Author Topic: What 3D Engine are people using now?  (Read 2122 times)

Offline Naughty Alien

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2018, 04:43:13 AM »
After a lot of testing and searching over the years, I settled on AGK. It's performant, keeps the oldschool ease of use and Blitz style programming approach while allowing for shenanigans.
Nice nice nice ;D - I think you should create a shader package and sell it for others to use. Your talent is wasted on just creating scenes alone :o

..yes, it is correct what you have said..but physics implemented is very basic and incomplete, this is the only thing stopping me from full commitment, even i do use it actually, yes..
That is a downside of AGK, as much as I love it many of the features are half arsed implemented. Physics, 3D and 2D Spline as examples all just have the the basics followed by a "that'll do" mentality. It can be a nightmare getting a 3D model with textures and animation working with AGK as it's so specific as what it accepts. Also there are no clear instructions of what it does accept. The docs mention FBX but so much of that side is missing, for example it doesn't import FBX's included textures. This is certainly an area that needs some serious work and one that would boost AGK.

Don't get me wrong, I really like AGK but it needs completion of some of the features it offers. It would make it a much more pro package.

..100% agree..for instance, i still cant get lightmapped objects in to AGK..i have had some success, and then, some other 3D models i have lightmapped on same way, just doesnt work, even i did follow exact instructions..this makes me very nervous over such things which should work by default...then to add in to confusion more, only working example of lightmaps supplied by AGK is done by use of OBJ file format which actually cant support 2 UV map channels, while FBX and B3D which does by default, doesnt work at all..so i just dropped it for a while, even i do update it on regular basis...

Offline GaborD

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2018, 06:19:47 AM »
I use FBX for everything AGK related. The tangent space support is a big plus.
Downside is FBX indeed doesn't seem to work with HTML5 exports. Not sure about mobile, never tried, I hate mobile with all my guts.
So yeah, definitely an issue if you want to target other platforms.

One solution I can think of is to bake the second UV set as vertex colors. But I guess OBJ doesn't support that either. OBJ is... well... aaargh.
Could that work as B3D workaround? Could also bake UV2 to a texture if UV1 is unique-unwrapped (basically UV1 being your LM channel, and UV2 the standard one).
Then again, if you have tiled textures on the object the coords will go beyond 0-1, would take quite some effort to pack the values. I guess you could set up material nodes in Blender that do it or such. But it's a hassle for sure.

@Qube Yeah, I have thought about it. This year was horrible, didn't get to anything due to long sickness and the following frantic work catch up.
The other issue is that for correct PBR "a shader" just doesn't do it.
The entire render chain needs to be tailored for it and shovel around HDR data. Plus you need a robust system for lighting and the tons of reflection probes needed all over the place. Lighting/reflection probes (need them to be full range HDR) your user has no way of importing from 3D software or CubeMapGen, other than having an extra conversion tool written in NB or such. Hmmm... that ofcourse makes NB useful again!  ;D
So that's a reason to do all of this I guess. NB will rise again, like Phoenix from the ashes! As a GUI tool to convert HDR probes, HDR skies and HDR lightmaps for AGK.
In any case, have to get the particles done first, haha.

Offline RemiD

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2018, 07:02:47 AM »
[trolling]
i can have rigged skinned animated meshes, and lightmap uvs, in the old, deprecated, Blitz3d  ;)
[/trolling]

Offline Qube

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2018, 07:05:30 AM »
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..100% agree..for instance, i still cant get lightmapped objects in to AGK..i have had some success, and then, some other 3D models i have lightmapped on same way, just doesnt work
I found that too. The solution for me was to bake on UV1 or UV2 depending on which one failed initially. Could never figure out why some models breezed into AGK and others were a complete twat.

