June 26, 2019, 08:12:00 PM

Author Topic: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK  (Read 3075 times)

Offline GaborD

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #90 on: March 10, 2019, 03:18:38 AM »
..i did asked for source version of software (NF) since i have payed for almost everything produced by author, plus some more (500USD for some things to be updated in NF, which never happened)..so source request/access was granted, and idea was to share it with community and keep it alive..but site was down before i could have it...crap...

Yeah that really sucks :( Would have been a really interesting community project. Would have loved that.


Online c0d3r9

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #91 on: March 10, 2019, 03:28:01 AM »
I heard from a member in the forum at that time that apparently his house burned down and then the rest of the information was very confusing. And then suddenly it was all over.

Btw. donĀ“t forget Hardwired/Hybrid Lib from Ploppy(RIP). It was a shame that such a enthusiast coder must gone.
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Offline Rick Nasher

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #92 on: March 16, 2019, 08:51:02 PM »
Yeah, really miss Ploppy(Richard), his widow handed over the code to a cousin or so, but I guess he didn't know what to do with all that and felt to invasive to ask her for an update on the matter, for she was left alone with kids etc. Felt really sorry for her.  :(
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Offline Steve Elliott

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #93 on: March 16, 2019, 10:50:38 PM »
RIP Ploppy.  Lovely guy.
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Offline Rick Nasher

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #94 on: March 23, 2019, 10:47:22 AM »
@GaborD
Think it may have been asked before, but I still see some disbelief on the AGK forum(and here), so to satisfy everyone's curiosity for once and for all, can you please state clearly if:

You are willing and/or did offer AGK the source to be released of your demo(or something similar) when they launch the final version of their new AGK Studio product, just as a proof of concept of an high-end, high-skilled example for buyers not to feel cheated upon afterwards?


For it is what is being used in the adds now as an example of what's possible.
Really hope you do/did for otherwise they'll probably loose some customers and it's not in AGK owners interest to see them go bust(for then no more updates/dev work's gonna be done on it).



I won't be able to use any of such stuff on my old beasty(it crawls, can hardly run GameGuru even lol), but I just know there are some high power indie devs out there that would want to see it happening with their own eyes.


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Offline GaborD

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #95 on: March 23, 2019, 05:28:48 PM »
Naysayers will be naysayers. :)
All I did was make some screenshots and vids.
If asked about it on their forums I replied honestly, also helped some people with shader stuff. Until they started calling me liar and insulting me, which was when I stopped posting, have better things to do with my life than being angered by such nonsense.
After my current project is done I want to focus back on the lightmapper/worldbuilder, so we will see how far I get in the next months. I definitely want to make an openworld game with it. Once I have something substantial to show I'll post a showcase over there. Prolly gets me insulted again lol, but whatever.

Offline Qube

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #96 on: March 23, 2019, 05:38:26 PM »
@Rick Nasher, so that'll be a no then :P

Quote
Until they started calling me liar and insulting me, which was when I stopped posting, have better things to do with my life than being angered by such nonsense.
I think the problem here is that visually AGK has never ever had anything even close to the output shown in the video which is a real testament to your skill. The big issue is that a lot of people just won't believe it until they can run the project from AGK themselves like all the tech demo's in Unity / Unreal. As the project isn't going to be released for people to run themselves and then apologise to you once they see it then there will always be those that don't believe it because there's no proof.
Until the next time...

Offline Qube

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #97 on: March 23, 2019, 05:42:50 PM »
Still think you should do a shader set + examples for AGK Tier 1 and sell it. You could make some good money I reckon :)
Until the next time...

Offline GaborD

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #98 on: March 23, 2019, 05:55:32 PM »
My original plan (before Studio was announced) was to make the whole PBR thing an addon for AGK.
The issue is that PBR needs a ton of data generation systems, otherwise almost noone will be able to use it. I have to wait and see what Studio will have stock and build on that.
Just releasing some shaders (or even a whole demo) is pointless if people can't create own stuff without outside programs and in depth PBR knowledge. (how to create HDR lightmaps, probes, etc and get them into AGK for instance)

Offline GaborD

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #99 on: March 23, 2019, 06:32:29 PM »
I think the problem here is that visually AGK has never ever had anything even close to the output shown in the video which is a real testament to your skill. The big issue is that a lot of people just won't believe it until they can run the project from AGK themselves like all the tech demo's in Unity / Unreal. As the project isn't going to be released for people to run themselves and then apologise to you once they see it then there will always be those that don't believe it because there's no proof.

Yeah a big engine like UE/Unity has a huge advantage in that regard, they can release crazy high quality demos/examples with source and media because they have own paid demo teams pumping out the high end stuff. Plus they already have the base engine set up for PBR and high quality post effects anyway.

I have seen some neat stuff done with AGK though, but unfortunately you are right, it is rare.
My guess is that most of the people who focus on higher end 3D moved to UE4, CryEngine or Unity so that's why we don't see much. AGK can do it without breaking a sweat, it does take considerable effort though.
I totally get why someone working on game projects wants to save that effort and rather focus the saved time on content or marketing. If I was working on own indie games for a living I would probably use UE or Unity too, just to lessen the time investment.

