I appreciate what you are saying Adam and I do muddle through with my programming . The reason I make my programs is I get some sort of satisfaction out of it . Really wish I had been to college or whatever and learnt to program properly from the start but I didn't and am self taught . Been at this two years and have 10 games under my belt and they have improved no end in that time . I have my own style of programming which is to make it as simple as I can . The one I'm working on now is the best one so far and is way more advanced than my first offerings and am building it in PB , probably gonna be ready in a couple of months all going well. I'm not what I would call thick but I'm not as smart as some of you guys on here but I'm enjoying what I do and I think if I come up with the right idea I may just make something out of this . I have offered my services for free on my website but so far have no takers . I don't get many visitors . Anyway over and out . Enjoy your coding .