October 19, 2018, 11:07:50 AM

Author Topic: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th  (Read 3721 times)

Online Derron

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #75 on: October 02, 2018, 12:25:38 PM »
@ Rainbow Arts
They did Mad TV too (which I tribute in TVTower/TVGigant). Many rights of Rainbow Arts were bought by "Phenomedia" at that time (which also bought "Art Entertainment" - who were famous for Crazy Chicken / Moorhuhn) - and Phenomedia underwent insolvency (balance sheets fraud...). A newly created "phenomedia publishing GmbH" was then buying assets/stuff for Moorhuhn - so maybe even other rights.
... ehm, mixed that up, Phenomedia was formerly known as "Greenwood Entertainment" - who was publisher for Mad TV 2.

So, Rainbow Arts belonged to "Softgold" (which was a subsidiary of "Rushware" - publisher of Monkey Island, Turrican, ...) - Softgold and Rushware were sold to "THQ" (which went down in 2012..). Nordic Games bought the THQ stuff and renamed itself to THQ Nordic.

Means: Biggest chance to hold the rights for the game asset/title is: THQ Nordic.


@ music
Game music ... some parts reminded me to music of ... argh, cannot name it ...something with "fever" in the lyrics - and melody wise only a partially. But sounds cool (thanks Chris - for this and other stuff you did).


@ game
It looks pretty cool - and it is surely a big hurdle to climb when it comes to code something "to behave exactly as the original" but I am absolutely with Adam here - that "ripped" gfx and music would disqualify for entering the competition.

BUT ... why not replace GFX and SFX and enter then? you might even do a more "high res" variant? Would still be a "remake" but one not messing with potentially copyrighted media.


bye
Ron

Offline Morpheus

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #76 on: October 02, 2018, 12:33:18 PM »
looks and plays brilliantly - too brilliantly.

so, you're not actually making a game - you are ripping the game graphics and sound and then repackaging them exactly as was presented in the first place - you're directly cloning it? You may have created the graphics, but you created a clone. so you created nothing. you might just as well of used the original ones. because they are the same...

I think what you have done is great. and I'm sure the coding is great too. But you are really not bringing anything new or different.

I'm also not certain that this would be allowed as nothing here is really 'yours'. You even went so far as to contact the original authors to see about you using their stuff. Surely this is completely against the concept of making your own stuff - you really have made nothing here, apart from totally cloning an already existing game!

Although I am not entering this competition. I do feel that this should not be entered either - it's a clone, a direct copy, even down to the exact sounds and graphics. Whose to say that this isn't just a repackaged hack?

If I was voting this would have to score 0 or be disqualified.

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Rules :

1.. No copyright media or modified pre-built game templates allowed.

But it's brilliant - just not yours!

If you want to get pedantic about copying games, well no one can create a game again. EVERY game is now some sort of copy or clone of something that has been written before. Story lines or plots, you could argue, but it's all just a twist on someone else's creation.

As for graphics, I have probably spent more than half the time playing the original game and screen shooting and then editing them. Pretty much every pixel has been edited by me. I could have spent another 6 month creating new graphics for the game but we only have around six weeks in total. For me it is a no brainer.....

Why have I done a remake, well for this is a great game that fits the competitions maze theme. It's also quite an ambitious project for the time scale. So I am pushing myself to create not only a good game but a faithful reworking of the original.

Offline Morpheus

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #77 on: October 02, 2018, 01:18:38 PM »
BUT ... why not replace GFX and SFX and enter then? you might even do a more "high res" variant? Would still be a "remake" but one not messing with potentially copyrighted media.

Change the graphics then its fine. :o Surely according to 'others' this is still copyrighted game?

Sorry I am not trying to be sarcastic. Just a bit p***ed off that when you have put a lot of work into a project, and all you get is you copied that.... That was my intention.

Offline Holzchopf

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2018, 03:07:33 PM »
Change the graphics then its fine.

Yes exactly. Because on one hand game concepts can't be protected by copyrights (only creative media like art, sound and so on can be) and on the other hand there's a rule that clearly says "No copyright media" and the media you presented here looks SO like the original it's just not save to say it's not a copyright infringement.

