May 21, 2019, 10:49:40 PM

Author Topic: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..  (Read 2041 times)

Offline Qube

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2019, 04:37:13 AM »
If it compiles the code, they'll get my money.
It'll still be compiled to byte code but I really hope their next move is for native compiled code.
Until the next time...

Offline blinkok

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2019, 06:10:07 AM »
Just out of interest Qube. Have you tried downloading geany for mac to see how it performs?

Offline Qube

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2019, 06:33:59 AM »
Just out of interest Qube. Have you tried downloading geany for mac to see how it performs?
Yes, I made a post on the AGK forums that Geany by itself works fine both visually and scrolling speed. Paul ( the creator of AGK ) has not been able to pin point why their changes to Geany have resulted in it being blurry or why it's taking too many CPU cycles on Mac. The odd thing is if I boot my Mac into Windows via BootCamp the AGK IDE is crystal clear and smooth scrolling so it's clearly something on the Mac side which has changed recently. I can't blame Mojave alone as older versions of the AGK IDE work just fine.
Until the next time...

Offline blinkok

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2019, 06:51:52 AM »
That's very weird. I wonder why they wouldn't just copy over the newer scroll/display code and use that?

Offline Xerra

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2019, 07:02:43 AM »
If it compiles the code, they'll get my money.
Argh, I was about to learn GameMaker because of that. And now I wonder if I should not wait for more infos...

*edit*, I just read that on AGK forum

Quote
it all works and the live debugger where you can change values as the app runs is very cool

Which makes me think that it is still interpreted which would be logical but well, we need more infos.

Gamemaker does it both ways. You can either use the interpreted compiler which sounds like it does what AGK does. Once you have a final build then you can also use the YYC (YoYo Compiler) option to build a proper app/exe. I've yet to create anything that's so system resource hungry that needing to do that was required. I'm assuming there's a lot of excess stuff stripped out before it's built with the second option.

Online Derron

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2019, 07:27:03 AM »
@blinkok
The agk editor is based on the existing open source editor Geany. Geany uses GTK for its widgets. And the text area is "Scintilla". GTK handles the scrolling. Scintilla can react to interactions by updating displayed content.

So basically Geany is doing scrolling etc.

AGK might intercept certain stuff... Or use some provided functionality to add autocomplete, tooltips...

Autocomplete can get dynamically updated...to reflect newly entered code. If not done properly or if there is a bugged event emitted for "content changed" then this update process can run over and over...leading to a ressource hogger.

Smudged display can be a missing xcode setting. Compile a previous AGK editor version and if that works, compile the newer one with the same project settings...


Bye
Ron

Offline Rick Nasher

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2019, 10:02:04 AM »
@Steve
But then there was GTA Vice City.. and I was hooked!  :)


@Qube
Dunno if possible in any way, but wouldn't it be possible to just rip out the 'old' editor stuff and implant that into the new install?  I mean:

On Windows the compiler lives in:
C:\Program Files (x86)\The Game Creators\AGK2\Tier 1\Compiler

And the editor in:
C:\Program Files (x86)\The Game Creators\AGK2\Tier 1\Editor

I'd didn't see any name changes in the compiler, so probably any references to it from the editor would be the same making it perhaps possible to just replace the new Editor directory with old one and still work, unless AGK does something other than just reference it of course..

Did you try this?




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Offline Rick Nasher

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2019, 01:34:41 PM »
Just seen an update on the matter.

I don't mean to be pessimistic and do not want to offend anybody, so that's why I'm not posting on main site, don't want to influence potential buyers and AGK userbase here is small :-X, but my guess is if they release it like *this* , a *lot* of people will hold-off, for is too little on offer to upgrade:

Imho the drag & drop, the discount and new, faster engine, won't do it by itself. Peeps will just wait for the pricetag to drop again in like a year or so, unless they have specific needs for Vulkan(don't think there will be that many really). 



I'm guessing they'll require funding to continue dev progress, so if I could see some *real* commitment to improving features where they left out on AGK2 I would certainly buy, regardless if Studio is useless to me in it's current state for I can't run Vulkan on my machine(s).   ???

However, if I do *not* see that explicitly promised, then I'll have my reservations and perhaps will hold out to see what happens too.
Current statement "we'll see when V1 is out" is bit too casual for me.
You can't sell a product like that to a user base of which in part feels left in the dark by previous developments(e.g. Visual Editor, IDE on Mac failing, not extending physics nor adding much desired commands, abandoning previous projects while not finished etc ) when there's soooo much competition,  like for 2D B4X and for 3D the likes of Unity(which is free initially, great networking, but not my fav), Godot(free and allows C#, python and scripting a.o.) and last but not least their own AGK2, which I already own.



I'm committed and helpful, but not silly. I can see another meltdown like BRL's on the horizon if they don't wise up, but who knows I might be off completely(truly hope so).  :(


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Offline Pingus

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2019, 05:55:04 PM »
@Xerra

Quote
Gamemaker does it both ways. You can either use the interpreted compiler which sounds like it does what AGK doe

Are you sure about that ? I mean I did not see anything interpreted in GM (which btw seems a great tool, a bit expensive for hobbyist but it seems serious work).