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then to add in to confusion more, only working example of lightmaps supplied by AGK is done by use of OBJ file format which actually cant support 2 UV map channels
That is true but ( as mentioned above ) I've found that baking on UV1 or UV2 works, depending on how AGK feels about your model. It's all very hit and miss sometimes which really annoyed me. Model > Bake UV1 > Import into AGK.. Nope!, grey model. Bake UV2 > Import into AGK.. \o/ success. I've had that both ways. I've also imported models into AGK which sends bone information into the next galaxy resulting in very disfigured models. Yup, AGK is pretty temperamental with what it does and does not support on the 3D side. I wish they'd fix it.

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@Qube Yeah, I have thought about it. This year was horrible, didn't get to anything due to long sickness
Sorry to hear that. Hope all is getting better now :)

Perhaps you should approach TGC directly and work something out?. I'm sure AGK would benefit a great deal from enhanced 3D techniques and your knowledge. When I delved into the 3D side of AGK I found it very lacking in file format support and decent feature support. Also, no matter what you did with lighting and shadows it always looked like an early DirectX7 game. I think the whole 3D side of AGK needs a serious overhaul. It has good shader support ( if you can make them ) but it would greatly benefit from a core set of built in shaders that users could use for both the 2D and 3D side of things.

[trolling]
i can have rigged skinned animated meshes, and lightmap uvs, in the old, deprecated, Blitz3d  ;)
[/trolling]
Lol, OK, I'll send you a rigged, animated and skinned 3D model in DAE or FBX format. Let me know how that goes ;D
Until the next time...

Offline Naughty Alien

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2018, 07:08:35 AM »
@Gabor

..with B3D everything works as advertised..heck, you can even take mesh (3DS) and load lightmap data from texture and then apply such thing on to UV2 you can have on the fly..or interchange...this is what i just cant understand with AGK...follow exact instructions in help file, regarding this, and you will get a world of confusion..i did post this question on AGK forums, some time ago..few guys tried to reply just to realize that they also have no clue...

..so, while i like whole thing about AGK in general, this sort of fundamentals which are very confusing and difficult to properly implement, is a no no for me, which is why im looking for something else...i mean, it took me some 10 minutes to get exported same mesh, same lightmap i used with AGK, and run it inside Urho..no fuss no confusion, it works as advertised..now im messing with this Lumberyard engine, suggested by Amon..very nice so far..

Offline Qube

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2018, 07:27:28 AM »
..with B3D everything works as advertised..heck, you can even take mesh (3DS) and load lightmap data from texture and then apply such thing on to UV2 you can have on the fly..or interchange...this is what i just cant understand with AGK...follow exact instructions in help file, regarding this, and you will get a world of confusion..i did post this question on AGK forums, some time ago..few guys tried to reply just to realize that they also have no clue...
Yup, that's pretty much it. I found that AGK randomly decides if it uses UV1 or UV2 for the primary texture.
Until the next time...

Offline Pakz

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2018, 12:37:17 PM »
Mark posted a new update. He is going towards making the longterm shift of taking monkey 2 towards the web. Other targets will keep working but Wasm wil be overhauled(faster compiling like monkeyx)

I was a little bit uncertain on how the future of Monkey 2 would look but it seems to have life in it. So I wil keep using it for 2d/3d.

I did a compile yesterday, of my current Voxel world for the browser. I think I left the lighting on there since in the lower parts the framerate drops quite a bit. But getting a browser 3d game going seems so easy with monkey 2. I forgot to make the internal textures to the power of 2 so it does not work on tablets right now.

(Voxel world browser)
https://cromdesi.home.xs4all.nl/emscripten/monkeymine/Untitled1.html

Offline Madjack

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2018, 01:08:44 PM »
It was the great diaspora.

We're all lost in the wilderness.


******QUEUE - ARRIVAL OF OPTIMUS PRIME MUSIC FROM 1ST TRANSFORMERS MOVIE*******


After many of the blitz languages were retired,


We were scattered across the Interweb. Some made it, others didn't.


In our ever growing fight against the tyranny of those that abandoned programming languages,

We found Qube. And SyntaxBomb. Our new home. To all blitzers, if you are out there.

