due to being 28th in a list of stuff that would no longer be incorporated in a next release of Windows... or was it just a mild nightmare? :o
I think mark just fixed b+ and b3d so it works againon latest windows. Or is that not what you mean?
Awesome if Mark's just fixed it again - thats made my day. Theres just so much coding candy options these days.....
So, my christmas hols to do list:
[edit] drink less mulled wine.
3DzForMe>>what are you talking about ?
@remiD, rambling on a bit there... too much festive spirit.
Oh ! "tu divagues" ;D (=you are rambling)
That's one of the reasons I went to check AGK for no sense holding onto Blitz3D(even though I love it).
Blitz3d-NG: never gonna happen I'm afraid(or at least not likely to be updated).
BlitzMax-NG: development is slow, uncertain and doesn't have the 3d stuff I like + requires lots of hassle and dazzle to make it even remotely work like Blitz3D.
Monkey: not my cup of tea.
While AGK has all this stuff already and syntax and command are sort of familiar even though not exactly the same, it's quick to pick up. Also it is cross platform, has shaders and physics built in, is well supported, in development and has a future.
See: https://www.appgamekit.com/documentation/commands.html
Free limited trial here: https://www.appgamekit.com/trial
Quote from: Rick Nasher on December 28, 2017, 16:37:14
That's one of the reasons I went to check AGK for no sense holding onto Blitz3D(even though I love it).
My love for B3D will never die - I even managed to code my own 'Knight Rider' esque game, with car reversing out of an articulated truck and all... yes it was missing polish - but achieving that as an indy coder.
....
Quote
Monkey: not my cup of tea.
I've still my MonkeyX on my machine and the html5 compiler is gobsmackingly good. The data parsing I've achieved within that in a Web Browser really does amaze me still. I never really compiled too much for android - which was my goal - but HTML5 works on most platforms.
Quote
While AGK has all this stuff already and syntax and command are sort of familiar even though not exactly the same, it's quick to pick up. Also it is cross platform, has shaders and physics built in, is well supported, in development and has a future.
See: https://www.appgamekit.com/documentation/commands.html
Free limited trial here: https://www.appgamekit.com/trial
I'm teetering on the brink of purchasing another development tool - your praises almost has me sold on it already. Downloading the trial now.
@ 3DzForMe :
Enjoy, I think it's pretty cool.
Make sure to check out the included examples, usually here:
C:\Program Files (x86)\The Game Creators\AGK2\Projects (//http://C:%5CProgram%20Files%20(x86)%5CThe%20Game%20Creators%5CAGK2%5CProjects)
or for a quick impression from the downloads/refs here:
https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,3421.msg10288.html#msg10288 (https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,3421.msg10288.html#msg10288)
https://forum.thegamecreators.com/ (https://forum.thegamecreators.com/)
I agree to what Rick said. AGK is a good choice.
Currently diving in and testing it more deeply. Holds up really well so far.
You can get up and running with it really quickly, that's a big plus.
On my side, as long as Blitz3d programs work well on widespread versions of Windows, i will keep using it...
After that, i will probably follow the Blitzmax+Openb3d path... But for now it still works well, no reason to change... (the end of Blitz3d was announced when i started using it, 7-8 years ago... :P)
But show us what can be made with AGK, i am curious.
@RemiD
I hope it will last you a long time then. It gave me good fun too, but the workarounds to get something simple as a nice shadow plus working and at a decent speed too, were holding me back.
Hehehe, gave you some examples already. But I'm still plowing away on it. When done I'll publish of course, but I'm slow in time and means. ;-)
Quote
I agree to what Rick said. AGK is a good choice.
You can get up and running with it really quickly, that's a big plus.
Yes I agree it's very easy to get into, and documentation seems good too.
@Rick>>shadows are a waste of time/energy for an independent developper imo (unless the gameplay revolves around that, which is rare). Many games, even recent ones, can be played without shadows, and are still good nonetheless. Shadows are a plus, like post process effects, but a game can be good without it. (the ps1/n64/ps2/dreamcast/xbox/gamecube games !)
