Our next game comp will commence from May the 4th to June the 30th ( a slightly shorter 8 weeks one ).
No theme or details have been decided yet so here is the opportunity to post your theme ideas / rules to which we'll go for the most popular one. Failing any general consensus I'll dream up something :P
It also gives time for members to spread the word and form a team if they so wish to. There will also be two categories in the upcoming game comp to which details will be provided as of posting.
So, whip up your best ideas for a game theme + comp rules and lets see what we can come up with ;D
Let's see what we've had so far:-
Competition one: Asteroids clone.
1.. Must be all your own ( or teams ) work. I.E. no copyright media or pre-built game template.
2.. Provide a Zip download with at least a Windows exe. You can include other OS's too if you want.
3.. Source code is optional but preferable ( £50 GBP extra to those who provide full source code ).
4.. Choice of language is totally up to you.
6.. Prize to the winner payable via PayPal only.
rules that should still apply. Source code at discretion rather than extra prize money - Qube's discretion, maybe?
Competition two: Halloween theme
2.. Game frameworks are allowed as are free / purchased media.
4.. Syntaxbomb has zero rights to any work posted here. You / your team hold total control.
5.. Choice of language is totally up to you.
Competition three: Any game style using a retro virtual resolution of 320x200 and up to a 16 colour palette of your choice.
7.. Your retro style game does not have to fall within the capabilities of retro hardware. If you want to do a full on 3D game in a 320x200 res with 16 colours, then good luck.
Competition four: TV and Movies.
1.. No copyright media or modified pre-built game templates allowed.
3.. Individuals and teams are allowed to enter.
5.. Choice of language is totally up to you. You do not have to provide the source code.
6.. One entry per person / team.
Most of the rules that are needed are pretty much there. I would add the following based on this competitions voting.
1.. You are not allowed to vote unless you are already a member of Syntax bomb before start date of competition unless you are entering a game into the competition yourself. Or stick with the 10 forum posts rule.
2.. You can not vote for your own game full stop.
As for a theme, I'm going to mention the obvious, before someone else does.
May the fourth be with you. Star Wars for the win :-)
Ok, a Star Wars themed game is possibly going to end up with a competition full of shoot-em-up's but someone had to say it...
Possibly another theme could be "Summer" - although those of you in cold countries at the moment may not appreciate that.
And, additionally, we are coming into the school holidays so maybe "School" could be an interesting theme. We might get the next https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skool_Daze (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skool_Daze) come via Syntax bomb.
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May the fourth be with you. Star Wars for the win :-)
Obvious, and how the hell are we not getting sued lol?...So in effect a second challenge! ;)
My idea: Everyone takes one of their older games and "polishes" it (be it the mechanics or gameplay or just some media). For the voting, you post the old version untouched as well as the remake. One rule: The original has to be older than let's say three years ;)
Quote from: Holzchopf on April 19, 2018, 20:49:48
My idea: Everyone takes one of their older games and "polishes" it (be it the mechanics or gameplay or just some media). For the voting, you post the old version untouched as well as the remake. One rule: The original has to be older than let's say three years ;)
While I kind of like the idea, it would prevent any beginner programers from joining.
no star wars or other "licenced stuff".
Aside of "school" I would suggest "children's game" - so create something for the younger of us (or our kids).
A more "free" theme could be "hero of your youth" or some random stuff like "Bravity"(brave) - or trying out some of the competition-theme-generators.
bye
Ron
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"hero of your youth"
Personally I quite like this idea, a game that was special to you growing up.
Nah, I was not strictly talking about a "game of your youth" - as you else end up with seeing remakes rather "own" ideas. So a hero might have been the neighbour rescuing your cat - so bring up a game with neighbours.
Or maybe it was a superhero in a cartoon, or you enjoyed reading Robinson Crusoe or or or.
bye
Ron
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Or maybe it was a superhero in a cartoon,
So again, a remake? ;)
Quote from: Derron on April 19, 2018, 21:52:33
Nah, I was not strictly talking about a "game of your youth" - as you else end up with seeing remakes rather "own" ideas. So a hero might have been the neighbour rescuing your cat - so bring up a game with neighbours.
Or maybe it was a superhero in a cartoon, or you enjoyed reading Robinson Crusoe or or or.
Not hot on this. Way too vague. You could create a game of practically anything.
Interesting idea on the remake a game you did over three years ago but, as was mentioned, we really do want to encourage new game creators to compete.
Remake the game that you loved as a kid. I just did this - https://xerra.itch.io/envahi :-)
What about making an adventure game?
As in something like the old Scott Adams games, The Hobbit etc.
Can be text only or you can have some locations with graphics - for the guys who are good at that stuff.
Advantages: New coders won't get too bogged down in technical stuff.
Disadvantages: Need a good imagination to create an idea into an adventure game.
(Graphical) Adventure games are way too "asset rich" - you need to create tons of stuff.
