Last night I was thinking about the times when Windows was the only platform I was targeting with my stuff.
One platform, one set of problems to deal with. Coding tools that focused on that platform only and they were strong in what they did.
Then of course like any one else... I got infected with the mobile trend. IOS, Android. Then getting an Imac and wanted OSX support.
Tools that were awesome back then and served me well for years were all of a sudden not good enough anymore. It needed to be a cross platform tool. Yet, till this day, I yet have to find one, that works equally on all platforms and where you don't have to work around quirks. Instead of designing and creating your app/game, you fight with platform problems, you fight with the tool. Be it by setting up the development enviroment, being it that features don't work similar. You fight all this for what again? I really wonder.
What do you love and hate about going cross platform?
I love competition which leads to better products and enhanced features all the times.
I hate running all the time after new technologies and learning new things especially when it breaks old things you know and comfortable with :(
Quote from: sphinx on September 13, 2017, 09:31:02
I love competition which leads to better products and enhanced features all the times.
I hate running all the time after new technologies and learning new things especially when it breaks old things you know and comfortable with :(
Competition, yes. Absolutely. But serving cross platform has nothing to do with competition I think. It is just a matter of which audience do you target.
And I agree about the technology part. That is why I lvoe tools that take care of that if possible.
QuoteBut serving cross platform has nothing to do with competition I think. It is just a matter of which audience do you target.
I was talking about the big fishes not us (the developers), I got it the other way around :D
..only cross platform im looking for is desktops (win/osx/pingu)..mobiles i hated since day 1 and i still dos, with great passion..consoles are at same group with desktops, and well worth work on..
Well, I use Linux, so it's kind of necessary for me. ;D
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only cross platform im looking for is desktops
Yeah, is it really worth chasing the Android/ios Train? Because everybody wants free software in that market. And it's saturated with copy-cat clones of popular games.
Plus there's a certain compromise/complication in covering very different systems.
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Well, I use Linux, so it's kind of necessary for me. ;D
The only versions of Linux I have are on Raspberry pi and a notebook with a sub-standard processor - what specs Rooster?
Quote from: Steve Elliott on September 13, 2017, 16:28:47
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Well, I use Linux, so it's kind of necessary for me. ;D
The only version of Linux I have is on Raspberry pi, what specs Rooster?
I have Ubuntu 14.04 installed.
6 core 3.9 GHz cpu
16 GB ram
500 GB hard drive
MSI GeForce GT 640 Graphics card
So what was your process on desktop?
I'm guessing your system came with Windows and you formatted and installed Linux instead?
I did install Linux Mint on a notebook, but that wasn't an Intel i5/i7 system - so non standard, but worked.
No, I built the computer myself. Windows was never installed.
Cool. Like I said I have installed variations of Linux before - just not to the PC Spec I currently have...I'd like to have a full Linux Box.
The bigger the audience, the bigger the market.
I don't care if Android users want it for free, I would 'just' collect from the commercials included in it.
Also: fun for quick LAN party's that are not platform bound.
..mobile audience may be a bigger because everyone has a phone, even banana joe who just open his eyes in to this world...that also means that, just because so many devices are out there, its not necessary to conclude that this is user base...numbers proving that actually, user base is and still remain, desktop based or in short, people who PAY for games..this is audience im after..mobile gaming is nothing but people who never purchased games anyway and free to play is way to go for them..which is fine, except, you are exposed to all sort of copycats exists out there, fraud download counter and other unethical practices, which turning your genuine work in to a pile of dust...if i ever port something to mobile, that will be under circumstances that game is sold before already on desktops well, and only then maybe hit mobiles and NOT as a free game..they have to pay for game..im sick and tired of this 'free this free that' mantra...i dont get a drop of fuel for free when i go to gas station..why would i let my game be free?? wtf..
Good question Mike. I agree with Naughty Alien.
I prefer Linux then Mac then Windows so cross-platform is important to me. I never liked mobile either mainly because the screens are too small, with 3D there's not much you can do at that size, the only thing I'm considering past desk/laptop is Android TV boxes, iPad and Tablet are a possible target but not really worth the effort if the market is so poor, Web/Html5 is just way too slow. Screen size is why I never jumped on the MonkeyX boat and am still using Blitzmax NG, I don't like hopping around languages since to learn one well takes several months. I want any game I make to run on as old hardware as possible, about 10 years old, there's no point aiming for latest tech if you can't make use of it. I think backwards compatibility is cool.
..what i really think about mobile games and developing for mobile audience, this guy nailed right on the spot..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE)
Some words from my side. I made 9 games so far, all for Android and iOS so cross platform is a big thing for me. I never did a desktop game even though I will do at some point.
The mobile markets are very, very saturated but I think that's true for PC as well, but the audience is indeed different. Mobile gamers tend to be those kind of people who look for time killers while waiting for the bus and that stuff, so games they can play for 5 minutes.
Interestingly my most successful game was my 3d submarine simulator for mobiles. It's pretty expensive ($7.99) and just an upfront paid game with no ads and no in app buy stuff. This game alone made quite a nice 5 figures sum so far starting in December 2016.
So I think it doesn't matter what platform you go for, you just need a good working niche. Making the next match-3 for mobiles would be wasted time, I mean you can do it when you just do it because you like creating one but don't do it because you expect to earn some money. You will be lucky if you get a few hundred downloads at all even for a free game!
Personally I think the casual market is more than saturated. When you don't have any marketing budget, forget it.
For desktop cross platform is vital for me, BlitzMax does it so well for Windows and MacOSX.