If i was aware about that a few years ago, i would have wasted less time/energy playing with shadows !
(my intent is not to criticize AGK, but rather to explain that some graphics effects are not essential to make a good game, so don't become obsessed with it, it is not worth it...)
Quote
shadows are a waste of time/energy
I totally disagree. I'm just working on a 2d game, and adding a little pixel art shadow makes such a big difference to depth.
Because Blitz3d made it difficult for you to make shadows, it has clouded your judgement! ;)
I mean trying to reproduce AAA shadows... realtime or precalculated and becoming obsessed with this (like i have in the past :D)
If i had focused my time/energy on creating gameplay and meshes/textures/animations/sounds, rather than on shadows and graphics effects, several games would have been finished !
You seem bitter lol. ;) Well yes, simple shadows are good enough though - move onto game play, then come back to the shadow problem later - or ship the game!
Quote
or ship the game!
after you ;)
The caracteristic of an obsession is that the one who develops it does not realize it...
@RemiD:
Must agree with Steve. Of course gameplay and controls are very important too, but shadows really add to the atmosphere of a game and in AGK they are very easy to achieve.
Have you given the trial a spin and run a couple of the examples I suggested?
(also not burning down Blitz3d, but AGK is very addictive and I'm just trying to get you hooked for I'm curious to see what a coder with your skillset can do in a less limiting environment, hehehe) ;)
@Rick>>No i won't, i plan to be the last one standing (using Blitz3d) 8)
@RemiD:
Guess you really one of those people who likes to torments themselves for no good reason. ;)
It's a pity for I thought you were a fan of procedural coding and that's currently a running topic:
Rotating cube with TV animated white noise texture and static noise (all procedural):
(https://www.syntaxbomb.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi67.tinypic.com%2Fv3oacx.jpg&hash=e48ffe1d72dca122d74b6144172869e3f9fec2f6)
Procedural wood texture on procedural furniture:
(https://www.syntaxbomb.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2m3o6cg.jpg&hash=4a80aee33f975489e885c91bb42b07ad0862af00)
Procedural textures on random shapes:
(https://www.syntaxbomb.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F16iil2f.jpg&hash=da6e500558002a8b583d368c210c822e1f1ebbd9)
All procedural texture + gfx on my 1st/3rd person controller.
(https://www.syntaxbomb.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2lximoo.jpg&hash=2b8e51841593c70c867716bed967477ccb5ccbe6)
(https://www.syntaxbomb.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi67.tinypic.com%2F73gmk1.jpg&hash=df967a1e01307aa46fd7639d9a36f77a536c3d0c)
(https://www.syntaxbomb.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2psemab.jpg&hash=c1a7ee1f15467bd75a884f438cdc9121cbf0b4ae)
Also lighting is interesting..
I see nothing impressive in your screens... Surprise me, and i may use AGK, but for the moment, no reason to !
Well Gabor is impressing me with his AGK screens.
@RemiD:
What would you like to see? Any suggestions?
Gabor is going loose with shaders:
https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,3750.msg9667.html#msg9667
Quote from: RemiD on December 28, 2017, 19:30:45
I mean trying to reproduce AAA shadows... realtime or precalculated and becoming obsessed with this (like i have in the past :D)
If i had focused my time/energy on creating gameplay and meshes/textures/animations/sounds, rather than on shadows and graphics effects, several games would have been finished !
Well, the good part is you just have to do it once. Invest a day, get some decent quality ESM or such up and running and you are set for your upcoming games.
That said, I do agree that many devs are too tech and gimmick focussed. I know I am. Then again, I don't do 3D gamedev as primary income currently, so why not try all the fun stuff.
But.. when I see another racing game that is at night.. in the rain.. I am going to puke. Yes they can do reflections on the street in realtime now. I GET IT. The art design shouldn't revolve only around that gimmick though.