@ cartoons
a Toon/movie is not a remake of a game (at least in most cases). Your hero might also be a soccer guy, so you create a soccer-career-sim, or your hero is your mum, so you create a mum-simulator :p (or a kitchen game in which you have to defend your fresh baked cookied from that hungry monsters named son and daughter).
But yes, "hero of your youth" is a bit too vague.
- "trapped monsters"
- "rock scissor paper" (so risk-games, rts games, ...)
- medieval times
- animal farm (not strictly the book... more "general")
- food (can be a match3, can be a kitchen-recipe-sorting-casual-game, a farm simulator ...)
- the world of drugs (fight them, produce alcohol, adventure game, ...)
bye
Ron
Quote from: Derron on April 19, 2018, 23:02:13
- animal farm (not strictly the book... more "general")
There's two films based on this book. I don't fancy writing a game based on the one I saw as a teenager :o
Quote from: Derron on April 19, 2018, 23:02:13- "trapped monsters"
That one sounds really cool.
my personal choice would be a "theme" and a "restriction"
it does seem that people are using more 'low res' types of games - so Why not enforce that in some form:
E.G.
screen res
colors used
ps1 - only use graphic up to PS1 standard
atari vc2600 - in the style of atari, or even remake an atari 2600 game - there are loads
if remakes keep cropping up. why not pick a 'system' (spectrum, c64, amstrad, etc) and make a game inspired that system. it CANT be the same game, but must be recognisable
or, any graphics MUST only use 1 or 2 or 3 colors + cutout color per sprite (no layering). so you could use lots of colors, but only a limit per sprite
or, maximum map size of 16x16 cells - how big or how you use those cells is up to you, but it must be obvious that no more is being used for a map
so to recap:
theme - "trapped monsters"
restriction - maximum map size of 16x16 cells
theme - "food"
restriction - in the style of atari 2600
etc
Instead of doing a graphical limitation (which I dislike as I ... see last discussion about it ;-)) we could think of having an "input limitation". I am talking about games which are playable with 1 button or maybe 2 (means for a mouse: either "x+button" or "x+y" or "button 1 + button2", so really constraint to two input objects - so yes, you get an information for free when using "x/y" rather a "0/1"-based thing like button presses).
So I am talking about a game in which you "auto run" but jump over hurdles, in which you automatically fly and dive down but move up while pressing a key. Maybe you could use 2 buttons - to ease the pain in the main menu (to be able to select something and trigger "button down" - instead of auto-selecting an item after 1 second and checking for the input).
The whole theme could have the restriction "restriction". Means you could limit yourself to 1-2 buttons, x colors - or something other interesting. Eg. You could have the restriction to either display the player/units/... _or_ the map (however this could become useful). Or you have all units running while you move, but as soon as you stop, all stop (like "turn based" somehow). ...
bye
Ron
I like the idea of having a theme and a restriction of some type but I'm dreadful with graphic stuff so having to work with a restricted palette or something like that, I'd be worried that I'd make a mess of setting it all up.
Limited controls is interesting - a very good idea.
How about a game based on a song you love? Very vague theme but could get some interesting results.
song is a good idea but a bit too broad like the movies. maybe limit it to a style or artist or time
or maybe in the style of an artist (painting artist, not music)
ohh 'Trapped monsters', Mark Rothko, Kate Bush
or Lichtenstein, Baroque
or Picasso, 70's prog rock - lol
Make the games educational, take the entries to your local school and have the kids vote on them.
Tom's idea could be interesting. It could be possible to pick a topic from the curriculum and write a game to demonstrate it (I recall the old BBC Micro having a handful of these types of programs, including Candyfloss). There's a teaching forum called TES, that used to let anyone post comments and add 'resources'.
On the bus to work I started jotting down general themes for a comp (graphical & non-educational themes):
melting or disintegration
gravity or magnetism
electricity (no cheating by claiming the computer runs on it)
volcano!
contagion
liquid
bounce, ricochet or deflection
great idea - if you have kids!
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melting or disintegration
gravity or magnetism
electricity
volcano!
contagion
liquid
bounce, ricochet or deflection
Some good ideas here.
Quote from: iWasAdam on April 20, 2018, 10:00:50
great idea - if you have kids!
retro ... good idea - if you cannot draw things in higher res
retro ... good idea - if you cannot handle HD+ resolution
remake ... good idea - if you cannot come up with something own
...
you can always come up with some "bad side" aspects of a theme/restriction. What you seem to miss is: you could try to sell stuff on the mobile app markets, children apps are more likely bought ("no ads") - at least I would think so. Also children games have often very simple but yet addictive principles. So even adults might play it for a while. Imagine a "train construction game" (you need to join locomotive with waggons - colored ones, transporting certain goods ... things get harder/varying, faster, ...).
