July 15, 2019, 10:09:54 PM

Author Topic: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2  (Read 1653 times)

Offline Qube

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2019, 08:49:39 PM »
So what is the real deal here? Is he dropping M2 or just the website?
He's thinking of dropping the M2 website and also M2 will just be getting bug fixes when reported on Github. M2 as you know it is no longer in development as Mark now wants to do a wasm-monkey variant but only in his spare time.

With all the community and language dumps I'm surprised he even wonders why the M2 site is tumbleweed. Erm, you keep dropping everything on a whim perhaps?. You've alienated a majority of your customer base?. Your "couldn't be bothered" attitude? or perhaps the "I have a real job so won't be doing much on the M2 side which you donated to, bought me a phone and funded £1000 a month for a half baked 3D engine". Take your pick!

So much talent :(
Yup, agree with that. It's very sad how it's all turned out but that's how it goes sometimes.
Until the next time...

Offline c0d3r9

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2019, 08:54:10 PM »
And the new language is.....?
TADA   -> LEMMING   the new great language by M.S.
The big feature is there is no need to drop it into the trash....lemmings are doing this thereself.  :))
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Online Steve Elliott

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2019, 10:19:22 PM »
Basically Mark Sibly went from Indie Language God, to very lucky he wasn't jailed for taking peoples money under false pretences.  Do not give this con man a penny more.
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Offline Naughty Alien

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2019, 04:38:25 AM »
..initially, just before blitz site went down with no warning whatsoever(a month before announced time), i thought it will be okay eventually, as community will overtake blitz site over that 1 month period as it was already initiative, and probably Mark will reconsider at some point. But next morning, when i couldnt access blitz site, i knew that point of no return has been reached..what a sham and lack of sight to see whats really needed(community members were louder than Forest Gump , yelling "YES DRILL SERGEANT!!!")...all it was really needed is cross platform B3D with a bit updated engine (DX9 will do)..people will swarm blitz site..but hey..

Online ThickO

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2019, 09:23:38 PM »
Marks patron page is shutdown now.
3D makes my head hurt...

Offline therevills

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2019, 10:34:10 PM »
Marks patron page is shutdown now.

I thought he shut that down months ago...

Looking here, it was in October:

https://graphtreon.com/creator/monkey2

And:

Quote
I’ve decided to leave patreon off for at least another month too, as I’m still not sure how much time I’m gonna be able to put into monkey2 in the near future.

http://monkeycoder.co.nz/2018/09/16/mid-september-update/

Offline Krischan

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2019, 10:41:35 PM »
I've said it a zillion times, but... Mark should have done a yearly paid model for Blitz3D 2 for Windows, Mac and Linux.

Full ACK. Let's compare: I now pay 141,94€ per year for an Adobe Photoshop CC subscription which I use occasionally but getting updates. How much would I've paid for an annual subscription to a modern Blitz3D/Blitzmax successor that is as easy to learn and use as its predecessor? How much would others have paid for it? For me it would have been worth €100 per year since I use it more often as Photoshop and create much more useful things with it instead. Even as a hobby without earning money with it it is not really much money for it. I've already spent a lot more money on other software that I don't use anymore.

But. He totally screwed it up when he closed the Blitzbasic community. But luckily this community here is a worthy successor, smaller but finer, the essence. Blitz went Open Source and it's up to the community what comes next. So i don't think we should wait for any more products from Mark S., he should go his own way.

Unfortunately, Blitzbasic in its current status is dead and a mess. It is difficult to compile for newbies and there are too many different versions out there, some totally outdated, some half-finished with different 3D engines. AGK looks promising but misses important features like easy vertex manipulation which is ridiculous and is closed source. And C++ is too complex for simple indie game projects IMHO. So there is no real alternative in sight. I know there is BlitzmaxNG but I'm looking more ahead, a new concept, a new name, a new product, a break with the old products.

I'm actually still waiting for someone stand up and say: "Stop waiting for something new to come. We're doing it on our own, the way we always wanted it to be, from scratch. With a simple syntax like in Blitz3D, easy to learn but object-oriented. With ALL the features we always wanted. Modular like Blitzmax. Shader support. Modern. Future-proof. Focused on developers and enthusiasts. With a great IDE better than BLIDE to handle larger projects. And everything as open source. We can do it ourselves, all together, everybody can contribute. The power of Open Source."

