Yikes! This isn't going to end well.

[GaborD]

Interesting to read some comments about Merkel land / Germany here. Nice. And thank you for showing your thoughts so clearly. I can't wait for the day my country stops supporting half of the eu. Bye.

Yeah I read the negative post towards Germany. No need for that what so ever. I don't like it and it needs to stop right now.

Agreed, hate is never the solution to anything.
At this point I would like to see us pull a Brexit, let's call it Grexit or Deuxit, and stop wasting our money and effort on this nonsense if all we get for it is pointless hatred and people yelling "gimme mooooaarrr" anyway.

And I say this as someone who used to be for unification, because that is the only way for humanity to move forward to better times.
But quite frankly, I gave up. Let's be honest, humans don't deserve better times. They will hate and be greedy until we all nuke or poison ourselves to death.

[Steve Elliott]

Such a happy thread, ooo look somebodies posted more Competition Screenshots 

https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,4566.msg17277/topicseen.html#new

[Qube]

Such a happy thread, ooo look somebodies posted more Competition Screenshots 

https://www.syntaxbomb.com/index.php/topic,4566.msg17277/topicseen.html#new

Talk about thread derailment

Thread topic "Yikes! This isn't going to end well." - Such a prophetic title

Let's draw a line under it before it's gets totally out of hand.

Probably best to try and avoid political / religious stuff. We're coders and our logic goes way above and beyond political thinking

[ENAY]

I hate it when people assume that just because you aren't against unfiltered immigration that you are immediately right wing.

By the way, Japan has been ruled by the social democrat party since like, forever. It has been right wing in decades. Japan is very liberal and open as a society. There is rarely on a ban on anything, even religious thing, and being liberal. For example did you know a man can take off Paternity for a whole year paid for by the government? Japan is probably one of the most liberal countries in the world and its government is very left wing.

Just saying, allowing anybody, whether you're left or right leaning. It doesn't matter, I like to think I'm neither, and that it's just plain common sense. Countries succeed and fail from religious indoctrination and what's in people's heads. Each person who enters your country who you think you've "saved", well you've just descrimated against the millions who are still there and need saving.

I mean you can still fake guns and knifes here in 100yen stores that look like the real thing. These are kids toys! Japan hasn't succumb to mass censorship and banning of everything and seems to realise that it's all about culture, stupid people do stupid things, stupid things don't do stupid things.

And of course, not letting in stupid people or unskilled immigrants who will be a drain on the society. Show me anywhere where this isn't a good idea? If you're fleeing from your country, flee to the neighbouring country, or better still, get governments to fix what's wrong with YOUR country. Every person that flees makes it easier for the all bad stuff to continue.

Also due to basic math, Europe is like 15-20% of the world. If everyone mass fleed form their country, well there would literally be no space left. Europe will be engulfed.

Sorry to go off a tangent there. But yeah the EU is doomed, and all this policy does, justs helps the EU to do a communications blackout on all the terrible shit that's going down.

PS Sure you've seen it already, but there was an update on the situation. Which doesn't sound too great...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwR34cT1grw

[Naughty Alien]

@Derron

Im sorry for delay..weekends im spending working on my boat so i have no internet there. Yes, it was related to holocaust questioning, which my entire family voiced out, and my uncle was friend with Ernst Zündel, which was reason more for whole jail thing...of course, media there shows nothing of this in real scale (sending people to jail for this sort of thing)...fact that people like Dr. Germar Rudolf (Max Planck institute degree holder, which disavowed Rudolf's efforts in the field after his research, and of course he got 14 months of imprisonment), did full actual research on topic with chemical decomposition and analysis, on the site, which shows rather different picture of 'holocaust'...but hey..freedom of speech and all that, doesn't exists anymore in Germany...

[Derron]

Denying something which most propably happened might be called "free speech" by someone - but "free speech" is something I do not like to have in all regards. "Free Speech" also means you could say to others that Naughty Alien is a rapist - they just prepend an "imho" to make it an opinion. That would not be nice - or would you let them say that things? What if they go to the TV shows repeating what they just said? What if your neighbours start looking at you?

"Free Speech" is a privilegue which can get misused. Which is they should always follow some simple rules.


@ WW2
There were plenty of Ex-SS, Ex-Nazi-whatever politicians in the German governments after WW2. Some did hide their personal history with the dictatorship/regime, others did not. Some blamed to were "forced" to take part, others "claimed" to were forced to take part ...
Some politicians were promoted to the government nonetheless, just because they needed some certain experience, knowledge of the people, ... whatever benefits they got from it.

Compared to that times things changed for now: now you loose your politics job because you forgot some cite marks in your dissertation / diploma - others totally cheated on their works, loose their job and now work in good positions in private institutions. Things change.