Think plenty of games for younger ones could be played by older ones - either by increased difficulty or because they inherit some kind of "creativity portion" (just think of a 3D marble run construction software thing ...).
bye
Ron
Quote from: iWasAdam on April 20, 2018, 07:45:17
song is a good idea but a bit too broad like the movies. maybe limit it to a style or artist or time
Some ideas in that vein:
50's rock and roll,
DubStep,
Chip tunes,
and children's songs. (that would go with the children's/educational theme)
Ene mene meck, und Du bist ...weg
(ene mene moan, and you are ...go'an).
Children songs are often very "regional" so you might end up with some funny stuff. I suggested the children games because:
- I have a (2.5yrs) son
- adults can play them too
- do not require perfect polishing as children look for other things
- do not require perfect sounds
- do not need to have many localized texts (images > text)
- require us to do something "outside the box" (your personal knowledge of games does not help very much)
- might attract other people than with traditional genres
Disadvantage is: you cannot come up with some cheap ascii-adventure, it needs som kind of "recognizeable" assets.
bye
Ron
I had this idea today at work of perhaps a well known programmer with a good range of games could be suggested and then a list published and each person who wanted to enter the competition had to pick one and do their own take on it. Not a remake, but their own game based on the original concept and a fitting tribute. Perhaps make it interesting where Qube put all the participants into a hat and all the games into another hat and then matched up the person to the game they are going to work with.
Of course it would mean it would require knowing who's entering right at the start unless people actually decided to enter late. Not to mention that you don't really get to choose your game design, which could put someone off if it's a clunker.
Prolific programmers aren't hard to choose from, though. Andrew Braybrook, Tony Crowther, Jeff Minter, Dave Collier, Shaun Southern etc. And that's just on the C64.
I know people aren't keen on the remake idea but this is doing a tribute which isn't quite the same.
So, is there any general consensus on possible ideas?
Will we make page 4 and still have not clue... again :P
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Will we make page 4 and still have not clue... again :P
Probably lol.
If no consensus is found - use one of the compo generators. And if we agreed on using such a compo theme generator, then it can kept as a secret until start just because Qube is clicking "generate" 1 minute before start of the compo.
Technical restrictions (only green colors, only 1 button, only keyboard, no texts!, ...) should then of course be agreed to in advance.
@ no text
This would need _everything_ be selfexplanatory somehow, no guide-screen needed (but of course you could use some "auto play"-help-thingy in the startscreen if nothing was pressed for a while). Think exclamation, question, ... -marks should be allowed in that case (eg a "?" block to jump at for a random item - or to start the guide-auto-play).
Another restriction could be the game length. Maybe some kind of "5 Minute game". Means games should not take longer than 5 Minutes. But I think that is easier to achieve than games playable for hours.
bye
Ron
I agree on the Ludum Dare style theme generation.
http://www.cowfacegames.com/handytools/ludum-dare-theme-generator (http://www.cowfacegames.com/handytools/ludum-dare-theme-generator)
Maybe generate 3 and allow a choice?
Can we also make a rule that your game must be playable full screen?
Graphical restrictions could be grey-scale only or suchlike.
Renaisance, insane and attraction. I have no idea how I would even start a game on any of those themes.
Oh, wait, yes I do, on two of them. Ideas anyway - not sure on how to code them...
Maybe go with the two button restriction?
some random ideas:
- game must feature big swarms of enemies
- level layouts must be procedurally generated
- no direct steering/control of the gameplay characters (think Lemmings)
- player character can't stop shooting, the challenge is to not kill yourself or destroy needed parts of the level with the shots or laser beam (which preferrably bounce/reflect around a few times)
- each level exists in at least 2 states that you have to switch between (preferably quite a few times) to solve/finish it (can be time travel, dimensions, light&shadow, up&down flip, 90degree rotations, 3D&2D, whatever)
- game is focussed around big boss fights, basically a boss rush game with huge interesting bosses that have fun mechanics
- main gameplay mechanic is wind that pushes objects or the player around
- gameplay must be centered around a time control mechanic
- multiplayer type game but the enemies are CPU bots.
Quote from: STEVIE G on April 22, 2018, 23:11:34Can we also make a rule that your game must be playable full screen?
Oh heck please not :o Yes this is my personal opinion and I'm allowed to keep it for me, but: I'm in front of a WQHD screen and titles that are not designed to fit it just look horrible/unprofessional when stretched out to 2560x1440. And let's be honest: No one here cares for other resolutions. Everyone would just go for 800x600 or maybe 1024x768 just to suit as many screens as possible. But then again, this rule could be turned into something very thrilling by altering it to:
Thou shalt not write your game for a fixed resolution.
Also, add the possibility to run it in different resolutions so users can check if you stuck to this rule.
;D
Quote from: Holzchopf on April 23, 2018, 05:32:08
Quote from: STEVIE G on April 22, 2018, 23:11:34Can we also make a rule that your game must be playable full screen?
Oh heck please not :o
Lol, I think he means that the game should have the option of being full screen rather than just being a Windowed game only. ExBiEn ran in full screen and displayed black bars if it didn't fit the aspect ratio, so it shouldn't of looked too shocking full screen :o
Here's a reasonable game jam generator
http://orteil.dashnet.org/gamegen (http://orteil.dashnet.org/gamegen)
just keep clicking it for more ideas.
