Crypto Currencies?

[Derron]

so those who are more intelligent / smart /  strong / agile / fast / endurant / motivated / ingenious / courageous / etc..., could earn more, but with a limit...

There is a simple answer and question in the same moment: why should they if there is a limit?

If you cannot reach for the stars, then you most probably won't even try.


Discussing this will sooner or later lead into a politics and "political system" discussion (as the "greed" is based on the political system and history). It is
a) derailing this thread
b) something I think Qube was not in favor to see (if I remember correctly).

So if you want to discuss about "crypto currencies vs old school invests" (or so) then open a new thread and we could write there - with the option to cross the borders to political discussions or "system" discussions.


bye
Ron

[RemiD]

of course, we can stick to the technical aspects of crypto currencies and buying/selling, but the initial goal of bitcoin was also political in a way (more safety, more transparency, more freedom, decentralized). and the way the coins are distributed between the creators and the first buyers are problematic if the goal is to have a more fair money system...

can you criticize owners of big international banks if you do the same with cryptos ?

recently i learned about how coins were duplicated for bcc / bcg / btc, and it is insane ! (money from nothing indeed)

[Derron]

If you are into trading (here and there) than this coin forges are good chances - as you also gain something out of nothing. Same for "air drops".

For this it is important to remember: have your coins on a trading platform often means you will not receive these free coins - some platforms allow claiming them, but others don't. Yet I think this "ICO"-season was 2018 and for now we are still consolidating.


bye
Ron

[Kryzon]

It depends on the kind of sale you do.
Market, Limit, Stopp-Limit, ...

Some act this way: 
(...)

Thank you for all the information Derron, it's the first time I'm reading about this. Where did you learn all this?

Someone said to me that cryptocurrencies (BTC especially) are best used for what they are, currencies, money for you to buy things with. 
Is it worth it to play the speculation game, trying to make money from them?

[Derron]

Learning by doing / seeing stuff I do not know what they mean.


Speculation is good...as long as you are assuming the right future development ;-).
Long term holding/invest the same.


Bye
Ron

[fairgood]

The ledger Nano is a good secure hardware wallet for crypto
https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPpZxOjvU10
You just need to check it supports the coin you want to store
Nano X is a little more expensive but has more storage

All in for #VET VeChain here myself

[Matty]

High risk investment = good odds you will lose your investment.

[Derron]

If you lost your investment, then someone else won it. Who says you cannot be the one who wins the investment of someone else?


bye
Ron

[RemiD]

after some research, i bet for bitcoin and bitcoin cash, my reasoning is this :
these cryptos are far from ideal and fair, but bitcoin is the most popular name in the normal (not IT / not finance ) world, and like on others topics, most people repeat and follow without caring of knowing the truth / details.

so i think, they have the most potential of becoming known and invested in.

some others crypto moneys can be better / more useful, but if they never become popular, what the point ?

[RemiD]

after some more research and experiments :

->can you backup your "wallet"/account offline, regularly, but still have it on an exchange platform (i use coinbase), to buy/sell ?
i suppose that a backup must be done after each transaction to be considered as valid ?

no need to backup the transactions of a wallet, the ledger (comptability, debit / credit, ins / outs, entrys / exits) of a crypto is decentralized...

you have to understand the difference between an exchange account (on an exchange platform) and a wallet or address :

an exchange account allows you to trade fiat currencies (EUR, USD, GBP, CHF) and crypto currencies (BTC, BCH, ...)

a wallet is a software/app which allows to receive/send cryptos securely (associated to an address)

an address is where you receive/send the cryptos (see bitaddress.org to generate one)

to receive money on your address you don't need any privatekey, but to send money from your address you need a privatekey. you can share your address to anyone, but you must keep your privatekey secret.

->how do you manage to get back the money (in USD/EUR) without being taxed ? (maybe keep it on a paypal account ? or buy a "temporary money card" ? or open an online bank account which is tolerant regarding cryptos transfers ?)

several ways :
->convert the crypto currency (BTC, BCH) to fiat currency (EUR, USD, GBP, CHF) and keep it on the exchange account.
now apparently you can pay with a visa card with some exchange accounts (coinbase, wirex)
->convert the crypto currency (BTC, BCH) to fiat currency (EUR, USD, GBP, CHF) and keep it on your paypal account.
->pay with the crypto currency (BTC, BCH) in webshops/shops that support it.

great 

[RemiD]

hi ! 

for those who care about that : just to say that after 6 months of research, experimenting, and following the news in this industry, i am still for BTC and BCH, but i think that BTC will have problems in the future because of high transaction fees and slow transactions, so this means that BCH has more potential (if devs don't screw up for unimportant things).
( i bet for BTC a 4x potential, and for BCH a 145x potential, but don't listen to me, i am a bit insane ahah )

anyway, whatever you choose to do, good luck !

[Matty]

See if I've got this right.
Bitcoins:

A computer burns through electricity to power its cpu sufficiently to cause a number in a database to increment - and this is worth real dollars and cents?

Sounds like whoever assigns value to this lives in lala land.

[Derron]

the value of something is based on what others pay for it.

Crypto coins do not just burn electricity ... they allow the "blockchain" - a "chain of trust". To keep it alive computer must process stuff. They must find numbers etc.
So without "burned energy" it wont work. And the faster you want stuff, the more must be done. So depending on how "fast" you want something, the more expensive it will become.
And as it becomes harder and harder to compute these numbers ... the "price" for numbers will raise.
But ... if nobody cared for it - and nobody used it, the algorithms would become easier and numbers easier to calculate - less energy consumed (but also less "numbers generated").


Yet it stays: it is worth what others are willed to pay for it. Offer - Demand.


Why are paintings worth millions of dollars? Were they painted with fairy diamond dust and gold sprinkles?
People pay for something they want to have - they also pay for stuff when they estimate a raise of the value in the future.
They also pay for stuff (especially art - and cryptos) to avoid their money loosing value (money inflation). So this is why cryptos are pretty popular in poor countries (for the ones having the money there...).
Helps also to circumvent embargos and other stuff ... or to help wash your mafia money ... or if you are sanctioned by another country (eg Russian politicians vs US etc).

There are legal and illegal reasons for crypto coins (for now) being a nice chance to do something with your money.

And this defines a use case for these coins ... and therefore a reason to burn energy.


Ideally people would use an less energy hungry approach ... but this makes it less interesting for the "mining companies" as everybody could do it and then these "coins" are almost free to create, people would have calculated "all" coins right now ... this leads eg to the availability of all potential coins (fitting in the mathematical structure) right on start (or a bit later). Coins would be distributed by a few people/companies ...  dunno if this would work well too (just check out "Ripple / XRP").


I would happily enjoy a less hungry approach too ... only so much energy, that excess energy (think of wind energy in China ... much was unused, so the energy of Chinese crypto miners was essentially also eating this "excess" - but when writing about the energy burned by cryptos, you do not subtract this "free" energy).
Maybe times will change somewhen and people try to run a new horse - an less energy hungry crypto coin / block chain idea.

bye
Ron

[Matty]

Sorry...you missed my point:

Someone is assigning real monetary value to a few bits and bytes in a database that are not tied to anything tangible in the real world?

Using your art analogy why not then simply pay artists for imagining artworks without painting anything-the arywork is as real and tangible as a bitcoin then...

[Derron]

Stock prices are also not really bound to tangible assets ... it depends on "future estimations".


bye
Ron