Nonetheless: you cannot tell me - and others, that people did not die in concentration camps, that they did not have to go naked taking a "shower" and so on. You cannot make all these survivors "liers". Sure, some things might not have been happening, some things might even have had happened worse than reported (eg. rape by the red army, or other soldiers in hostile land - who would like to report in all details by how many man exactly they got penetrated in this or that way ?).
You can tell that Hannibal wasn't the man who initially had the plan to conquer the Alps with elephants. Yes you can do as their is only some written stuff about it. But with advance in technology you not only got possibilities to fake but also possibilities to document stuff. People all over the world read about stuff - creating a huge "cloud" for memory. Yes, it might be biased (based on what pictures you show them, what articles you give to read). Nonetheless the "truth" would not just be expressed by a handful of people who in the same time also think the earth is flat or that the earth has a inner hole where people live -> conspiracy fans.

What I accept is: that Germany gets more repressed for certain things than other countries (think of what happened in Russian Gulags, what happened in Vietnam, Korea, ...). This is what is best described as "the winner defines the truth" (with Vietnam and Korea being a bit of an exception). Once you have one looser to punch, the whole gang comes to punch over and over - even ancestors of these loosers get punches then, and ancestors of the ancestors still get compared to them (just read what Greek, Italian ... people write about Merkel - and how fast they call us German "Nazis" if we think of our own country first). Even WW1 made the winners taking way more than what they should (just think of the Elsass). That is another story but it exposes how winner countries exhausted the defeated loosers.
BTW is/was Japan not unguilty there too - with seeing other nations as "underevolved" or "cheap humans".


Our (German) history is not shiny in all periods - but we have had so much shiny moments in the past 1000 years (not talking about the "1000 years" in the sense of the 3rd reich!). Nonetheless only the Nazi-think is what gets fetched from our history to blame us for bad decisions we do now (opening the gates for fleeing people, requesting money saving from Greek, Italian, Portugeeze, ...). Just think of why people tell the world that "Berlin" dictates what the EU has to do? You know that they say "Berlin" because it has this "ohh ohh" history thing attached. I think the German part in the EU government has a big vote: "we" give a big part of the money (the one who pays is the one who says...). Nonetheless I think we try to influence to our benefit way way less than we could. All the small countries have bigger votes than their "input" (monetary, social influence, job opportunitie,...) would equal to.
Most of the EU laws allow smaller, former exhausted countries, to breathe, to grow, to step up - but we (Germany/Austria/Swiss, UK, France, ... the "wealthy" countries) are the ones who cry about loosing jobs, getting lower wages as other offer stuff cheaper. We also blame Amazon for closing book stores (which we did not visit since Amazon was sending us the books so comfortable). As said multiple times: it is way easier to blame and cry about lost stuff instead of thinking about the fact that we (the "wealthy" countries) might have been living over the average for years - on the costs of others (like energy - only transferable, not createable). You cannot become rich without making another one poor. And now somebody is trying to make things more equal. So yes, the "rich" (even if you are the poorest among the riches) will always crie. And the poor ones will cry out of envy (understandable! - I would do too If I cannot buy enough food for my family but see German/UK/... people going shopping).


Sorry for stopping now - think I would write and write and then start repeating myself over and over.


bye
Ron

[Matty]

I've always been impressed with Germany's industrial ability, and engineering ability and ability to produce high quality products - and valuable products.

Whereas China produces mass produced crap for cheap prices, Germany seems to produce high end stuff that allows them to get away with higher wages and so on (as compared to South East Asian apparent cheap (slave?) labour in industry)

Australia could really have done well to follow the Germans in producing good quality products that allow high wages to be maintained....

I could be wrong being on the other side of the world but that's how it looks.

[Kryzon]

I think the western multinationals that order from China are to blame, they probably negotiate for the best price/quality ratio (plus stuff like planned obsolescence etc.).

[Derron]

China isn't that bad: they can produce cheap and fast with an "price dependend quality" (the cheaper the lower the quality). But wages in China increase.

There is only one continent left which could get "exhausted/exploited" labor wise. This is Africa. While work/labor costs in Africa are low the problem there is that they cannot work as fast as China/Asia can. I am not saying that Africans are dumb or so - it's just that they do not even have the "base" to do industrial work. What happened in the early 20th century (maybe earlier) in Asia was not happen that much in Africa. So while there are millions of people "exhaustible/exploitable" by American or European (or Asian ...) companies, they cannot produce the same amount for the money yet.

Sooner or later they won't find cheaper workers for Chinese factories and then people will have to check out Africa ... will become interesting. Exception is if people start to prefer "done here, bought here" approaches (even if that means that you can no longer buy fresh strawberries in snowy christmas times).