It's not brilliant, but it's a good place to start for themes.
I still like: Theme + restriction
Quote from: Qube on April 23, 2018, 05:45:05
Quote from: Holzchopf on April 23, 2018, 05:32:08
Quote from: STEVIE G on April 22, 2018, 23:11:34Can we also make a rule that your game must be playable full screen?
Oh heck please not :o
Lol, I think he means that the game should have the option of being full screen rather than just being a Windowed game only. ExBiEn ran in full screen and displayed black bars if it didn't fit the aspect ratio, so it shouldn't of looked too shocking full screen :o
Yes, I meant just an option.
Quote from: GaborD on April 23, 2018, 02:01:39
some random ideas:
- game must feature big swarms of enemies
- level layouts must be procedurally generated
- no direct steering/control of the gameplay characters (think Lemmings)
- player character can't stop shooting, the challenge is to not kill yourself or destroy needed parts of the level with the shots or laser beam (which preferrably bounce/reflect around a few times)
- each level exists in at least 2 states that you have to switch between (preferably quite a few times) to solve/finish it (can be time travel, dimensions, light&shadow, up&down flip, 90degree rotations, 3D&2D, whatever)
- game is focussed around big boss fights, basically a boss rush game with huge interesting bosses that have fun mechanics
- main gameplay mechanic is wind that pushes objects or the player around
- gameplay must be centered around a time control mechanic
- multiplayer type game but the enemies are CPU bots.
Some great idea's there!
Quote from: Holzchopf on April 23, 2018, 05:32:08
And let's be honest: No one here cares for other resolutions. Everyone would just go for 800x600 or maybe 1024x768 just to suit as many screens as possible.
my compo entries are designed for FullHD (1920*1080) as this might be what many "players" are able to use nowerdays. Many of us use virtual resolution already, so stuff get scaled down to the preferred resolution and bars ("letterbox") are added. Not all games could be run in all aspect ratios. Things like transport tycoon and the likes, they do not care much about it, but RTS games and the likes will have advantages or disadvantages for players with varying aspect ratios.
Think my "Creature Corp" could run in various aspect ratios, as I most often align elements with percentages to "width/height" of the app (or start in the center and move left/right by X). But i have to admit, that my "games" do not fully use aspect ratios yet (except for black bars).
bye
Ron
Quote from: Qube on April 23, 2018, 05:45:05ExBiEn ran in full screen and displayed black bars if it didn't fit the aspect ratio, so it shouldn't of looked too shocking full screen :o
Don't worry, you did a great job respecting that ;) Derron too. Maybe I exaggerated a *little bit* when I said no one would care (that's a valid measure to give your argument a bit more power) :P But I guess those hobby devs who just let everything stretch out are still the majority, that's why I think the "no fixed resolution" could actually bring quite a learning effect for many of us. I mean,
I only started taking other resolutions into account when going mobile - and that was... last November?
I was just looking at some entries for LD41 which was combine 2 incompatible/unlikely genres. Looks like alot of fun and some wierd and wonderful combinations. Turn based bullet hell, racing beat-em-up etc..
Quote from: STEVIE G on April 23, 2018, 16:59:42
I was just looking at some entries for LD41 which was combine 2 incompatible/unlikely genres. Looks like alot of fun and some wierd and wonderful combinations. Turn based bullet hell, racing beat-em-up etc..
That's a decent unique theme. Mix two genres ;D
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That's a decent unique theme. Mix two genres ;D
Yep, sounds good.
Quote from: Qube on April 23, 2018, 18:43:50
Quote from: STEVIE G on April 23, 2018, 16:59:42
I was just looking at some entries for LD41 which was combine 2 incompatible/unlikely genres. Looks like alot of fun and some wierd and wonderful combinations. Turn based bullet hell, racing beat-em-up etc..
That's a decent unique theme. Mix two genres ;D
Hmmm, let's hear your game idea about a turn based bullet hell, racing beat-em-up then?
Oh, wait! Road rage - played with dice.
Quote from: STEVIE G on April 23, 2018, 16:59:42
I was just looking at some entries for LD41 which was combine 2 incompatible/unlikely genres. Looks like alot of fun and some wierd and wonderful combinations. Turn based bullet hell, racing beat-em-up etc..
That idea sounds a bit familiar :)
https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,4006.msg11870.html#msg11870 (https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,4006.msg11870.html#msg11870)
Quote
That idea sounds a bit familiar :)
https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,4006.msg11870.html#msg11870
So there is actually a consensus?? ;)
Quote from: TomToad on April 23, 2018, 21:35:57
Quote from: STEVIE G on April 23, 2018, 16:59:42
I was just looking at some entries for LD41 which was combine 2 incompatible/unlikely genres. Looks like alot of fun and some wierd and wonderful combinations. Turn based bullet hell, racing beat-em-up etc..