WE ARE HERE. Waiting.


Offline 3DzForMe

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2018, 03:56:32 PM »
@Madjack and Amon, oh yeah, the great diaspora;)

Thanks to Qube and syntaxbomb, B3D still cuts the mustard. I'm still coding (albeit occasionally, this year has also been a tough one with a protracted illness).

You just can't keep a good coding tool down  :P
happy coding ;)

Offline RemiD

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2018, 05:42:41 PM »
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OK, I'll send you a rigged, animated and skinned 3D model in DAE or FBX format. Let me know how that goes
if the format has a clear documentation of how it is structured, i bet that i could create an importer... (but i don't want to do that, but i can explain how, and you probably knows how too, so i don't need to explain, so why did you say that ? :P)

but maybe not for everything, i suppose that fbx / dae have others properties that b3d hasn't (since it was supposed to work with the old deprecated directx7 ;D) ? (like properties for shaders ?)

for example, in Fragmotion, there are some properties of a material which means nothing for Blitz3d (emissive, specular, shader)

Offline Naughty Alien

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2018, 01:54:41 AM »
Qube does deserve certain recognition for saving a day..thats for sure...thats why i have his pic, on the wall of the heroes i recognize as legit one, right next to the Puki :)

Offline Qube

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2018, 03:45:27 AM »
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so why did you say that ? :P
Lol, I was just re-trolling your trolling quote you made and saying that Blitz3D doesn't support FBX or DAE rigged, textured and animated files directly. Silly post, move on, nothing to see here :P

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for example, in Fragmotion, there are some properties of a material which means nothing for Blitz3d (emissive, specular, shader)
I know, it's a real shame and I'll always dream that one day we'll get a bang up to date Blitz3D 2 with a thriving community and regular updates, just like the good old days of yesteryear.

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Qube does deserve certain recognition for saving a day..thats for sure...thats why i have his pic, on the wall of the heroes i recognize as legit one, right next to the Puki :)
Now that would be freaky, ya banned :P
Until the next time...

Offline GaborD

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2018, 06:08:32 AM »
I know, it's a real shame and I'll always dream that one day we'll get a bang up to date Blitz3D 2 with a thriving community and regular updates, just like the good old days of yesteryear.

Yeah indeed. I have been dreaming of something like that for many years.
Now noone even tries anymore, I guess this is the downside of the big guys gobbling up the entire market by throwing free stuff around for the lower end users. Engines are not worth developing unless you are either one of the big guys who can make back the money on the pro end or already have an established audience from the old days.
So we are stuck with these bloated monsters that run like molasses or with mostly unfinished stuff.
NB was so close to greatness.. argh. C3D would have gotten there... double argh. I am getting too old for this crap. Triple argh.  ;D

Offline c0d3r9

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2018, 07:25:32 AM »
I know, it's a real shame and I'll always dream that one day we'll get a bang up to date Blitz3D 2 with a thriving community and regular updates, just like the good old days of yesteryear.

Yeah indeed. I have been dreaming of something like that for many years.
Now noone even tries anymore, I guess this is the downside of the big guys gobbling up the entire market by throwing free stuff around for the lower end users. Engines are not worth developing unless you are either one of the big guys who can make back the money on the pro end or already have an established audience from the old days.
So we are stuck with these bloated monsters that run like molasses or with mostly unfinished stuff.
NB was so close to greatness.. argh. C3D would have gotten there... double argh. I am getting too old for this crap. Triple argh.  ;D

You are so right.

Offline MikeHart

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Re: What 3D Engine are people using now?
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2018, 08:12:29 AM »
Also what is a huge wall that gets in the way is.. . people expected a cross platform tool these days. For one person that does it only part time, it is almost impossible to support.
I still have a base language sitting on my harddrive, which i never published cause noone would want a tool that would be windows only. When you look at the stats of the market, for indies it isn't worth supporting osx and linux. It is more a labour of love imho.Nevermind that unity destroyed the market with their free license.