A lot of source is already there, we have BlitzmaxNG, OpenB3D and many talented programmers which is a good start. Or are we already too old for this?
Kind regards
Krischan

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Online ThickO

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2019, 11:00:24 PM »
Didn't see the date.
That makes sense.

You have to give him credit for doing that.
3D makes my head hurt...

Offline 3DzForMe

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2019, 11:19:03 PM »
Quote
. Unfortunately, Blitzbasic in its current status is dead and a mess. It is difficult to compile   

If folks choose to use vanilla Blitz3D it's far from a mess and dead, it still works a treat, on Windows 7 and 10. There are various other products in the blitz stable, however you wouldn't lump one car makers compact vehicle in with its family's saloon and label them all as dead and in a mess. A trifle negative and not exactly true. What's more, Mr Sibly made it available for free, and that generosity results in so much vitriol. Ah well..

Offline Yellownakji

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2019, 11:22:01 PM »
BlitzMax was once let-go by Mark Sibly for Monkey X
Monkey X was put on ... "maintenance mode" for Monkey 2.


BlitzMax NG is done for some years now by Brucey. It gained some more supported platforms than BlitzMax: so Linux, Mac, Windows (BlitzMax) and additionally iOS, Android, rasPi, NX/Switch-development-devices. It does that by converting blitzmax-language to "C" (plus a ton of little adjustments here and there for android/ios ...) and the help of some libraries like SDL which support these platforms.
To make it produce "html5" stuff it would need to be able to work flawless with emscripten. For now emscripten and the Garbage Collector used in Blitzmax NG are not keen to get  best friends -> html5 target not working/incomplete.


bye
Ron

Original Xbox *might be happening in the future.  ;D  Things have been looked at.

Offline MikeHart

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2019, 06:32:30 AM »
I believe that there is still a market for a Blitz3d like language. But what is super difficult is to support different platforms. Devs want them all.

Offline Krischan

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2019, 07:56:34 AM »
@3DzForMe: dont' get me wrong - it is still a mighty toolbox, it may still work now, but let's think about the coming years. I'm still using BlitzmaxOS but it feels like riding a dying horse. I've never really seen any sense in the Monkey "thing". I appreciate the work on BlitzmaxNG but - in my case - without a better IDE I'm not using it yet. I never really liked the standard IDEs, in Blitz3D I used IDEal and in Blitzmax BLIDE. MaxIDE is sufficient in many cases but not to me.

With BlitzmaxOS+OpenB3D+BLIDE I'll continue to use BlitzmaxOS for the next years and must switch over to NG at a certain point.
Kind regards
Krischan

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Online Steve Elliott

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2019, 08:37:52 AM »
Quote
I believe that there is still a market for a Blitz3d like language.

Yes I agree with you and with most of what Krischan said.
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Offline Derron

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2019, 09:18:50 AM »
With BlitzmaxOS+OpenB3D+BLIDE I'll continue to use BlitzmaxOS for the next years and must switch over to NG at a certain point.

Feel free to contribute to the NG project - write a super-duper IDE, write a language plugin for IntelliJ or another one of the "big IDE pack" (atom, source, ...). They all offer a kind of extension system.
At the end you will get a cross platform IDE with syntax highlighting, auto complete, refactor, ... - it is "just" a matter of someone writing it.

Did you ask Ziggy by mail if he _could_ adjust Blide to make it work with NG params? Did you? Did he say "no way" ? Why?

Open up a new thread for "Blide + NG" or so - I bet you could write a wrapper for "bmk" which Blide then uses to call stuff. This wrapper auto-appends the params you want to the original "NG bmk". Dunno about support of the new keywords etc - but as you do not use them for now I think they could be neglected the first while.

For me BLide is no option as I am running Linux and the .net components BLide uses (especially for syntax highlighting) do not work well here. Which is why I added syntax highlighting and a basic "compiler box" as addon to Geany (open source text editor). Geany is what AGK uses too as its editor. I just use MaxIDE for debugging as I did not spend a second yet to write debugger-support into the geady addon (as there is MaxIDE for this purpose...).



bye
Ron

Offline Pakz

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Re: Mark considering shutting down Monkey 2
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2019, 07:30:12 PM »
Skid mentioned(discord) he is trying to buy Monkey2 from Mark. He also ontop of that wants to pay to add documentation and take it off open source and put it on steam. He is also looking(payed job) for someone to create a Blitz3d interpreter for mojo3d.