That idea sounds a bit familiar :)
https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,4006.msg11870.html#msg11870 (https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,4006.msg11870.html#msg11870)
It's clearly a great idea ;D
Well a repeated idea sounds like a plan ;D
OK, so we'll pencil in the "mix two genres" idea...But keep it open in case some others popup.
Now... We need some for of limitation / boundary to go along with our potential theme ;D
Why does there need to be a limitation? Mix 2 genres seems perfectly fine.
And that might just be the case... BUT BUT BUT, if the topic is known now then some unscrupulous bad bad people could start their game tonight having an unfair advantage, so we need options available to make sure the exact nature of the comp isn't known until launch day. Got it? good :))
Please can we not use a graphical restriction like palette or similar. I'm already struggling with the concept of maybe not having my beloved 1024*768 resolution :-(
Quote from: Xerra on April 24, 2018, 00:16:39
Please can we not use a graphical restriction like palette or similar. I'm already struggling with the concept of maybe not having my beloved 1024*768 resolution :-(
There may be no limitations beyond the theme ;D - But just for you I promise no palette restrictions in the next comp, honest!.
As written already some time ago: If we used a theme generator then the generator is used right on compo start. Means you could even create a thread in advance and then edit in the theme on "midnight".
This could even get done by a script, so Qube does not need to stay awake till midnight :p
I would add to the rules, that entries need to have a screenshot - or some kind of "rectangular artwork" in the submission (could be added some time later - for the "late birds" submitting 1 minute before end). That way Qube could more easily fill the "competition entry"-overview-page :-)
bye
Ron
mix 2 genres sound good.
mix 2 genres from a list of 6 sounds brilliant!
Quote from: Derron on April 24, 2018, 07:41:11
As written already some time ago: If we used a theme generator then the generator is used right on compo start. Means you could even create a thread in advance and then edit in the theme on "midnight".
This could even get done by a script, so Qube does not need to stay awake till midnight :p
I would add to the rules, that entries need to have a screenshot - or some kind of "rectangular artwork" in the submission (could be added some time later - for the "late birds" submitting 1 minute before end). That way Qube could more easily fill the "competition entry"-overview-page :-)
I'm 99% always up and about at midnight ;D - There's a nice little project for you. A totally random game theme generator. Write it in PHP and then I just set the date for it to post and it makes up the comp theme / rules :))
Ok, here is a base approach (my PHP is a bit rusty so excuse if there are easier ways to do so).
<?php
date_default_timezone_set('UTC');
//may 1st 2018
$competitionTime = mktime(0, 0, 0, 5, 1, 2018);
//adjust random seeds per competition (read below about randomness)
$genreRandomSeed = 124564;
$themesRandomSeed = 4564658;
// genres
$genres = array(
"Action",
"Arcade",
"Jump'n'Run",
"Simulation"
);
// theme
$themes = array(
"Clowns",
"Exploration"
);
// some kind of "random" access
// we cannot use "mt_srand()" or "srand" as a potentially installed
// suhosin-patch will prohibit setting the seed accoringly
// so we just use the desired competition starting time, multiply it
// with a custom seed (so others cannot "precalculate" what will get
// output)
// TODO: fetch the random number from an external source, so Qube
// is not able to "secretly" generate something
// -> fetch from an external website having a random number
// generated at UTC "0:00" each day (best: with an archive
// of past days, so number stays "constant)
// -> this random numbers replace the random seeds for genre/themes
$genreIndex = ($competitionTime * $genreRandomSeed) % count($genres);
$themeIndex = ($competitionTime * $themesRandomSeed) % count($themes);
print "(debug) competition time: " . $competitionTime . PHP_EOL;
if (time() < $competitionTime) {
print "competition did not start yet - but for debugging we still print the stuff ;-)" . PHP_EOL;
print "(debug) genre: " . $genres[$genreIndex] . PHP_EOL;
print "(debug) theme: " . $themes[$themeIndex] . PHP_EOL;
} else {
print "genre: " . $genres[$genreIndex] . PHP_EOL;
print "theme: " . $themes[$themeIndex] . PHP_EOL;
}
?>
As stated you cannot use the inbuilt PRNG as mt_srand() and srand() might not work on your host (if you had suhosin patches installed).
Random.org provides some kind of "random number pregenerated daily"-files - if you subscribed ;-). If someone else knows a host who has a daily "at UTC 0:00"-generated file of some random stuff (can be text, numbers, ...) drop a line, we could use that.
Until then the basic idea is to have a random number be based on individual "seed bases" and the competition time (competition time would not be needed at all - but this helps making the number a bit bigger ;-)). The seed needs to be kept as secret until competition starts (as this would allow previewing what would get printed then).
Also we need to have some list of "potential themes" (genres, themes). So this could come from an external text file too.