It all comes in waves. First we had the plastic sheen on every wall with overdone pre-PBR pointlight speculars, then the totally overdone bloom, then everyone slapped 5 tons of chrom abb on their games, then it was totally unrealistic godrays, now it's SSR. :D
@RemiD, hmmm, do you need glasses to see the polish of what has been presented as a very good example of AGK?
I'd like to accept your challenge of being 'the last one standing' with B3D, however you must be much older than moi, coz I cannot see me failing to compile within B3D anytime soon. Have you found the holy grail?
[edit] I've been on the festive spirit a little too much, I'm happy theres a language which is akin to B3D in many guises - As the thead title suggests, the amount I've achieved within B3D over the years is beyond my wildest dreams from when I first coded on the ZX Spectrum over 3 decades ago.
So, I'm glad B3D will compile for a while longer, as I advance in years - my offspring recieve more attention than my coding blah, and rightfully so. Nevertheless, whatever your coding tool of choice, Happy Coding New Year :P
Quote from: RemiD on December 28, 2017, 21:11:21
Surprise me, and i may use AGK, but for the moment, no reason to !
If you are happy with B3D, stick with it, I agree to that. B3D is great for a lot of retro-ish game styles, in the top two of my favorite all time engines.
That said, AGK does pretty much allow you to take it as far as you want to, which many engines don't do.
I will post a vid of real test scene with some neat effects soon, working on it in my free time.
@GaborD:
Cant wait to see it. The shots look really awesome and I'm a sucker for visuals.
@RemiD:
Ok, I give up for this is starting sound like programming harassment and I don't want a #MeToo registration. :P
@Gabor>>i have seen some of your screenshots on the nuclearbasic forum, and i was impressed, you have created really nice (per pixel ?) lighting/shading/shadows...
On my side, i have done several experiments with per vertex lighting/shading and per texel lighting/shading. (old school style 8))
Quote
What would you like to see?
nothing, i have a game to finish, without any lighting/shading (fullbright), using 2D hand drawn/paint shapes and quad meshes (and sounds captured in my local environment with a cheap microphone!). ;D
Quote
What would you like to see?
nothing, i have a game to finish, without any lighting/shading (fullbright), using 2D hand drawn/paint shapes and quad meshes (and sounds captured in my local environment with a cheap microphone!). ;D
[/quote]
Now I see, love can be blinding, and RemiD would appear to be blind by his love for B3D. AGK does seem pretty swish though. Even if it does trump B3D, I confess, life commitments/choices (including the odd bit of parental responsibilities) preclude me from ever coding to the extent of fun I'd with B3D in the past. Good luck with whatever your coding tool of choice is.
For the immediate future, my choice will be B3D. AGK next.... who knows?
Quote
Good luck with whatever your coding tool of choice is.
Quite right. But it's never a bad thing to suggest alternatives. :)
I am not blind, my short term goal (programming related) is to finish a game which is "good enough" for the competition, what would be the advantage to use a language/engine that i don't know well and have to learn ? None.
Also, since what i said was apparently not clear enough : my next goal (programming related) is to create a game similar to those on saturn/ps1/n64/pc (1996->2002), not to play with new languages/engines/systems and achieve nothing... (like i did in the past)
@remiD, sorry, I was speaking (typing) figuratively - I will confess to have a 'love' for Blitz 3D myself. I see creating things in 3D as a mixture of art and engineering, it is great to be able to express yourself not simply in the flat old 2Dimensions - but to be able to do it in 3D is really something to behold.
I really didn't mean to cause any offence, and I still hope to be the last one compiling in B3D, I (think) I've still got the capability to compile in BBasic 2.1, however my attic might have rendered my Amiga less than useful..... :D
I admire your sense of purpose and direction, which is more than I can say for moi. As for your point about not achieving stuff, for one, you've been an inspiration and source of resolutions over the years for one or two coding head aches I've had. So, you achieved stuff for me, yep, I'm rambling, but that'll be the festive spirits casting their spells again.
Happy Coding ;)
@RemiD @RickNasher
Hey guys, don't count out Monkey-X or even Cerberus-X yet, :) it's actually closer to BlitzBasic and B3D (with MiniB3D). I was also intimated at first, but after a few ports of some demos here and there and other archive codes, it is really a great cross-platform transition.
