBook Pro. PC specs: Windows 10, 64-bit, 16Gb RAM, CPU Intel i5, 3.2 GHz, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb).
Hmm.. Ok, well not to far off from my specs. And I noticed CPU is throttling up to 3.3GHz too, but other day I decided to give it a test with F1-2019 and performed pretty good, but got blistering hot in the area between the keyboard and the LCD.
Now I know it's not a true gaming laptop, but I didn't expect it to be getting this hot.
If it wasn't brand new I'd open up the little beasty to check the cooling but hey..
Quote
Now I know it's not a true gaming laptop
Laptop versions of PC are never as fast as Desktop PCs, because they contain 'mobile' versions of components.
Quote
Now I know it's not a true gaming laptop, but I didn't expect it to be getting this hot.
So again it will throttle back performance until it cools.
QuoteSo again it will throttle back performance until it cools.
What I meant was that it throttled up the GHz's while gaming and the game itself was running fine, contrary to what one might expect(throttling down when heating up so much that the metal top was very hot to the touch). Apparently the system doesn't see it as a problem reaching temps in the 90's for CPU and 80's for the GPU, it's just the fans that are speeding up and game was running full speed(no clue about fps though as there was no visible indicator).
Now I know from my previous job at Dell Tech Support that CPU's have a pretty high heat tolerance(100 degrees C is not a threat according to intel) and I'm guessing GPU's are similar, however I can't imagine that it increases the lifetime, nor that it will boost performance. In general the coldest you can get it, the better it is, regardless of what the manufacturers say. However, usually the system starts to take measures only when above 100+.
Anyway it's a bit strange imho. It's an Asus VivoBook Pro N580VD btw.
QuoteNow I know it's not a true gaming laptop, but I didn't expect it to be getting this hot.
Laptops hate being under full load for extended periods of time and games ( especially high end 3D ) will make any laptop get all toasty and scream for mercy. Those whopping sized fans and heatsinks in desktop PC's are there for a bloomin good reason and laptops in their ever expanding quest to get thinner and thinner just generally are not made for gaming.
QuoteLaptop versions of PC are never as fast as Desktop PCs, because they contain 'mobile' versions of components.
You are right that most laptops have mobile / throttled on purpose components and also there are some high end gaming laptops that use full desktop components but unless you really really need one I just don't see the point due to their weight and extreme noise.
Agreed, laptops are not the best medium for games, even my phone does a better job on 3d gaming then most laptops, ghegheghe.