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January 16, 2021, 09:34:04 PM

Author Topic: Monkey X2 Dead?  (Read 5994 times)

Offline Hotshot

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Monkey X2 Dead?
« on: November 15, 2019, 11:31:39 PM »
I have try checked the official Monkey X2 but it seem I cant access it or the official website been delete it for some reason.

So does it mean Monkey X2 is dead?

Offline Pakz

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2019, 05:33:02 AM »
The package can now be downloaded from itch.io The github repo is also stil there.

The last update from itch was from end of 2018. There was a update planned recently but nothing happened yet. There is also the discord channel but it has been quiet for a while.

I stil use mx2 as it stil works inc.uding the emscripten.

There was a whole update planned where the direction would be going into faster compile time towards emscripten.

Last I checked the last activity in the github was 4 months ago.

Offline Qube

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2019, 06:12:09 AM »
So does it mean Monkey X2 is dead?
I'd not expect a big load up continued updates to be honest. Mark killed of every language he's done and also closed down all the forums which I find a huge kick in the teeth for the dedicated community. At the least he should have offered for someone to take it over or even asked for donations to keep it active.

Monkey 2 pretty much stopped decent development when Mark found a full time job. I can sort of understand that but I still think the whole thing sucks for all the Blitz related community as in the end it came across like he didn't care much at all.

So if you're happy with Monkey 2 in it's current state then great, but if you're expecting quality continued development then at the best that side is going to be very slow.

A better alternative if you like Monkey would be CerberusX as at least that's getting decent development.
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Until the next time...

Offline Derron

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2019, 09:06:06 AM »
IWasAdam has a fork of Monkey2 - dunno what he changed/improved/kept meanwhile - and if he is willed to spread his fork around.

If you do not need html5 then have a look at BlitzMax NG - and if you need html5 but not the most advanced language features of m2 then use Cerberus-X as Qube proposed already.
And if you do not dare learning something new: Godot or Unity or LibGDX or ...


Think for Mark Sibly it is a wise decision to move one ... nothing to care for anymore and a halfly secured income. Surely better for his mental health - and for the health of all the users who he would let stay in the rain sooner or later. The target he has choosen is acceptible somehow - the way he took to reach the target is not.



bye
Ron

Offline iWasAdam

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2019, 11:33:06 AM »
MX2 is based on Monkey2 V1.1.06 (last revision was up to v2018.08 - yep mark not only dumped the users but the version number too)

It's been compiled for Windows, MacOS and Linux - web output was always terrible, so I've not included it, plus there is lots of stuff removed - json, html, sql etc as these are just not needed.

Why MX2?
Basically because I have made soo many changes to the base code - particularly the compiler, Std/Mojo/Audio mods also including a different version of mojo3d - that actually works (for my needs)!
Ted and Ted2Go are also dropped in favour of my own Ted21

Offline Dabz

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2019, 07:17:01 PM »
Cerberus-X seems to have come a long way since I last peeked it at... Nice work there keeping it all going! #respect

What I would really love to see with something like CX is a system where, you really really dont have to faff on with targets, it gets me all of the time, I'm lazy see, and yes, it no excuse I know, but one of the things I loved about GLBasic was the fact, you didnt have that faff!

Granted, you couldnt get away with having to bootcamp Windows and install XCode when going for iOS, but everything else, well, you just clicked build and it worked, no matter what the target was, you programmed on Windows, and out popped a binary for said target.

Yes, it lead to a massive installer sizer for GLBasic, which, was then split into separate downloads for each platform, but all you needed to do was unzip that into the "platforms" folder, and voila... That was it!

Obviously thats a heap of work for the guys on CX, and a bridge too far, but, just something I think would be really cool for it in the long run!

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Offline Derron

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2019, 07:34:37 PM »
> Granted, you couldnt get away with having to bootcamp Windows and install XCode when going for iOS, but everything else, well, you just clicked build and it worked, no matter what the target was, you programmed on Windows, and out popped a binary for said target.

runtime + assets + user script (someone made the binary for the target and this runs the individual userscript + assets then).

So the same as with Godot.


I would like to see that with native builds ("optimized") but seems this is not famous amongst the current toolchains.


bye
Ron

Offline Hotshot

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2019, 11:48:00 PM »
GLBasic? I couldn't really get on with GLBasic which is a shame.

BlitzMax NG? I do have BlitzMax but don't used it much.

Cerberus-X? Good to see them keeping working on it but I don't used it that much.

Godot? Confusing for me

Unity? Seem alright but then when next update come and you have code that doesn't work and you have get round it. It can be right pain!

LibGDX? I have heard about it and I checked youtube for it but not for me thought.

There is other Programming that you could try

RayLib
AGK Studio(I havnt got it yet as the price is too high!)

So is IWasAdam  working and improving Monkey X2 or somethings?

Offline iWasAdam

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 06:31:18 AM »
mmm, mx2 is a fork.
Monkey2 as a language is excellent - very stable, and quick. But...
as a production language for games - very bad! Let me explain:

all the basic stuff is there: rendering, sound, drawing. but none of it is finished, there are holes and things missing  EVERYWHERE! The moment you start to notice something missing, you have to work around it. or make your own version - and you find that there is something missing from the core that prevents it from working, so you need to fix tiny bits of the core the make it work the way it should. all of these are then cumulative - to the point you have a fork and can't go back.

So mx2 has super extended color systems, graphics upgrades, primitive updates, lots of tweaks, additions and wierd fixes, etc.
There are also tiny changes with parsing and compiling that Mark saw and deliberately changed (just because). Hence MX2 looks and feels the same as monkey 2 but definitely wont compile on monkey2.

Offline Pakz

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2019, 10:13:06 AM »
I wrote this recently in Monkey2.

https://cromdesi.home.xs4all.nl/emscripten/dudespacemining/Main.html

I was looking around for anything that might replace monkey2 but nothing really suited for me at the moment. Blitz3d is stil high on several lists of options for 3d gamedev which is kind of what I started seeing as this problem that there really is not anything on the market that is very good and easy to get into at the moment.

Offline Derron

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2019, 10:35:40 AM »
@ Pakz
Parallax of the "nearest stars" is way too strong - almost as if it were space trash on the same level as the ship.

Regarding Emscripten I liked the Monkey/Cerberus-output being html+js.


bye
Ron

Offline Pakz

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2019, 02:19:58 PM »
@derron - I wil modify a bit the next time I have some time for it.

I was kind of impressed by p5.js. It has a webeditor and exports your project as html+javascript. They updated it recently. The coding train is a real nice channel using this language also. The web editor seems to work on tablets as well.


Offline Phil7

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2019, 03:03:27 PM »
@ Pakz You did a lot of examples in MonkeyX and then switched to monkey 2, right?
What did you miss in MonkeyX, or put better: what are reasons you did not go back to CerberusX?

Offline Pakz

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2019, 03:29:20 PM »
I sometimes stil use monkeyX. Stil the original one though. But prefer Monkey2 for it seems to be just that little bit better in the language and has 3d.

CerberusX I installed yesterday again. Though I gave up when I had to install a visual studio sdk for the desktop target to compile(monkey2 is all set up and works with visual studio so I am not touching that at the moment) and random example code included for cerberusx would not work with the html5 target. Not sure about what is up with that?

Online Steve Elliott

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Re: Monkey X2 Dead?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2019, 06:15:18 PM »
Not so much dead more like abandoned, left for others to pick up the pieces; just like every Mark Sibly language.
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