Blitzmax-NG for pentium 3 and below...

Started by Yellownakji, March 25, 2018, 07:44:17

Previous topic - Next topic

Yellownakji

Original text removed.  :-X

This thread is about seeking compile support for Pentium 3 processors.

TomToad

NG stands for Next-Generation, not Neolithic-Grandpa.  Even vanilla BlitzMax stopped supporting 9x windows many years ago.  Windows 95 is worthless, even pawn shops won't take anything older than Vista anymore.

If you really need to support Windows 95 for some reason, use Blitz3D, BlitzPlus, or some other language developed during that time.
------------------------------------------------
8 rabbits equals 1 rabbyte.

Yellownakji

#2
Blitzmax-NG still support 9x ;) - It's the support for Pentium 3 and below that it does not have.


Derron

#3
maybe checkout the .bmk files in blitzmaxng\bin

there are some definitions/params for minGW - maybe you need to add your stuff there to make GCC compile for pentium 3.


@ OpenGL
Bleeding and other issues: open up issues with sample code on github so Brucey could track them. If you only use BRL-modules (no SDL) then there are not many changes done in that regards ... glew update seems to be the most important one.

Nonetheless: check if your vanilla already fails with the more current modules at github.com/maxmods - if so, then you know that this is no NG but a module-update problem.

bye
Ron

Kippykip

Yeah even on an XP pentium 3 I get an invalid instruction error, haven't tested OG BlitzMax yet though (haven't needed to install it in ages).

TomToad

Quote from: Yellownakji on March 26, 2018, 12:39:58
Blitzmax-NG still support 9x ;) - It's the support for Pentium 3 and below that it does not have.

If you read.
No, BlitzMax and BMX-NG do not support Win 9x.  It might run on some 9x machines with newer processors as the Windows API hasn't changed all that much, but it is not officially supported, nor are any incompatibilities ever going to be fixed (at least not officially, you do have the source so you might be able to fix them yourself).
If you read the system requirements for BlitzMax https://web.archive.org/web/20160304025832/http://www.blitzbasic.com you will see that Win9x is not mentioned anywhere.
QuoteWindows Requirements: Windows 2000/XP/Vista/7/8.
NG was actually created to bring BlitzMax into the 64 bit era.  Mac has dropped 32 bit support from OSX, 32 bit Linux programs are hit-and-miss on 64 bit os, and there are already many portals that won't accept Windows games without a 64 bit version. The fact that it runs on some Win9x machines is a testament on how well Brucey is developing NG and is in no way a "disappointment."

There are many development tools created during the Win9x era that still work perfectly, including Blitz3D and BlitzPlus. 
------------------------------------------------
8 rabbits equals 1 rabbyte.

Henri

#6
It might be as simple as providing the correct option for the gcc compiler https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.5.3/gcc/i386-and-x86_002d64-Options.html

What NG basically does is create C-code, and this is compiled using gcc with pre-set options, and surely these options can be changed if desired.


-Henri
- Got 01100011 problems, but the bit ain't 00000001

markcwm

Well I thought I was geeky when it comes to backward compatibility, but Pentium 3 today is pretty old, don't you know everyone has moved on? And there's no point supporting 9x/DOS now, it is history like PowerPCs.

Kippykip

Quote from: Henri on March 26, 2018, 14:52:22
It might be as simple as providing the correct option for the gcc compiler https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.5.3/gcc/i386-and-x86_002d64-Options.html

What NG basically does is create C-code, and this is compiled using gcc with pre-set options, and surely these options can be changed if desired.


-Henri

Quote from: Derron on March 26, 2018, 12:52:49
maybe checkout the .bmk files in blitzmaxng\bin

there are some definitions/params for minGW - maybe you need to add your stuff there to make GCC compile for pentium 3.


@ OpenGL
Bleeding and other issues: open up issues with sample code on github so Brucey could track them. If you only use BRL-modules (no SDL) then there are not many changes done in that regards ... glew update seems to be the most important one.

Nonetheless: check if your vanilla already fails with the more current modules at github.com/maxmods - if so, then you know that this is no NG but a module-update problem.

bye
Ron


Thanks this is legitimately useful information! ;)

Quote from: markcwm on March 26, 2018, 19:36:17
Well I thought I was geeky when it comes to backward compatibility, but Pentium 3 today is pretty old, don't you know everyone has moved on? And there's no point supporting 9x/DOS now, it is history like PowerPCs.

I mean yeah it's old, but the game I'm creating myself is aesthetically like a early 2000s/late 90s 3D shooter. It would be really nice to be able to play it on older machines regardless as that's the target.
I dunno a lot of people collect old machines and see what they can run, MSFN is a big forum dedicated to that. And since BlitzMax is my favourite programming language I'd be great to have that compile for all the machines I own.

Yellownakji

#9
Henri, Thank you very much for the compiler information.  I am definitely going to have a look into it, ASAP.

fielder

OMG this is some sort of ... masochism?

Kippykip

Quote from: Yellownakji on March 27, 2018, 03:13:21
Why do you have to lecture me on how Pentium 3s are old and nobody uses them anymore?    I don't understand why forums are always like this when people ask for a solution.

I asked for assistance, not "you need to move on lectures".  - I'm sorry but these attitudes get old.

--

Henri, Thank you very much for the compiler information.  I am definitely going to have a look into it, ASAP.

