Choco Cookies for everyone! PBR-HDR test in AGK

[GaborD]

@GaborD: No, you misunderstood me.
Some years ago you wrote to me in a pm that you made the vids for matt to represent nb.
Not any other person.

I only would say that it coul be better if people can see in such a vid the editor behind such a beautiful scene.

If you play a game and look into the intro in most case its no real time rendering.Its created with something else.
It made things clearer if interested user can see the editor behind that creation.
But I did not want to cause a fight here either.So long....

I let the NB gang use screens and vids I made as promo materials, just like I would for any engine I use.
You are correct that the first vid was originally a Unity test. It was used as my internal system demo to show what I can do for the addon. A proof of concept basically. Later I had similar ones that were directly in NB, the basic system worked. A shame I could never finish it, but the addon went in a different direction with realtime lighting (which is fair enough, their choice) and I was out. I actually liked that approach of lightmap generation.
So in that way, you are right, it was a promo for NB and to show what's coming. But I can't remember specifics of which vid I talked about when, it's just too long ago.
My point is I never wanted that first one released. If it got misused, misrepresented or if I wrote you something that was unclear or misleading under those circumstances, I am truly sorry. Not my intention.
In any case, I know there was a lot of madness going on in the late NB days, but the forum crew wasn't involved at that point. We all suffered, I lost hundreds of dollars.
I do get your point and wish the promised things would have been finished. I loved NB and am sad it got tarnished in the end. Was a bad time, and I am still angry for some of the stuff that happened. Really sorry if you got burned too.


A vid with editor will be available soon, you are completely right it would be useful. Several people think it's fake it seems. Not sure why, because this is pretty basic stuff and mainly art driven. 
I can assure you it's not some offline render or such trickery. Don't underestimate the power of AGK. It's a pretty solid engine, similar to NB's raw power. That power is a bit hidden ofcourse, because the stock rendering is pretty oldschool, but hopefully that will be addressed with Studio.

[GaborD]

Some outdoor shots, for fun.
I know it's messy, the scene was basically done overnight so that it can be in the official vid. The lighting is subpar due to the time constraints. Will maybe one day clean it up. Then again.. I'd rather make something new and fun.
Hope it's OK that I post so many shots here in the forums. If it's too annoying just holler.

[Qube]

What happened to the lighting in the outdoor scene?. The outdoor scene looks great, just a little washed out which I assume is because of the lighting?.

There, I've fixed your scene for you

[Steve Elliott]

The development team fell down after Gabor's input.

I'm with Qube on this, without Gabor's major talent the 3D side of AGK is poor.  Fantastic for 2D if you don't mind non OOP, and it's actually quite refreshing to be able to knock-up a 2D prototype very quickly in this way - it makes coding fun!  Which is what we all really want I guess, it certainly re-ignited my love with game coding.

As for 3D, AGK is half finished.  The saving grace is that the renderer has no restrictions (unlike some) so Gabor can use an easy to use language and plug-in his expertise without the system getting in his way, just like NB did.

[GaborD]

Gotta be fair, AGK simply wasn't focussed on high end 3D. They don't have Unity's or Epic's budget, they had to pick their battles.
I think they did the exactly right thing, making the core functionality strong but flexible and focussing on 2D, which is what their core audience uses most.
We will see what they come up with for Studio. I hope something cool. We don't know yet.

In the end, the pizzazz in 3D is just that. It's show.  I mean, I love it, showoffy 3D is right up my alley. 
But it's just a bit of eyecandy sprinkled on top. I am not great at anything, my only skill is figuring out how to leverage an engine's functionality to make stuff look like I want it to look. The heavy lifting is still done in the core engine and in asset creation.

For now, I agree, it's like NB. I actually see AGK ahead of NB. The rendertex system is more straightforward and flexible. To me, AGK being like NB2 is the best thing ever.
We will see how far they evolve it.
Just remember, giving people some shaders doesn't change a thing. You have to go all in for real out of the box PBR and high quality rendering. Scene editor, probe system, premade material and lighting systems, a flexible but powerful post chain, etc.
That's a significant investment.

There, I've fixed your scene for you

But.. but.. it was for a moody RPG!
The scene is OBVIOUSLY right after the player's companion dog Brakkher died to a Plasma Bolt attack (+500 damage against dogs) by a lieutenant spectral minion of Blöaargh.
It clearly shows the desperation and the sadness that the player carries around until 35 minutes later in the story, when he meets Chompwomp the sarcastic rabbit who becomes his new companion and helps him defeat Blöaargh's army with his vicious Double-Tooth-Bite (+%15 crit chance) attacks.
But yes, something is off, it should probably rain in that scene to complete the picture. That's why people misunderstood it. *nods knowingly*
*adjusts pretentious beige designer scarf* *nods knowingly again*



Nah, OK... you win.

[Qube]

But yes, something is off, it should probably rain in that scene to complete the picture. That's why people misunderstood it.

I think that'd finish off the scene pretty well

As a very basic I think AGK should improve the shadows, lighting and also improve 3D file format support as it's not easy to bring in models / textures and animations. It's a bit hit and miss if it'll even work or display properly. It's very picky.

It'd also be silly for them to try and compete with Unity / Unreal but they could offer something similar to Unity's Post Processing Effects. Even have some default common shaders to apply to objects like glow, wireframe, cartoon, water, dissolve, etc. I know they sell a separate DLC shader pack but it's not as simple as it should / could be.

Shaders are not a magic fix but I do think AGK should have a bunch of more common ones included and supported with simple examples for new users to easily understand.

One day I'm still holding out for a native compiler but I can still dream for that one

[GaborD]

@Qube

Haha yep, I typed it as joke, then I was like... Hmmm, actually that would fit really well.