I can't speak for the other 'others' but I personally would not go batshit crazy and/or fling faeces when you'd enter with modified graphics or somehow get permission to use the graphics too ;)

Offline iWasAdam

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2018, 03:14:20 PM »
Game mechanics (generally) can't be copyrighted. but even then you have to be careful as with all the Pacman lawsuits from Atari (in general they won).

No one is debating time and effort. and the result looks and sounds great - it's just not yours. it is a carbon copy (to all intents) of the original. No effort made to update things, mix things up, take a different angle, take the concept further with new levels, etc.

The same would stand for a clone of Mario, etc. Infact using Mario or Mario graphics is usually enough for Nintendo to begin action.

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and all you get is you copied that.... That was my intention.
And it's great :)

for anyones interest here is the original:



Qube - your thoughts?

Offline Morpheus

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2018, 03:58:48 PM »
If I was going to sell the game afterwards to make money then I would agree there is a copyright infringement.

Let's look at the 100,000s of Tetris clones; Tetris Corp. don't go around stopping people from making them. They get the lawyers out when people are making money from their game/property. As you say Atari and their greedy lawyers sue anyone trying to make money from their rights.

My game is a clone of Rock'n'Roll. If you were to actually play the 2 they are quite different.

If I was out there to cheat in this competition I could just download the WinUAE source code wrap the original ADF in a new executable.

Why does the game have to be different from the original; surely it is just as good to do a great game justice?

This is a coding competition surely it should be judged on that?

Online Steve Elliott

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2018, 05:02:07 PM »
Quote
I stated some facts - and you agreed.

Not at all, I said

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That looks like a perfect conversion of the original.  :D

When you pushed I said

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Yes It does seem too identical for my taste too

For my taste.  BUT I never jumped all over the guy like you did!!  That's the major difference.

If the game breaks the Competition Rules then that's up to Qube to mention, or for you to politely query the rules; and if not, people are free to vote as they see fit.  You don't seem to like game conversions one bit, that doesn't mean others won't enjoy them.
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Offline Xerra

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2018, 06:20:24 PM »
I think you've been a bit hard on Morpheus here, Adam. I know he's doing nothing new, but it's still an impressive piece of work. I'll leave it to Qube to decide if it's a valid entry or not.

I'm just saying I wouldn't vote against it because it is a direct remake. I know there's issues of copyright but you have to take on board what the guy has said. It's not a game that's being sold and, while it's basically using their graphics, and reproducing a game that they own, he's not making any money out of it so what point would there be in them suing him? Not like the game is still generating sales revenue anyway.

Possibly a moral issue here where some might consider he's stealing someone else's work but who's he actually hurting? The creators of the game - the ones who I'd really care about, not the greedy company that just inherited the IP without any of the work behind it - would probably be flattered that someone remembers their 25+ year old game this way. I certainly would be.
 
While Morpheus also says: "This is a coding competition surely it should be judged on that?"

Agree with this to an extent but I think the games should be judged on how fun they are to play above all else. You can't get away with having placeholder graphics or using poor quality free stuff though, as it's a very small minority of people who will even try a game if they don't like the look of it. None of us give a monkey about what language it's been made in, if it's good.

As for Morpheus, with this game you've recreated the original graphics exactly - which must have been a loot of work - but it's not making your game look individual by doing that, I think. I'm all for retro remakes but I'm never going to try and make something exactly like the original game. I like to work on the concept and do something extra with it.

I must say that i'm really looking forward to trying this out, however, as i've never seen the original game and it looks great fun to actually play. I hope you stick with it in the face of the criticism you've had here.


Offline Qube

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #83 on: October 02, 2018, 07:42:50 PM »
Quote
This is a coding competition surely it should be judged on that?
Yes, these are game coding competitions and as impressive as your clone is....

The rules do state :

Quote
1.. No copyright media or modified pre-built game templates allowed.
You have permission from Chris to use his music and that's fine but you do not have permission to copy the graphics. If you had permission or even bought the graphics from someone who had permission to copy / sell them then that would also be fine.