I would probably not need for a *real* compiled app targeting only PC/Mac, but as my purpose is also to go Android, I prefer to stay on the safe side with a compiled app. It would be pretty harsh to realize that after several months of development you realize that you can not port your game because the standard cheap ARM proc can not handle too many loops by frame and bring your game to 10 fps.

Offline Qube

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2019, 06:43:55 PM »
I don't mean to be pessimistic and do not want to offend anybody, so that's why I'm not posting on main site, don't want to influence potential buyers and AGK userbase here is small :-X, but my guess is if they release it like *this* , a *lot* of people will hold-off, for is too little on offer to upgrade:
On the surface it's not a fantastic new product from the outset but it's a path forward for no doubt a much needed cash injection for the further development of AGK. For me it'll be worth it alone if the IDE is fixed on retina / mac displays ( confirmed as not based on the current Geany version so sounds promising ). As I use AGK a lot then the small price they are asking is worth it for me. Granted I'd prefer a fix for the AGK I own but I also don't mind supporting a product to continue it's development. Constant development needs cash and if this iteration of AGK brings them in a good chunk of cash then that can only be a good thing or AGK.
Until the next time...

Online Derron

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2019, 07:11:10 PM »
We had this issue already but lines like this:
https://github.com/TheGameCreators/AGKIDE/commit/b50cf9cf9dc342d6ff3fc590c652bc50dd90a850#diff-162ee16ff8a5b326a6177eaceec56a1a
could be the reason for broken scrolling

This change they did in 2019 was patched into the scintilla sources in 2015
https://sourceforge.net/p/scintilla/code/ci/c313e8bb753b01d21885be5f07b1ccca36d07936/

Maybe they use some outdated libs which are not aware of Mojave - and with one of the minor updates the trapped into some mysterious stuff of Mojave.


bye
Ron

Offline Rick Nasher

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2019, 07:36:25 PM »
Quote
I would probably not need for a *real* compiled app targeting only PC/Mac, but as my purpose is also to go Android, I prefer to stay on the safe side with a compiled app. It would be pretty harsh to realize that after several months of development you realize that you can not port your game because the standard cheap ARM proc can not handle too many loops by frame and bring your game to 10 fps.

Actually, on my Android phone(Galaxy S7 Edge) the code runs much much faster than on my PC from 2007, so wouldn't worry about that.
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Offline Xerra

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2019, 07:47:40 PM »
@Xerra

Quote
Gamemaker does it both ways. You can either use the interpreted compiler which sounds like it does what AGK doe

Are you sure about that ? I mean I did not see anything interpreted in GM (which btw seems a great tool, a bit expensive for hobbyist but it seems serious work).

Here's how it works.

Each target platform can have one or more output formats, the main ones being:

    VM: The VM (Virtual Machine) target uses a generic runner for each platform and then interprets the code for your game. In general this option is used for testing due to its faster build times, but it does not offer the same performance boost that using the YYC option (if available) offers. You can use this to compile smaller game or games where performance is not ever going to be an issue, however.

    YYC: The YYC (YoYo Compiler) takes the normal GameMaker Studio 2 output and compiles it into native code for the target platform, "stripping out" unneeded functions and performing a host of other optimisation techniques to create a smaller and performance enhanced executable. This can increase your games performance by at least two or three times, especially on logic-heavy games, ideal for those larger or CPU intensive games. Compile times may take longer and you should always clear the compiler cache before building any final complete asset package for a target platform. Note that the YYC target may require extra tools to be installed for the platform selected, otherwise it will not work - you can find further information about this from the YoYo Games Help Center as well as on the individual target Preferences pages detailed in this manual.

    JavaScript: The JavaScript target will only be available for a few targets, like the HTML5 target, and sets the game to be compiled to pure JavaScript.

I do recommend it as definitely an entry level into making games, even if you want to go lower level later on. I've completed maybe 2-3 games in Blitz over the last 10 years and have loads of half-written stuff. A lot of that is my fault as I don't consider myself to be that prolific but I released 3 games last year and had two which are very close to completion. That's an incredible improvement since changing my development system so it definitely worked well for me.

Offline Pingus

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2019, 09:39:37 PM »
@Rick,

I would'nt say a S7 is a "croweded" CPU. When you target at Android, the aim (for selling casual games at least) is to spread at the biggest amount of people, including those who have cheap chinese smartphones and tablets.

@Xerra, thanks for the details, so a VM is used for running/testing your game, interresting.
Would you mind to describe a bit more your experience with GameMaker coming from Blitzmax (maybe in another thread) ?

Offline Pingus

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Re: New TGC product: AGK Studio(=AGK3?) + discounts for early adopters..
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2019, 10:45:53 PM »
Ok, this answer my question:

Quote
* Exe's will be the same as they are in AppGameKit Classic

https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/223741?page=2

So back to GameMaker for me (too bad I really prefer the AGK language).