June 18, 2019, 02:54:02 PM

Author Topic: Crazy Caves  (Read 3756 times)

Offline Steve Elliott

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2019, 04:17:54 PM »
Not really, they're on a different layer and the resolution is higher on that layer.  Resolution is not limited according to the rules.  And even if I merged the sprite and scan line layer in Photoshop, to produce a 'baked-in' sprite with scanlines I think this would still be within the rules.

What I'm doing is working on the basis that the play area is 1024 X 768 (which is 4 times the Speccy resolution of 256 X 192) so sprites aren't too small on a modern computer.

For that size of game play area my characters need to be 8 X 8 pixel sprites.  To make them a reasonable size and to give a pixelated look I've magnified them by 4 and saved them in Photoshop at that size.

Now I'm running the game in 1920 X 1080 (no limit on resolution according to the rules, just look and feel).  This gives the next layer of black scan lines a thin enough appearance, and then overlay them on top of the sprites.  The outside of play area will either be left black or a border added.

Hopefully that is not against the rules - Qube?  I personally think optional graphical features should be left until after the competition.  But this approach adds resolution (without effecting the 8-bit look and feel - and palette).

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Offline Xerra

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2019, 04:50:02 PM »
Not really, they're on a different layer and the resolution is higher on that layer.  Resolution is not limited according to the rules.

Think the scan-lines look good. Should hope resolution is not limited as I've doubled mine already.

Offline Steve Elliott

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2019, 05:07:37 PM »
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Not really, they're on a different layer and the resolution is higher on that layer.  Resolution is not limited according to the rules.

Think the scan-lines look good. Should hope resolution is not limited as I've doubled mine already.

Thanks Xerra, I think scanlines add a nice textured look and seem more authentic when emulating old hardware.  But I wanted to approximate scanlines without adding extra colours or alpha - which *is* against the rules.
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Offline Qube

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2019, 08:00:07 PM »
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Hopefully that is not against the rules - Qube?  I personally think optional graphical features should be left until after the competition.  But this approach adds resolution (without effecting the 8-bit look and feel - and palette).
Nope, there are no rules regarding resolution. The colour palette you have to use so we're all working with the same colours of our chosen machine ( as there are variants out there ). Strictly speaking there are no rules on alpha either as that falls into voting category 3 :

As mentioned in the rules : "You do not need to go into crazy minute detail emulating your chosen 8-bit computer. You also do not need to use the resolution of your chosen computer. However, your game must clearly be recognisable as a game of that chosen computer."

For example my Speccy palette is actually 17 colours as I use 0,0,1 to represent a black outline on sprites. To the eye it's a black outline so still falls well in with "your game must clearly be recognisable as a game of that chosen computer"
Until the next time...

Offline Derron

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2019, 09:21:18 PM »
Hmm, seems I used the wrong words. It was not about the "resolution" of something.

Ok, assume you have a 4x4 pixel sprite. You render it out "scaled up" by eg. 2x. Your sprite is rendered in a size of 8x8 pixels, each pixel of the original image has a size of 2x2 pixels on the screen.
So far no problem - as we surely all do it that way.

The issue I see is, that your scanline results in the sprite being no longer 8x8 pixel but 11x11 pixel (a black scanline on the left, middle, right + top, middle, bottom). On a CRT you would have colors "melt together" - your black lines would avoid that or add other effects (the act as "contrast emphasizers"). Similar is to see on a TFT - you can recognize individual pixels (talking about the old 1024x768 15" inch screens some of us had in the early tft days - or do you remember "netbooks" ? ;-)).

I like the effect as it looks like an LCD display or so - still it is something which might not be intended.


Regardless of above: there is no "rule" stopping us from experimenting so keep going - just wanted to explain myself.


bye
Ron

Offline Steve Elliott

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2019, 11:08:03 PM »
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On a CRT you would have colors "melt together" - your black lines would avoid that or add other effects (the act as "contrast emphasizers"). Similar is to see on a TFT

I like the effect as it looks like an LCD display or so - still it is something which might not be intended.

Regardless of above: there is no "rule" stopping us from experimenting so keep going - just wanted to explain myself.

Yes, and thanks.  It does give clean lines (like a LCD) but it was just a way of breaking up 'blobs of colour' some emulators produce when emulating older systems on modern monitors.  The rules said no extra colours (just the palette provided, but extra resolution could be used).  I used extra resolution just for the scan lines on top of pixelated graphics without adding extra colours.  The graphics don't change, a higher resolution series of black lines are just added on top.

Yes you explained yourself and I don't think the few tiny sprites really give anything away regards the levels or gameplay (which is intentional).  :)



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Offline Qube

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2019, 11:28:31 PM »
It's a good way to add fake scan lines by upping the scale and then using 1 line per 4 vertical lines to create the effect. Effectively just making use of the extra resolution while strictly speaking keeping the default resolution for the pixels :)
Until the next time...

Offline Steve Elliott

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2019, 11:04:00 PM »
Busy with work so not much done bar a few animation frames.  Hope to get back to it very soon.

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Offline Qube

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2019, 06:17:14 AM »
Your little dude looks like he can run like like the wind ;D
Until the next time...

Offline Derron

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2019, 06:23:21 AM »
Your little dude looks like he can run like like the wind ;D

From mouth/head to is only one pixel line away from the butt cheeks - maybe he is in a hurry ;-)


bye
Ron

Offline Steve Elliott

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2019, 10:59:28 AM »
lol in this game you're constantly running about, or you'll not last long.    :D

Haha  ;D  An 8 pixel character is a challenge in it's self (scaled-up after) but far better than the original character used in the game it's based on.
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Offline Steve Elliott

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2019, 12:35:21 PM »
ok I have some spare time to spend on the game now.

First thing I've done is improve the scan line effect. To re-cap I drew some 8 X 8 pixel sprites (Graphics.png) scaled them up in Photoshop by 4 so they're a sensible size and introduced some blockiness - then saved that file.  A scanline effect was then added to the sprites, Scanlines1.png shows my last scanline effort, and Scanline2.png the new scanline effect.  Added a blur for extra authenticity (Scanlines2Blur.png)

Adding scanlines gives a more authentic look I feel.
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Offline Steve Elliott

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2019, 08:19:09 PM »
Started coding, getting the little dude running about under key control and animating.

One thing I've noticed is scan lines are a no no for some resolutions, no real surprise.  Scaling makes a mess of the scan lines, so would need to be turned off.  This shot was at 1920 X 1080 fullscreen and is fine with scanlines.

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Offline Qube

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2019, 09:56:23 PM »
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One thing I've noticed is scan lines are a no no for some resolutions, no real surprise.  Scaling makes a mess of the scan lines, so would need to be turned off.  This shot was at 1920 X 1080 fullscreen and is fine with scanlines.
I assume the higher the resolution the better the scan line effect scales up?. Perhaps you could have it enabled for 1080p resolutions and above?. Or have a little more complicated version by having code / scan line images based on the more common resolutions 768, 800, 900, 1080?
Until the next time...

Offline Steve Elliott

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Re: Crazy Caves
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2019, 10:02:59 PM »
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I assume the higher the resolution the better the scan line effect scales up?. Perhaps you could have it enabled for 1080p resolutions and above?

Probably ok for 1080p and above, yes.  They'll be options to turn scan lines and 8-bit blurry screen effects on or off.  It's not something I'm going to dwell on just now as I want to concentrate on the coding.
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