As it stands I've unfortunately got to say that that entry as it stands would not be allowed on copyright grounds. Even if Rainbow Arts no longer exist I'd be surprised if no other company has the game rights in some capacity. I'm sure none of us want any snotty lawyer threats of suing for thousands of pounds.

Sorry, but there's a reason for rule no. 1.
Until the next time...

Offline Xerra

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2018, 04:59:47 PM »
Ok, just under a week to go. Let's see how many are still beavering away and think they can make the deadline and how many have given up the race. Last time I counted I think there were 10 or so entries that we knew of being submitted for competition 6.

I'm about to start working on some kind of "game completed" screen this evening. My game is mostly done now, bar some sound effects and a lot of tidying up and bug fixes. Spent far too long messing around yesterday with a graphics problem that turned out to be because I was using a sprite greater than 2048 pixels on it's y-axis. Don't ask.

Think I should be able to make this one with a few more hours beavering at it - and I've not had to scrap too many ambitious ideas this time. Apart from a cave editor :)

Offline TomToad

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2018, 03:52:06 PM »
Haven't worked on mine for the past few weeks due to medical issues.  Didn't realize the deadline was so close.  Thought I had 'til the 31st for some reason.
I did manage to get steering and collision working, just need to work on some explosions, sound, AI, and a few other little details so a big push over the next few days might get something I can submit.
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Offline BasicBoy

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2018, 06:32:14 PM »
Who else is feeling the pressure of time as the deadline looms upon us?  :o

Offline Xerra

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #87 on: October 11, 2018, 06:47:08 PM »
I have six milestones left and a game that can be completed with no bugs as it stands. Of the six bits still to do, I think 3 of them are tough and 3 are very easy. So I'm hopeful I can get it all done by Sunday, work allowing. Luckily I have a mostly free weekend to scrape it all together :)

Offline Qube

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #88 on: October 11, 2018, 07:00:53 PM »
Who else is feeling the pressure of time as the deadline looms upon us?  :o
I think I'll be OK this time around, no crazy pressure.... yet :P
Until the next time...

Online Derron

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Re: Code a game competition - Sep 1st to Oct 14th
« Reply #89 on: October 11, 2018, 08:06:30 PM »
Hmm...
yesterday my young son thought it was okay to open the stove/cooker ... and when he stumbled he unwillently sat on the front door - overstretching the hinges. So my evening was full of "finding out how" and "trying to" repair the hinges (first of all I needed to find out that it might be the hinges). Repair was not successful - as hinges seemed ok.
Today I found out: hinges have a spare part in which they are moved "into". To check that out the whole stove needed to get disassembled ... puh, done that and finished right at 16:00 today (had my second son laying on the ground (on a blanket) so reparing a stove - and doing babysitting (5months old now).

Put everything back together ... and somehow the hinge moved the door up 1-2 mm so that it did not close perfectly. I gently pushed it down (hands on front plate - and handle). And then ... baemm, ouch ... what the f... the whole front door broke into thousand pieces - and many peaces poked into my fingers. Lucky it bleeded only a bit here and there (but it aches...). Biggest cry was not by me but my older son (fresh 3 yrs) who was of course also "surprised" by this odd happening.

Ok, so I am sitting here now, some stripes on my hands, already having ordered a new stove (exchanging hinge+whatever else was not correct + new front door = nearly as expensive than bying a new one, so bye bye 2009 stove, welcome 2018 stove). So back to coding now? yeees of course - but tomorrow I already promised to help my brother in his house (with fire in the evening - means alcohol - means less productive evenings). Hope hands do not ache so much then. Saturday we get nephew overnight and during daytime they want to be entertained too. Sunday another birthday is rooming in ...

Long story short effect: have to cut down on features to make something playable. Glad that mouse movement does not ache - and keyboard usage is possible too. Seems I had at least a bit luck ;-)


Now: what're your excuses to cut down features or even not taking part in the compo?