Of course the whole thing could have another random part: either have "genre + theme" or some kind of abstract keywords - like "sexuality", "modern life", "pencils" ...
bye
Ron
Looks to me like the date that script goes live is 1st of May and not the 4th. Cool. Three extra days to get the job done :-)
Don't think Qube is going to attempt to rig it to get the themes of the competition early somehow. Paranoia in that script, lol.
It's not about what Qube does, but what others think Qube could do. Especially if you are able to attract some new users (promoting the compo to AGK forums and the likes?) envy and other bad behaviour might come to this place.
timestamp was just the begin of next month to test out.
bye
Ron
QuoteOk, here is a base approach (my PHP is a bit rusty so excuse if there are easier ways to do so).
Good stuff, thanks Derron :)
I'll build it up and then a few minutes before the comp starts I've do a video of the source code listing in a terminal window and then executing the script and showing the date / time. Sure, if I was a cheater I could fake it all but as I can't win anything then it's pretty pointless, plus I'd hate to cheat and even win a proxy placing as that not winning at all in my book.
So the comp will be a genre mix but what kind of mix and what kind of options remains to be seen ;D - I'll adapt the script to give entrants a few options as they may not like just having one option.
QuoteDon't think Qube is going to attempt to rig it to get the themes of the competition early somehow
Lol, no. My main goal here is to try and make sure everyone has the same amount of time.
As said, I'll create a video ( probably 20 minutes before the comp starts ) showing :
1.. A terminal window next to the clock showing date / time
2.. Listing the source in the terminal window
3.. Running the code
4.. Showing the output of the chosen mixed theme options
I think that's a fair enough system for this comp. A bit OTT but a bit of extra fun as I'll only get to know about 20 minutes beforehand myself what the options are ;D.
Plus the same system can be used for future competitions and just the themes thrown into the random mix changed. Not a bad idea at all.
What's the thinking? Two words out of six that Adam was suggesting? I like the sound of that. And maybe the six most interesting words suggested from now get thrown into the mix?
Here's a list of genres
Roguelike
Sim/simulator
Adventure
Real-Time Strategy (RTS)
Puzzle
Arcade
Remake
Retro
Low-poly
Cards
Card Collection
Tower Defence
Platformer
Strategy
Action
Mario
Endless
Stealth
Shooter
Match Games
Combat
First Person Shooters (FPS)
Sports
Role-Playing (RPG)
Educational
nice list - I would remove "Low-Poly"/retro as it is a graphical limitation and might look "odd" if you want to create a low-res/retro (2D) game already and now also need to make it "polygon style".
Also you (or I if desired) might add chances that "ambience" _or_ "theme" are left out (eg. 30% to skip ambience - and if not skipped, 30% to skip theming)
So you have genres - want to add "ambience" or a "theme" too?
"dangerous", "foamy", "bright", "frightening", "cute", "delicious"...
"Clowns", "Springs", "Animals", "Cars" ...
So the final generation might become:
dangerous
Clowns
Roguelike or Arcade
----
foamy
Animals
Adventure or Puzzle
----
Cars
Cards or Tower Defence
----
and so on.
One could even add another "option list to choose": lundum dare themes. So someone could use the LD generator and create a list of 20+ entries (or proposals from here in the forum). Then with X percent change a random theme from there is choosen instead of a random "ambience theme genre" mix.
@ video
If you use a video you could replace array access with a simple rand(0, count($arr)) :-).
What we could do too, is that eg. "I" create a script which creates a random file with a random number - a new one each day at UTC 0:00 and cached for further responses. I also host this script, so "a second person" is part of the random-challenge. The script on Qube's side is having a secret key _I_ do not know, and my script is using a key Qube does not know. Qube's script is then requesting a random seed from my (external) script. Gets a number which is very specific to that day (all people requesting the number on that day and afterwards will get this number). With this number and Qube's secret key we can generate a "seed" used for the calculation.
As Qube could manipulate the formulas to calculate stuff, the script must fetch it's stuff from external sources too - or the whole script is running somewhere publically (eg. a jscript on github pages) and is then fetching the two keys (eg. one from www.syntaxbomb.com and the other one from my www.gamezworld.de). The "key scripts" do return "0" in the case of the competition not being started yet (and the js could interpret it then).
Hmm, sounds also a bit overcomplicating just because of "trust". Think I would stay with the approach to provide a "daily random number"-script on my site + Qube's personal key. So neither me nor Qube can "precreate" something (but Qube _could_ still manipulate somehow). If the "generation script" (except used $key) is made public here, everybody could then validate the results, as soon as Qube posts:
- results
- his used $key for this competition (and my $remoteKey in case of a downtime on my site or so)
This is working as my key will be valid for the whole time.
To avoid "Qube is changing his key until a nice combination is found" I could have my skip save the used key too - and prints it out on request (so people could validate if there was manipulation on this side).
This is also overcomplicating _for_now_. But if there is interest I could code such things.
bye
Ron
For a random number seed, or the random number itself, that no one is really going to know until you generate it you could run a Sha256 algo over the text of the past <hours/days/weeks/months> posts?
