EULA

[TomToad]

Bought AGK a little over a week ago.  Got around to reading the EULA a few days ago.  There were a few confusing points in the EULA that has me a bit concerned.  I wrote on The Game Creators forum, but haven't received a reply in 2 days.  Here is a copy of the post I made there.  Hopefully, someone here can answer my questions.
--------------------------------------

Posted: 14th Jan 2018 17:46 Link
Bought AppGameKit about a week ago. Just recently got around to reading the EULA in detail. A few details are very confusing and need to be clarified.

"1.1 You are permitted on a non exclusive basis to:
(a) load the Software into and use it on a single computer which is under your control;
(b) transfer the Software from one computer to another provided it is used on only one computer at any one time;
(c) use the Software on a computer network provided you have purchased such number of copies of the Software equal to the maximum number of copies of the Software in use on that network at any one time;"

Parts a and c make it sound as though you can only have the compiler on one computer at a time. What does someone who develops on more than one do, such as a Mac and Windows machine? Do they need to buy 2 license? Part b could be interpreted as though you can have two copies installed as long as only 1 is in use at a time, but that would contradict a and c leaving the impression that you must uninstall from one computer before installing on the other, or buy more than one license.

Most software aimed at independent developers are usually licensed per developer instead of per computer, allowing the developer to install onto as many computers as reasonably needed as long as they are only used by those who are licensed to do so. If this was the intent, then the EULA needs to be reworded to be clearer.

"(d) create, in strict accordance with the associated documentation, unlimited Apps (as defined below), and copy and issue copies of these Apps to the public in object code format only, and subject always to the provisions of section 4 below."

This sounds as though one cannot distribute the source code to their app. So I can't include it for others to learn from? What about creating a tutorial, or sharing code snippets for others to use?

"3. Ownership

You own only the media on which the Software is recorded. You may retain that media on termination of this Agreement provided the Software has been erased. The Owner shall at all times retain ownership of the Software and all subsequent copies of the same regardless of form. Accordingly, the owner continues to own copyright in the Software including any part of the Software (whether modified or not) which is comprised within an object code 'App'. This Agreement applies to the grant of the licence contained in this Agreement only and not to the contract of sale of the media. "

This, by far, is the most confusing part of the EULA. It could be interpreted as though TGC automatically takes ownership of any app that I create with AGK. Usually, ownership of any app or program created with a compiler is owned as a whole by the developer, with the exception of the individual parts provided by the development package, such as the runtime and libraries. This part needs to be clarified as to how much ownership is retained by the developer.

[Derron]

Re 1) a,b,c
The important word is use. So you are allowed to use it X times simultaneously. X corresponds to the amount of licences. In short: you are allowed to have it installed on multiple computers but are not allowed to hit "compile" on both computers at the same time.




Imagine it being a commercial 3D render software - if it was allowed on a "per developer/user" base, then you might start a kind of "network render" (20 of your computers running the software, rendering frames). This would not be covered by this licence and you would need 20 licences to be allowed to do so.


Re 1) d
Do not read it as "you are only permitted to" but rather as an "are permitted to provide binaries without the need to provide the source too".


Re 3)
Hmm, it is indeed a bit confusing. Maybe they are talking about the "medium" (like a CD/DVD, USB-Stick) which was the original form of the software supply.

Interestingly this came up when looking for a part of your EULA:
http://www.rotork.com/en/support/index/licenceagreement
Looks very similar, as if someone did a "copy + paste + adjust" thingy.

But as said, I assume "3)" is describing the can keep the media file (the setup-application or so) even if you terminate the agreement (or "pause" it). Also you keep your ownership of the things you create with "AGK" (source, binaries ...) even once you terminated the agreement.

In Short: I would interprete "3)" as saying: you are staying owner (read: ownership) of your software even if you no longer accept the EULA and uninstalled AGK. Further sales of the media (eg. the AGK-Setup-DVD) is something different (read last cited phrase of 3) ).


bye
Ron

[Rick Nasher]

Not surprised they do not respond - Company employees usually do not have the skill to answer legal questions and are not allowed too in order to avoid complications.