I also got some 3rd party android SDKs ported (basic API stuff to see if it's working) in just a couple of days and might plan to do a fork soon or eventually as I have originally planned when I first joined here (see my earlier posts). :)
For latest 3D stuff, Vortex2 is coming along nicely (not yet 1:1 with B3D commands, but getting there) now with textured shadows, assimp support and pretty soon writing custom shaders.
As for BlitzMax/NG, I think this is a different route and will be more like Monkey2 with Brucey's plans of emscripten web target. For staying with Blitz3D, yes there's already BRL's latest Visual Studio 2017, which seems you are all already aware of (This is also Blitz3D 1.108 binary release btw is on BRL's itch.io product page)
I still dabble with B3D and Max stuff as it is still an interesting and quick platform for desktop builds. I have tried AGK (trial) and even DarkBasic Pro for a good amount of time, but for me it does not scale up when you now do complex or even object oriented stuff. I'm not a fan of the different syntax or command set as well.
I must admit this is not a very convincing post (not really intended), but I think you're really missing out and overlooking Monkey-X as Blitz3D's successor, at least in my opinion and now that is free and opensource. ;D
@3DzForMe
Good to see you got some MX web going on there, it is also my goto target for trying out new and web stuff. :)
@RonTek, yeah, MonkeyX is very capable and it is astounding what can be achieved within the HTML5 target. I've been unable to try out Cerberus as I'm still stuck in 32-bit land. Interesting about the Visual studio release of B3D.
@3Dzforme>>don't worry, i am not offended easily, i just like when things are clear, why i do what i do...
( oh, and i will be the last one standing (using Blitz3d) :P, so start using AGK now, for your own good, i see that you are becoming weak, starting to kneel down under the oppression ( i am joking ;) ) )
No retreat, no surrender, just when you think you're the last one standing and B3D fails to compile for you - I'll stumble out of the woodwork with my creaky compiler pumping out 3D wonders. Oh, and yeah, I'll be having another peek at AGK today, maybe after walking the dog. :D
About lighting/shading, i just want to clarify something, i am not saying to not spend time/energy on that, a nice lighting/shading is always appreciated, however i suggest to not become obsessed by that and spend too much time/energy on that (so that it looks "realistic"), because if you play many games which can be made by an independent developer, (saturn, ps1, n64, pc(1996->2002)) and maybe if you are really skilled and motivated (dreamcast, ps2, xbox, gamecube), you will realize how imperfect, unrealistic the lighting/shading/shadows are in most games... But if the gameplay is fun enough, if the controls are "instinctive enough", if the graphics style is nice enough and consistent, if the sounds are immersive enough, you (and the users of your game) will appreciate to play anyway.
Shadows (realtime or precalculated) are different because it takes a lot of time to setup and often you have to optimize things in the game world just so that there is no graphics artifact and so that it runs fast enough.
So yes, but no, or maybe, each his own tastes/priorities, i suppose :-\
Quote from: 3DzForMe on December 29, 2017, 08:32:54
I've been unable to try out Cerberus as I'm still stuck in 32-bit land.
I'm not sure if CX defaults to 64 only, but you can always try the Pro87version which works on both 32/64bit and is now available at BRL Itch.io page.
Blitz3D
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/hammer-wooden-mallet-15497741.jpg)
Agk
(https://www.homs1852.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/MEPE_Martillo_picador_Hitachi_h55.jpg)
They're just tools, they won't do anything on their own, but behind them there may be great artists. Something personal is that you can make games with both, and I think the graphics are in the background when it comes to gameplay.
True. But Blitz3D has been abandoned by it's creator, so possibly an unreliable tool (no I'm not talking about Mark, honest) ;D
Where as AGK is updated regularly.
Plus it's not that big a switch from Blitz3D to AGK. It even supports the B3D file format.
You can use any language/engine that you want, what really matters, apart from the compatibility / stability / runningspeed, are the gameplay + the art (shapes/colors/animations/sounds)...