You can then do all kinds of things with the bytes/bits to come up another number within a range. Everything can be transparent if people really wanted to calculate the result themselves too.
Just throwing some 'random' idea out there :))
As the "posts of the past" are constant if nobody posts, you could fetch the hash eg. at 23:50 (assuming nobody posts between 23:50 and 0:00). Also the post data is not "public", so it is the same trust-chain than with Qube just outputting a random number by a script he hosts. This is why you needed more chain elements for the trust chain (means more providers of "randomness") - or a trusted 3rd party (eg. a website nobody of us knows about). This is what I described with "one key by Qube" and "another part of the key by Mr. X".
So best thing would be a website, which offers something "new" at exactly 0:00 UTC (so automatically created). It does not have to be a number. We could create hashes out of everything, a little cartoon, a random joke ... If someone knows such a webservice, we could "use" it to our advantages :)
bye
Ron
I guess many files would be a bit much, but that's not really my point... you could just as easily use something more accessible to everyone such as the URL of our posts
https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,4450.msg16080.html#msg16080
F0 46 86 94 3F 5C 0E AB E2 0A 7C 88 81 A0 D5 D9 EF 78 F2 E9 C4 5E 18 BE 9D 80 BD 3E 0D 5A B1 C6
or my previous post
https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,4450.msg16078.html#msg16078
FF E6 60 05 92 97 2E 90 E2 D0 5E B8 05 75 41 76 D9 CF F6 99 03 44 EF BA F4 A6 DD 6C 02 0B 05 4D
You have 32bytes and 256 bits there that you can use in any way imaginable.
One idea is...
Say there are 32 genres you could use the highest of the 32bytes to be an index into the genres, sub genres: you can use the lowest of the 32 byte values as an index for a sub catogery, if there are more factors then its easy to come up something else - modulos of highest, lowest, mean values or index positions of the highest, lowest mean. That part is still open to debate of course - my point is a Sha256 algo can used easily to generate a truly random number and everyone can verify it using the generator at https://passwordsgenerator.net/sha256-hash-generator/ (https://passwordsgenerator.net/sha256-hash-generator/)
A quick example... the highest byte value for your number is at index position 19 [F2], the lowest is position 10 [0A].
For my number the highest is at index position 1 [FF], the lowest is at 21 [03]
So if there are 32 genres with 32 sub-genres you would pick 'genre 19 sub-genre 1'.
If there are collisions, say in my number 05 is the lowest, then you have positions 4, 13 and 31. You could calculate (4 + 13 + 31 Mod 31) + 1 to get to an index between 1 and 32. Use any formula you can think of get a range between 1 and 32 as it doesn't need to be what I have suggested here.
The picking formula would still need to be debated of course.
Another idea using the URL approach is that you could use the URL of the post that Qube decides to announce the competition itself. If anyone is truly worried that someone can predict the URL then they can put up some posts as a countermeasure. If someone has the smarts to predict the results of the genres in advance ( in order to get a head start ) using a similar method then they deserve to win :))
As I say... just an idea to ponder on.
Threads can get precreated (hidden forum) so you need to take into account something not manipulateable. In other words: you need data which is not under control of one of the contestants. Even if you had a "people online at x:y 01.05.2018" counter you could still not use it as seed as long as Qube is the one hosting the counter script. Of course I trust Qube to not do bad things, but this thread evolved into a "how to create random data at a predefined time and make it constant from then on" thing (@Qube feel free to detach the script+discussion into a new thread).
So as said instead of using stuff here from syntaxbomb.com we needed to use a "not by us modifyable websource". It must be something which is created every day but from then on "constant" (so people could validate the number _externally_).
Whether it is sha, bcrypt or whatever should not really matter as we just need a simple (big) number - which we could modify then to create some "Pseudo Random Number". "random.org" creates 8mb of random data each day, perfect for use - but needs subscription. Maybe there is another little service around the world doing similar stuff - or free.
bye
Ron
I thought the idea was to allow the dev to pick 2 genres from a list (such as Adam's above) and the theme (or selection of themes) to be decided randomly?
Sod all this fancy nonsense I say - just print the list of themes and genre's, fold them up, stick them in a bowl, let the Mrs pick them and post the results ;D
Quote from: STEVIE G on April 25, 2018, 17:44:12
Sod all this fancy nonsense I say - just print the list of themes and genre's, fold them up, stick them in a bowl, let the Mrs pick them and post the results ;D
Lol, I just wanted it to be random and then it turned into a code fest :P
Never fear there will be a long list like Adam provided and there will be three options of mixed genre. A nice scope of and something for everyone :)
@ Stevie G
You are on a programmers forum, so things like "randomness" and "security" might become center of a discussion. Excuse us (and as said Qube could tear our beloved posts apart of this topic ...).