They probably hired a corporate lawyer to look into it once and that's it. If some issue arises they'll need to pay again for a consult, which I can imagine will rather avoid.

[TomToad]

@Rick Nasher: I'd be surprised if they even consulted a lawyer.  They probably just copied an existing EULA and just made changes to suit their own software.

@Derron:  Media in part 3 most likely refers to the distribution medium.  The part I was most confused about was

Accordingly, the owner continues to own copyright in the Software including any part of the Software (whether modified or not) which is comprised within an object code 'App'.

In the EULA, owner is defined as The Game Creators, and the Software is referring to the software the EULA applies to, or AGK2.  If I were to replace the terms above, I would get:

Accordingly, The Game Creators continues to own copyright in AGK2 including any part of AGK2 (whether modified or not) which is comprised within an object code 'App'.

Worded this way makes things a bit clearer.  It would seem it is only referring to the runtime and libraries provided with AGK and not the app as a whole.

Re 1) d: Do not read it as "you are only permitted to"

Why would I not read it as "you are only permitted to" when it states

and copy and issue copies of these Apps to the public in object code format only

explicitly?

As for part (c), after reading it a few times, I believe it is there to prevent someone from installing AGK on a server and having several developers compile from that one copy.  Technically, you would still comply with the single computer rule while having access from multiple computers.

As for (a) and (b), I still read it as only being allowed to have it installed on one computer at a time.  It is a bit unclear to to the ambiguity of the language.  If I were to say, "Only the canned items and the boxed items contain vegetables," you would think that vegetables would only be found in either the canned items or the boxed items, but not in the bagged items.  You would not think that vegetables are only in containers that are both boxes and cans at the same time.  So saying that you can have AGK installed on multiple computers, but can have it installed and used at the same time on only one computer is like saying the vegetables are in both a can and a box at the same time. In the vegetable example, it is obvious what is meant by context; in the EULA, there isn't much context to go on.

I am sure the intent is to allow you to install on as many computers as you reasonably need,  but if there is any legal action taken, ultimately the "intent" will be determined by a judge and often they will fall onto the more strict interpretation.

Ultimately, I don't think The Game Creators really care how you use the software,  the EULA is more likely a CYA move against abuse rather than an attempt at restricting legitimate use.  But in this day and age when legal action can be taken against you for just about any reason, the EULA should be made more clear as to what rights are given to you and what rights TGC holds for themselves.

Somewhat related, I once took a class on contract law.  The course was taught by a retired lawyer who specialized in business law.  He showed two examples of wills that his firmed used, names were changed, but otherwise the wills were exactly as written.  The first was written up by some lawyer and was full of legal jargon.  The family spent over a year fighting over the fine details of the will, spending a ton of money doing so.  Eventually they had come to a settlement which most likely was not in the intent of the deceased.  Not much could be done, the wording was so confusing and vague that the intent couldn't be interpreted, even by another lawyer.
The second will was written by the guy before he died and was notarized instead of being written by a lawyer.  It was full of spelling mistakes and bad grammar.  Processing the will only took a few hours, because everything was clear and understandable.
The professor's firm used the two wills as examples for their idea that complex legalese should be avoided and clarity should be sought after.

[Rick Nasher]

@TomToad

Ultimately, I don't think The Game Creators really care how you use the software,  the EULA is more likely a CYA move against abuse rather than an attempt at restricting legitimate use.[/size]

You are probably right

[Rick Nasher]

Ok and that should teach me not to try post from Android..

[Derron]

Just select everything and click on that "A->A" Button (next to the raw-html-button). Will remove that formatting.

I have this on nearly every second post - using backspace lowers font size here (sometimes), using "del" lowers fontsize of the upcoming line ... I blame the wysiwyg editor (in connection with Chrome+OS) for this.

bye
Ron

[Rick Nasher]

Ah, that explains a lot. First time I encountered it.