Offline Derron

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #100 on: March 23, 2019, 06:32:53 PM »
They should provide an addon-capability to the IDE - so that the PBR stuff can be "inbuilt".

Said that already some weeks ago.


bye
Ron

Offline Rick Nasher

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #101 on: March 23, 2019, 06:44:32 PM »
@Qube:
Guess not.   :(

@GaborD:
Thanks for at least giving a straight answer: It's a nogo then.
[EDIT] But then this thread should actually have been called: "No Choco Cookies for everyone! ", GaborD.   ;)


It's a real shame people are so rude and in disbelief, simply because some people have better skills then they do and just cannot imagine someone pushing things to the max.

But like Qube said: Unity *does* provide a few of those kind of magic examples and this is what lacks with AGK at the moment I think, so hence my question to reassure people and get AGK some potential customers so doesn't end up like Blitz (R.I.P.).  :'(
Even if people are unable to re-create something like that themselves and don't understand any of it, they have to see it's possible through persistence, knowledge and hard work.


That's why I was busy providing some generic 3d framework(s) with and without physics, plus some network stuff for peeps, but seems I'm always just way too caught up in multitude of things:
Had a time I couldn't, now I can(but I'm slow and not as skilled as you, not even into shaders yet hehehe), and currently my dad's very sick, I've just switched jobs - so lots of homework and relationship is high maintenance to put it very, very, very mildly. :(
It's like there's always something new, grrr.. so tired of all the bs in life. >:(

So was hoping at least someone would be able to show it, but hey: what isn't gonna happen isn't gonna happen. Perhaps Preben can do it then, but he's probably too busy with the IDE and GG-Loader stuff.


Lets hope we don't have to drag AGK to the grave before it's fully matured. For I really don't want to switch to Unity.


[EDIT 2]
Quote
My original plan (before Studio was announced) was to make the whole PBR thing an addon for AGK.
The issue is that PBR needs a ton of data generation systems, otherwise almost noone will be able to use it. I have to wait and see what Studio will have stock and build on that.
Just releasing some shaders (or even a whole demo) is pointless if people can't create own stuff without outside programs and in depth PBR knowledge. (how to create HDR lightmaps, probes, etc and get them into AGK for instance)

Perhaps you could write a "How To.." manual to go with it? It could sell pretty well if done ok.
From what I understand AGK S will be backwards compatible, so all commands should basically be the same right, just faster and perhaps few more commands/parameters to take advantage of Vulkan's higher speed and improvements?

Or is that a whole different matter when comes to PBR, HDR, probes, shaders and stuff?

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Offline Qube

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #102 on: March 24, 2019, 01:31:37 AM »
Quote
They should provide an addon-capability to the IDE - so that the PBR stuff can be "inbuilt".
TGC's priority at the moment is the new IDE and then the Vulkan engine. They don't even know themselves what the roadmap is after that. Hopefully they concentrate on fixing bugs and getting all the built in features finished off properly. However I suspect they'll be prioritising new features to get new sales. I just wish they'd take the time out to make the core rock solid but that's not as exciting as swishy new features.

Quote
Lets hope we don't have to drag AGK to the grave before it's fully matured. For I really don't want to switch to Unity.
Unity would need to go through some huge efficiencies before I'd even dream os using it for 2D. I do note that their new lightweight and ECS system creates very efficient stuff but from what I can tell that's aimed at mobile and not desktop yet. I can't find a clear answer if the super efficient core is heading to desktop or not.
Until the next time...

Offline GaborD

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #103 on: March 24, 2019, 04:19:49 AM »
Perhaps you could write a "How To.." manual to go with it? It could sell pretty well if done ok.
From what I understand AGK S will be backwards compatible, so all commands should basically be the same right, just faster and perhaps few more commands/parameters to take advantage of Vulkan's higher speed and improvements?

Or is that a whole different matter when comes to PBR, HDR, probes, shaders and stuff?

Yeah that's how I understand it, the main commands should remain the same.
I am not sure what will exactly happen shader side, generally speaking they are very similar to GLSL, shouldn't be an issue.
They know what things would need to be added to make PBR and similar things easier.
Once we have access to the Vulkan engine I will revisit this. But like I said, a lot would have to be added to make it usable for the general userbase.

Offline GaborD

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Re: Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK
« Reply #104 on: March 24, 2019, 05:10:39 AM »
Unity would need to go through some huge efficiencies before I'd even dream os using it for 2D. I do note that their new lightweight and ECS system creates very efficient stuff but from what I can tell that's aimed at mobile and not desktop yet. I can't find a clear answer if the super efficient core is heading to desktop or not.

Agreed. In my opinion trying to twist an already bloated 3D engine into something that it isn't is the wrong approach.
I would prefer a standalone 2D focussed engine.

Same for specific 3D workflows. Starting with a stripped down lean core like AGK and adding only what the project needs will generally produce much better performance than any jack of all trades solution. Do one thing, but do that well.
I know this is not a viable approach for the big guys who are just fighting over market share percentages and need to reach everyone and their mother and the cat, but that's kinda where small engines can sneak in and shine and steal a small piece of the pie (which to a small team is still big enough).