Really good feature/addition list.

Spotlights, HDR and soft shadows are definitely par of the course nowadays, totally agree.

Yeah the 3D formats can be tricky, noticed that too. Hope they get sorted.
I am now sticking to FBX, that seems to work great, keeps the positions/rotation/scale from Blender and allows to store tangent space so that you always have the correct binormals/tangents in custom shaders.
Downside is that I think FBX can't be used for HTML5 targeted exports. I had issues when testing that.

And a definite yes to a basic included shader assortment.
We need to get people to accept shaders as part of the basic package and not as some weird external mysterium.
That would be a good step forward.

Native compiler Hopefully one day.

[GaborD]

Had some free time... added Buffoon Mode!
This is for people with not a lick of common sense. Those people who think "But if 4K is totally taxing on my midrange rig, what if I render at 8K?"
Now I know. 4x supersampling is the thing to do. It's slow as heck (150ish FPS, so basically still more than enough for a non superfast-action game) but looks really crisp (no muddyness from post-AA) and pretty clean in movement, almost no flickering, even on those super thin reflective edges.
Image is full 1080p, enlarge for details. Taken with post antialiasing off. Don't need it with this much supersampling. 
Also supports 2x and 3x supersampling, for the not totally crazy approach.
Still need to clean things up a bit, but it's pretty solid.
Now I want to add 8x supersampling, just for kicks.. I wonder if I can even create 16k wide buffers on my card. One way to find out I guess...




Edit:
Ha!, it seems to work. 8x supersampling.
This is what marketing departments would call "cinematic experience": 40ish FPS. Not too shabby actually for this heavy scene.

[Qube]

Ha!, it seems to work. 8x supersampling.
This is what marketing departments would call "cinematic experience": 40ish FPS. Not too shabby actually for this heavy scene.

But it's sucked the life out of the FPS - Nothing beats a good old stress test from "I'm wonder what if?"

A vid with editor will be available soon, you are completely right it would be useful. Several people think it's fake it seems. Not sure why, because this is pretty basic stuff and mainly art driven.

I've seen the "fake! fake! fake!" posts at other places.

Hmm, not sure that having the editor in the background would quell the rebellion either. I say the only real solution is for TGC to release the source with AGK Studio, just like Unity / Unreal do. I think users are going to have to be able to run it from AGK Studio themselves in order to believe it.

Not sure what the plans are but if your outstanding work is to remain just a video then you'll never win and you'll always have disbelievers. The only way is for AGK Studio users to be able to run the demo themselves from the IDE and then I'd say you'll be owed a lot of personal apologies.

Personally I think you cheated and did it all on an Amiga 1200 \o/ go Amiga

[GaborD]

Nothing beats a good old stress test from "I'm wonder what if?"

We think alike.

I've seen the "fake! fake! fake!" posts at other places.

Hmm, not sure that having the editor in the background would quell the rebellion either. I say the only real solution is for TGC to release the source with AGK Studio, just like Unity / Unreal do. I think users are going to have to be able to run it from AGK Studio themselves in order to believe it.

Not sure what the plans are but if your outstanding work is to remain just a video then you'll never win and you'll always have disbelievers. The only way is for AGK Studio users to be able to run the demo themselves from the IDE and then I'd say you'll be owed a lot of personal apologies.

Personally I think you cheated and did it all on an Amiga 1200 \o/ go Amiga

Yes true, one could easily fake the editor with video editing. Not sure what would be the real thing that creates the 3D part though. 3D Rendering it in Blender or other 3D apps would prolly take quite a few days. There is a several minute long video on Youtube afterall, fullHD at 60FPS. Great fun rendering that noise free. 
What an elaborate hoax... blocking the computer for days with an endless render to troll some random forum users I don't even know on a forum I barely ever post on. Maybe I am just too old to get it, but what would even be the point? None of those guys can tell me that I bet.
I am not even promoting or selling anything at the moment. Didn't ask anyone for money. Didn't even talk to anyone about it. This is so weird hahaha.

Just wanted to have some fun with some screenshots to motivate folks and help a product I really like. 


Shhh about the Amiga! Don't spill my secrets! 

[GaborD]

Managed to find a good compromise that would be game usable.
OK I am happy now. Back to real work lol.

[Steve Elliott]

Fantastic work, and when an engine 'gets out of the way' then those with a 3D talent can excel.

But I have to say the 'Dark BASIC' people have always produced flakey (buggy) software.  Gabor does well because he largely ignores the many flaws, by writing his own routines.  NB (Nuclear BASIC) was far better, because it was very stable.

NB and NF (using C++) were the best systems I've ever used; so gutted when Matthew abandoned them.  It was a fantastic product that ran like lightening on even a slow system.

[Naughty Alien]

Fantastic work, and when an engine 'gets out of the way' then those with a 3D talent can excel.

But I have to say the 'Dark BASIC' people have always produced flakey (buggy) software.  Gabor does well because he largely ignores the many flaws, by writing his own routines.  NB (Nuclear BASIC) was far better, because it was very stable.

NB and NF (using C++) were the best systems I've ever used; so gutted when Matthew abandoned them.  It was a fantastic product that ran like lightening on even a slow system.

+1 for NF..best thing i ever used by now..very stable and very very fast..

[Steve Elliott]

NF was awesome.

[GaborD]

so gutted when Matthew abandoned them.  It was a fantastic product that ran like lightening on even a slow system.

Yep agree. Was such a shame.
The whole "pay once get updates forever" payment model is so silly, it couldn't end well I guess.
An engine needs a longterm payment model in my opinion, you are never finished.