I think I would like to be (more) cross platform because I'm quite jealous of people who can make a game once, and put it on everything from Android to Nintendo Switch from the same code base. Right now I can make things for Windows on BlitzMax, and one of the common comments you get is "Is there an Android version?" No, I don't think people pay on Android/iOS, except for niche titles like a sub simulator, but IAP makes a killing (in the millions) for some games and smaller games can do very well with ads. Flappy Bird is a good example of a very simple, not very good game that nevertheless made bajillions from the ads.
I think it's also more cost effective as far as time cost. I can't very well call this a living if it takes me 4 years to make a product I can sell on one platform (Steam). I could make a visual novel or something in Unity or whatever and spit it out onto 12 different platforms and (probably) make a tidy living.
BlitzMax is still the double aces in the hand though when it comes to the desktop platform...except for the things I posted about in another post...which no one answered...lol I'm having a really hard time finding a good cross platform solution. My main targets, at least at first, would be PC, Android, and HTML5. I have game ideas that target specific platforms and would be best on those platforms, and also some ideas that would work great on all three. It would be nice to finally solve this problem...for a few years at least. I thought I was finally getting good at BlitzMax...and now it's time to find something else...smh :-\
Ian, I think AGK sounds like a good alternative. You can check out Monkey 2 as well (no joke). It's in a pretty good shape and quite a modern language.
But don't overestimate mobile markets. No matter if full paid, ads or iap, you still need a niche. It's not a money making machine. The times where you made thousands of bucks with a simple fart app are over. I started 2012 with mobile games and the markets already were saturated at that time but nowadays... oh boy... it's almost impossible to get even some downloads with a completely free game!
I have AGK and I opened it up an had a look. I'm not sure where to start with it. It seems like it takes a bit more setting up? BlitzMax worked right out of the box...one thing I really liked about it. Is AGK still $79 per game shipped or something? I had heard that somewhere.
Monkey2 is looking a bit better with the latest release...the controller is working, for instance, heheh. I still don't think it's ready to go right now, which it really has to be for me to switch to anything. It looks like at least some of it is built on SDL? I'm thinking about maybe just using SDL or something like Haxe...
Yeah, if I do anything on mobile, it will be something different or something very, very simple. The advantage there is something like Flappy Bird I can make in a weekend. So I wouldn't be spending as much time on it. I know a few people who have done very well with ads. So I think I know some ad supported stuff that would work and some IAP stuff that would work. But who knows? I don't have a huge expectation on mobile. If I made $5 a day with an ad game I would consider that success, heheh
Quote from: IanMartin on September 14, 2017, 18:44:47
BlitzMax is still the double aces in the hand though when it comes to the desktop platform...except for the things I posted about in another post...which no one answered...lol I'm having a really hard time finding a good cross platform solution. My main targets, at least at first, would be PC, Android, and HTML5. I have game ideas that target specific platforms and would be best on those platforms, and also some ideas that would work great on all three. It would be nice to finally solve this problem...for a few years at least. I thought I was finally getting good at BlitzMax...and now it's time to find something else...smh :-\
You can also try Monkey-X/Cerberus-X for those platforms with 2D. I made the transition from BlitzMax, but still do some BMX code from time to time.
Quote from: Xaron on September 14, 2017, 19:58:46
You can check out Monkey 2 as well (no joke). It's in a pretty good shape and quite a modern language.
Yes, I think Monkey2 seems to be shaping up, though Mojo3D is still broken on android.
I guess it depends on what you need and so better try them all and see if it works well for your game.
Monkey X was a step back for me on Desktop. No Incbin and write your own collision were deal breakers. Especially the collision. I had scale and rotate pixel perfect collision with BlitzMax and with Monkey people are saying to use boxes or circles?!
It seems like Monkey was nerfed on Desktop so it would also work on Flash, Html, and Android instead of just using compiler switches like
?Windows - do mouse & joystick
?Android - multitouch
?Flash - complain Flash is dead yet find all over web
It seemed like it tried to be too generic and didn't do as well as BlitzMax did on Desktop. *shrugs*
I want BlitzMax 5 Procedural Edition same code runs everywhere even Nintendo Switch and Leapfrog Ultra Zero OOP Edition Perfect Mode. I think I should go lie down, I think I have a migraine. heh
Quote from: IanMartin on September 15, 2017, 01:51:09
It seemed like it tried to be too generic and didn't do as well as BlitzMax did on Desktop. *shrugs*
For me this became problematic at first, but as I got to play around with the integration stuff, it is actually one of the better features that makes it easy to add new features which is obviously platform specific.
With Blitzmax, the cross platform nature only covers desktops so you're just basically dealing mostly C/C++ stuff with those brl or custom mods internally.
interesting thread, made me register to reply :)
I thought I had to go cross platform to get more sales for every program I write. The most valuable cross-platforms are, I think, HTML5 & Flash. If I'm an example, then the average punter is lazier today than 10 years ago. Its easiest to click and play in your browser rather than download , install and play.
But what's the reality wrt sales? This thread suggests cross-platform isn't a big improvement. If so I don't have to adhere to languages with the broadest cross-platform. This is a big factor for me, because I'm adverse to OO in my hobby programming, its too much hard work.
What do people think to modern basics, such as freeBasic, thinBasic and glBasic? The latter is very cross platform but seems too simple for my liking. The other 2 though I'd dismissed cos no HTML5. But if your saying its not that important, then I'd seriously consider them : a basic with an up-to-date graphics library is great.
Ha! meems is like me. I'm glad I''m not the only one who thinks OOP is overkill most of the time!
"Its easiest to click and play in your browser rather than download , install and play."
I find this is especially true for game jams like Ludum Dare. Good luck placing well there with a game you have to download first. I made a couple of games for game jams in BlitzMax, and would have really liked to make them play on the web so more people would try them.