--

I care about backwards compatibility and the broader the target audience, the better.  Mark, if you we're truly geeky then you would understand the thrill of getting modern hardware to run on older OS and Processors.   Vice versa for building an application.

I care about backwards compatibility and as a vintage hardware enthusiast, the whole array of x86 is necessary.

NG apps by default WILL work on a 9X machine if your processor is a newer-celeron or a pentium 4 minimum.

A lot of modern games say you need Windows 7 minimum,  but a lot of the newer games still work on my XP with a Pentium D and Geforce8800.  flawlessly.

A versatile application is the best application, regardless of what you think.

Replies like these are the reasons forums are even more archaic than windows n95.    I would probably be better off calling an Indian hotline than signing up for most forums now-a-days.  *cough* stack-overflow *cough*

Yeah a lot of members on the MSFN forum complain about the same thing. They'll ask a question such as "What's the best Graphics Card for Windows 2000" on generic forums and get slammed with "AAAAAAAAA still using Windows 2000?!? upgrade to 10" and such. Negating the entire question. Hence how the whole MSFN forum started.

May as well be like:
OmG still using a Nintendo 64?!??! upgrade to a nintendo sWITCH

Holzchopf

Go visit a LaTeX forum and you'll be happy with what you get here :D

Sorry for OT :P

TomToad

Quote from: Yellownakji on March 27, 2018, 03:13:21
Why do you have to lecture me on how Pentium 3s are old and nobody uses them anymore?    I don't understand why forums are always like this when people ask for a solution.
I don't understand how someone can come into a forum sporting an attitude and act so surprised when he gets negative response
Quote
I asked for assistance, not "you need to move on lectures".  - I'm sorry but these attitudes get old.
Nowhere in the OP is there a request for assistance.  Only a bunch of rants telling us how "pissed off" and "upset" you are.  The only request I see is for discussion. Some feel you should move on.  It is not a discussion if we can only talk about what you agree with.

Quote
I care about backwards compatibility and the broader the target audience, the better.  Mark, if you we're truly geeky then you would understand the thrill of getting modern hardware to run on older OS and Processors.   Vice versa for building an application.
I understand that "thrill."  Managed once to get a Windows 8+ program to work on an old XP machine.  However, if I couldn't have gotten it to work, I would not have gone onto the forums discussing how disappointed I am at the programmer for not supporting my old computer.
Quote
I care about backwards compatibility and as a vintage hardware enthusiast, the whole array of x86 is necessary.
That's great.  Many people like old systems.  People like restoring vintage cars, or vintage furniture, or radios, etc... But don't expect the industry to hold on to the same ideals.  Imagine if Ford made all its engines work in model Ts.  Might sound great to the enthusiast, but new innovation would have to be sacrificed for the sake of backward compatibility. There are those that do try and make newer engines work in older cars, but they realize that there will have to be modifications, and that they might not get it to work at all.  No one expects Ford to do it for them.
Quote
NG apps by default WILL work on a 9X machine if your processor is a newer-celeron or a pentium 4 minimum.
Just because NG happens to work on some 9x systems doesn't mean we should expect it to run on all 9x systems.  Once again, NG does not support 9x machines.  The fact it works on some is a bonus.
Quote
A lot of modern games say you need Windows 7 minimum,  but a lot of the newer games still work on my XP with a Pentium D and Geforce8800.  flawlessly.
True, but it is not supported.  If the game fails to work, don't expect the developer to put in effort or time should there be problems.  Seriously, which is more likely.  "I'm running XYZ on XP and everything works fine except the ion cannon won't fire." A. "Wow, someone is playing this on XP?  Let me dig out the source and remove all the cool extra code just so it can run on your XP machine." or B. "Sorry, you need Windows 7 or higher to run my game."
Quote
A versatile application is the best application, regardless of what you think.
True, but it takes time and effort to make a program versatile.  Most likely that effort will be spent making the program more compatible with HTML5 or mobile or XBox or something rather than an old, outdated OS.
Quote
Replies like these are the reasons forums are even more archaic than windows n95.    I would probably be better off calling an Indian hotline than signing up for most forums now-a-days.  *cough* stack-overflow *cough*
It is statements like this that makes people not want to help you.  Forums, especially this one, can offer a huge amount of help if you approach it the right way.  Something along the lines of "Hey Brucey, how difficult would it be to add Pentium 3 support to NG?" or "Hey, is there a hack or something I can use to get NG to work with Pentium 3?"  would get better results than, "I am pissed off and quite upset because NG won't work with my old archaic machine out of the box!"
------------------------------------------------
8 rabbits equals 1 rabbyte.

markcwm

QuoteWhy do you have to lecture me on how Pentium 3s are old and nobody uses them anymore?    I don't understand why forums are always like this when people ask for a solution.

I asked for assistance, not "you need to move on lectures".  - I'm sorry but these attitudes get old.

Well I see you have a bad attitude and don't like being told anything!

QuoteI care about backwards compatibility and the broader the target audience, the better.  Mark, if you we're truly geeky then you would understand the thrill of getting modern hardware to run on older OS and Processors.   Vice versa for building an application.

I obviously am not geeky enough then because I don't understand the point of trying to make software run on something that should be in a museum. Most of them are just too slow to be any use now.

QuoteReplies like these are the reasons forums are even more archaic than windows n95.    I would probably be better off calling an Indian hotline than signing up for most forums now-a-days.  *cough* stack-overflow *cough*

If you had politely asked for Pentium 3 support for NG then I wouldn't have "lectured" you.