However if you have to think a lot to convert your thoughts (what you want to achieve) into code, maybe the language that you use is not the best ? (=it slows you down!)
That's why i like Blitz3d, you have an idea, you code as you would think/speak, done ! ( but some others languages are good too in this aspect, fortunately !)
Quote from: RemiD on December 30, 2017, 19:52:42
You can use any language/engine that you want, what really matters, apart from the compatibility / stability / runningspeed, are the gameplay + the art (shapes/colors/animations/sounds)...
However if you have to think a lot to convert your thoughts (what you want to achieve) into code, maybe the language that you use is not the best ? (=it slows you down!)
That's why i like Blitz3d, you have an idea, you code as you would think/speak, done ! ( but some others languages are good too in this aspect, fortunately !)
That's how I judge engines. How quickly/easily does it let me do what I want to do.
All the coolest tech is somewhat pointless if it's a huge hassle to use. Time is too short to waste it. :D
That said, the engine has to be able to actually do what I need it to do in the first place.
Quote
That said, the engine has to be able to actually do what I need it to do in the first place.
Of course. I should have said : that's why i like the blitzbasic language/syntax. But Blitzmax+Minib3d/Openb3d is similar, and there are probably others (there was Xors3d at a time)
What happened to the "nuclearglory" basic/engine ?
Quote from: RemiD on December 30, 2017, 22:12:50
What happened to the "nuclearglory" basic/engine ?
I would say it died due to it's subpar pricing model (low one time fee, lifetime updates).
Basically, after a while it didn't support Matt anymore so he went off to do other things.
That's my take on it anyway.
I was hoping he would opensource it (I am surely not the only one who would have loved to see it finished up, PBRified, 64bitified and documented. We could have made a community driven project out of it), but oh well.
Luckily, so far it looks like AGK is very similar in terms of performance and the freedom to delve deep into the shader side of things, so it should all be good in the end. :D
Quote
What happened to the "nuclearglory" basic/engine ?
..this one looks very complicated..apart from things Gabor said, there are other problems, like, money exchanging hands while product is not delivered...then all went political (thats how it sounded) where author had to leave country?? ..i have lost nice money on that thing, including payed 500$ for some feature which should be integrated and never was....shame really as that tiny engine is fastest thing i have seen up to date..
Yep that was one very fast 3D Engine. I was gutted when I could see Matthew becoming distant.
Ouch about the loss of money though.
QuoteThat's why i like Blitz3d, you have an idea, you code as you would think/speak, done ! ( but some others languages are good too in this aspect, fortunately !)
QuoteTime is too short to waste it. :D
yep ;)
(https://www.syntaxbomb.com/gallery/2_25_01_18_5_27_41.png)
Just something to say, Blitz3D is still alive, I don't know how long it will be, but he's still fighting.
What i find funny, is that the games made using AGK, triggered an error message on some computers, and asked to install something :
Quote
Failed to create XAudio2, make sure you have "directx end-user runtime" installed
Whereas, the games made using Blitz3d apparently worked well.
So no it is not dead yet !
its fair to say. from the recent compo entries, it was indeed just a nightmare. Good old BRL released a swish piece of coding genius in Blitz3D that is, for want of a better word, ACE ;)
What i find good but surprising is how Blitz3d programs still works well on modern Windows OS, whereas some coders said that the engine was too old and that it was the end, more than 10years ago !
I guess blitz3D will continue to work fine until they drop 32bit support and who knows how long that will be
I have seen that people are working on windows compatible os'es. React os is one of them I think. Maybe in the future these os'es will keep running b3d and 32 bit.
since apparently 64bits computers / OSs have no problem to run 32bits softwares, not sure why 32bits softwares should not be supported in the future ?...
It will run as long as MS keeps the 32bit sub system in 64bit Windows.
Same as it has a 16bit sub system in Win 10 32bit.
So I guess when Win [whatever the version number] 128bit becomes a reality, they'll phase out 32bit and so on?