@ Multiple Genres
I would say: pick 3 random XYZs - and the developer has to choose 2 of 3 to use in his project.
retro + vampire + racing (game)
-> retro racing game
-> retro vampire game
-> vampire racing game (my favorite ;-) - "blood stations" like schools/nursing homes to refill your tank)
But I am also not against some creative limitation: "auchlocaustrophobia", "like ice in the sunshine", "block-buster" ...
bye
Ron
I'm already plotting my game design based on "anorexic" "religious" "chicken" because I just know these random choices are going to work out bad for me. So who wants fried or scrambled eggs? They're currently cooking on a big bush and don't have many calories, honest !! ... :-)
Quote from: Xerra on April 26, 2018, 00:29:49
I'm already plotting my game design based on "anorexic" "religious" "chicken" because I just know these random choices are going to work out bad for me. So who wants fried or scrambled eggs? They're currently cooking on a big bush and don't have many calories, honest !! ... :-)
I prefer Baked grasshopper myself. :P
Make a 2D version of a 3D game or visa versa
Make a game about:
- an ecological or economical 1st world problem - keyword: "leaving a footprint"
- exploration (of the unknown) - so could even be a puzzle/arcade game in a laboratory (hmm....ideas forming ;-))
- warfare
bye
Ron
The easiest way to randomise the list is to pick the lottery results from the weekend nearest the comp and modulus the sum of the numbers by the list count and select that index. Agree on which lotto results before its drawn.
@ Matty
This does not solve any problem. We do not have issues fetching a "random" entry. The problem is that it needs to be unknown until competition start - and needs to be fixed/constant ("replicateable") from then on. So using a lottery number of "some days" ago is similar to saying: "ok, 4 days to go until competition, here is the number we agreed on to calculate used genres/themes".
In short:
- need a random number (or multiple)
- must be unknown (best is "not existing yet") until Date X
- must be constant from Date X on
bye
Ron
I suggest that the next competition should be a puzzle game where you need to solve "the best way to choose the next competition" problem...
The answer to the puzzle will be the parameters for the next competition.
Each play of the game will have a different result.
*cough*
You could take some exchange rate or price. E.g. if you go to https://www.coindesk.com/price/ you can see the price of a Bitcoin and apparently it's recorded and stored for some time. You could then say the price from May 4th 00:00 UTC is the hash for your random function. If someone is able to predict that over a span long enough so they actually benefit from it, they wouldn't be on syntaxbomb for a coding competition ;)
Quote from: Brucey on April 26, 2018, 16:13:16
I suggest that the next competition should be a puzzle game where you need to solve "the best way to choose the next competition" problem...
The answer to the puzzle will be the parameters for the next competition.
Each play of the game will have a different result.
*cough*
lol :))
I have a list of categories and I have a base script from Derron which I've added to, so from my side it's good to go ;D - It's perfectly random enough for me and will output three mixed genre's and entrants can then pick one of the three.
Apart from that, knock yourselves out on creating the ultimate random theme generator. Bloomin coders :P
Yeah, crypto currency is "random" enough.
You could request some information for the time before - but it seems as if the data is not available "0:00 UTC2 but a bit later.
https://api.coindesk.com/v1/bpi/historical/close.json?start=2018-04-25&end=2018-04-25
@ Qube
Best thing would be if it is "automated" somehow :-) - so creating a forum bot user ("CompetitionButler"), a simple script adding a new post of this user right on competition start (and "availability of the random number"). It autofills everything you need (template texts...). Why? Think of your age Qube, you get older and older, there will be a time in which "they code mostly at night" needs to get replaced with a more approbriate slogan :p
@ Brucey
I know, not the same thing - but your "winner leads to key for next compo" approach made me think about something else.
I would like to see some kind of "interconnection" between the entries - something "shared" between the games. So all of them have a hero/protagonist with the same "history", or are all taking place in the same "universe". So people playing the entries get a special feeling of experiencing another adventure of someone, or similar "aha effects".
Of course this does not work with simple logic puzzlers - you need to add some kind of simple story there to make it become part of that special universe.
In that case contestants would benefit of knowing who will enter for sure - so they could even reference the other entries in the game (a slight bit).
bye
Ron
Quote from: blinkok on April 26, 2018, 07:46:24
Make a 2D version of a 3D game or visa versa
I like this idea. Very interesting.
3D Solitaire game?
Not all games allow a 2d-3d (or vice versa) conversion or are you talking about a 3d world with a fixed camera / POV. Ok, I do not know who wanted to redo a solitaire game, but there might be other games not suitable for such a conversion.
bye
Ron
Maybe you can just use this simple system for random selection.
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a5oVPvg_460svvp9.webm
This is also a PRNG ... Person Random Number Generator :-)
I bet he never lands on the bottles of alcohol.
bye
Ron
I'm not sitting here waiting to see what the theme for the next compo is going to be - in around 12 minutes. No, sir. Not me...
Quote from: Xerra on May 03, 2018, 23:48:38
I'm not sitting here waiting to see what the theme for the next compo is going to be - in around 12 minutes. No, sir. Not me...
Lol, sorry, a little late on my side. Posting in about 10 minutes :)