Btw the inner-european trade is easier than before with the EU - as it does need less agreements than before. But also needs more laws, laws which count for every country + national laws.
(just to find the conneciton back to the "internet-EU-laws" topic).

Was there a similar discussion when the DCMA was created - and counted for all federal states of the USA? ... Ok forget that question, people in the US even argued against Obamacare ... I mean, we talk about a country which let's injured people stay injured if they cannot finance an insurance.


bye
Ron

[Naughty Alien]

Denying something which most propably happened might be called "free speech" by someone - but "free speech" is something I do not like to have in all regards. "Free Speech" also means you could say to others that Naughty Alien is a rapist - they just prepend an "imho" to make it an opinion. That would not be nice - or would you let them say that things? What if they go to the TV shows repeating what they just said? What if your neighbours start looking at you?

"Free Speech" is a privilegue which can get misused. Which is they should always follow some simple rules.

..im certain it happened at some degree...but mass executions as described, 6 million?? Not at all. Since when expressing of honest doubts, backed up by scientific evidence is an insult which lead to prison? Since when people lose their scientific degrees because they express such doubts?? What science has to do with non scientific point of view of any kind, someone has?? This is nothing about free speech abuse but abuse of power. Why is every discussion about jewish history subject of crime all around world and not any other nation ? Why? Is Poland going to be subject of diplomatic problems with Germany because they express their opinion about holocaust which is not something popular today. My question is, why is act of questioning that specific group of people, a crime worldwide..why? Other people suffered way more, with way more casualties, but hey..its fine to make joke about them or talk whatever you want..but this specific group of people, expelled from 189 countries worldwide in written history, are somehow, 'holly', yet murdering palestinians past 50 years, and thats fine....freedom of speech my ass..just corruption as it was written long time ago, but nobody really read....


"I think there is a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It's a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role and without that transformation, Europe will not survive." Barbara Lerner

..interesting..

[Derron]

There might even be "flat earth scientists", also scientists research that wine is healthy while others say it causes cancer. Being a "scientist" does not guarantee for being sane, doing sane things, doing scientific things (means not to manipulate data so the research is successful - until there is one to validate results...), doing ... think you got it.

You can find doubts for many things, even the collider in Cern is center of some "fake" rumors (cannot be...!). Moon landing? Scientists will say that it was not possible that time in the timeframe ... you will find them if you search for them.
BUT ... the majority of scientist will tell the opposite.

The majority of historians "believes" in what is "common sense" (todays "knowledge"). Same for scientists. Somethings might also seem to be "impossible". You never thought that Anders Breivik achieved to kill 77 people in a "one person mission". You would think this is practically impossible but it happened. You think mass-genocide was not possible? Think of African colonisation.

Mass executions not possible? Why? Bullets are cheap, fires fast made, people/prisoners/... to bury mass graves were also available. We (at least I) cannot imagine that such things can happen without your mind going insane, but it happens. It also happened (in a different "dimension") in Vietnam, Korea.
During war and the created "freedom" (as if the fog of war is covering everything) to do things against common sense, moral and law - such things are possible. The more often you do such "kill 10, kill the next 10 ... next monday we do the same" the more "blind" you become towards your personal moral, doubts, ...
Ask yourself why many people say really shabby / ugly things about other cultures, religions (Sinti Roma, Jews, Arabs, Mexicans, ...). Why do things like the KKK exist?

Mass phenomens and mass psychology lead to things which seem to be impossible for a single human mind. Hundreds of Thousands of people crying "Sieg H..." to Hitler. People fighting as "terrorists, People enjoying living under (foreigner allowed) dictatorships ...
Bad things happen if people grow up under these circumstances as for them it becomes "normal".


... long break ...


... becomes "normal": yes even the internet stuff will be a totally different thing in 10-20 years. People start to grow up with it. They do not know the "freedom" we enjoyed in the late 90s and early 00s. Its like the Wild West - we were young and did what we want. People of the future will enjoy a different "grade" of freedom in the internet. They will think our behaviour in the late 90s was "rude", "uncivilized", "raw" ... they will even discuss about a totally different limitation done by new laws (as they see the currently discussed rules as "common practice").


Edit: wanted to do a bit of research - are you really talking about "Germar Rudolf"?
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germar_Rudolf (a bit more detailled text than the English one)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germar_Rudolf

and is "scientific reports" were already disproved (eg. by Richard J. Green):
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf-Gutachten

I mean: can you _really_ believe someone who says that the gas chambers were only dummies?


bye
Ron

[Qube]

Time to lock this thread. There are laws in the EU ( hey, go figure ) about holocaust denial. I'm all for hearing personal views but we're entering crap land now and so it's time to stop, thanks.