SyntaxBomb - Indie Coders

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: iWasAdam on November 19, 2020, 11:12:18

Title: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: iWasAdam on November 19, 2020, 11:12:18
Well the results are coming in, but I found this is an entertaining and accurate look at the new chips.
Apple released 3 new systems:
Macbook Pro 13, Macbook Air, & Mac Mini with the same M1 chip
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: c0d3r9 on November 19, 2020, 22:22:34
And who has a donkey in the cellar that spits gold?  :))
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Qube on November 19, 2020, 22:24:53
And who has a donkey in the cellar that spits gold?  :))
I don't have a cellar but I do have a do... Actually, I don't have either, just temptation ;D

Very tempting to get one and see how it all performs :-X - However sensible head has kicked in ( for now ) and will probably wait for the 2nd gen when a lot of the software houses are onboard with it all. The reviews are pretty glowing of it's performance considering it's early days.

Gotta say though, it looks like Apple have / will be knocking it out of the park with the move to their "Apple Silicon" :o 8)
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: iWasAdam on November 26, 2020, 08:33:38
Here is another video. but bear with it until the end:


Okydoke...
 Most of us (here) grew up with Atari VCS and Spectrums and C64 and then slowly moved and worked with the x86 in all its' forms. What I am saying is we were all around at the 'birth' of modern computing. we were there, we saw and we played out part in seeing a complete change from mousetrap to space invaders.

Do you know what I see?

The M1 chip is comparable to the VCS/spectrum/c64. It's going to change things. From here forward the way we think about computer, the way we use them, the way they impact us will change. and FAST.

Think about this for one second:
the new PS5 and XBOX are MASSIVE leaps forward from the previous gens. but at massive power cost, size, etc. What if next year there is a tiny box. that consumes 100th of the power and performs 3x better. 8k display, raytracing for everything and cost $200?

I'm not saying that Apple will fo it. but if we are at the start of something new. then that is what is coming. in the same way as the VCS was overtaken by the 8bit computers back in the day.

Lastly - think about 128bit computing - That would be next, possibly 96bit? but definitely more than the current 64bit. Why do I say that? It's just bits, adding more bits is easy. what you do with them is...

Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Steve Elliott on November 26, 2020, 19:16:49
Yeah I said it before, Apple are innovating again (rather than pissing people off at times).  The 2nd and 3rd generation Apple ARM-based systems should be something else...Intel seem to be slipping to 3rd behind AMD.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: dawlane on November 27, 2020, 04:51:04
Yeah I said it before, Apple are innovating again (rather than pissing people off at times).  The 2nd and 3rd generation Apple ARM-based systems should be something else...Intel seem to be slipping to 3rd behind AMD.
Not to worry. Apple will still be pissing people off as usual in no time at all.

It wouldn't surprise me if both Intel and AMD didn't go under in the next five years, unless they themselves decide to ditch the CISC x86 architecture in favour of a RISC flavour of their own. But for it to work, they need to partner with Microsoft to work out how to implement their version of Rosetta, or it would be another Itanium.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Qube on December 09, 2020, 06:27:01
My faulty mouse accidentally bought a Mac mini M1 512gb  ;D umm, I mean :o

Should sit nicely next to the Intel based Mac mini I grabbed a few months ago \o/

Can’t wait to put it through its paces and best of all it’s guaranteed delivery for 10th of December.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Derron on December 09, 2020, 06:59:18
Wasn't it on sale yesterday? 600 euro instead of 800 ... maybe your Mouse has the nickname "Scrooge" :)


bye
Ron
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Steve Elliott on December 09, 2020, 11:14:02
Quote
My faulty mouse accidentally bought a Mac mini M1 512gb  ;D umm, I mean :o

The force has a strong influence on the weak minded mice lol.  Nice one Mousey/Jedi Qube.   :D
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Xerra on December 09, 2020, 18:42:46
My faulty mouse accidentally bought a Mac mini M1 512gb  ;D umm, I mean :o

Should sit nicely next to the Intel based Mac mini I grabbed a few months ago \o/

Can’t wait to put it through its paces and best of all it’s guaranteed delivery for 10th of December.

I've been meaning to find a way of testing my mouse. Might go to that site and see if mine has the same issue....

Don't need a new Mac.... don't need a new Mac.... But .. but... Shiny !!!!!!!

Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Qube on December 10, 2020, 01:06:31
Quote
Wasn't it on sale yesterday? 600 euro instead of 800 ... maybe your Mouse has the nickname "Scrooge"
I did get a whopping £20 off the RRP :))

Quote
The force has a strong influence on the weak minded mice lol.  Nice one Mousey/Jedi Qube.   :D
I know, this mouse gets me into all sorts of trouble. I must praise replace it one day  ::)

Quote
I've been meaning to find a way of testing my mouse. Might go to that site and see if mine has the same issue....
I would test your mouse too. Worst case scenario is you have a way to test your games on it ;D
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: dawlane on December 10, 2020, 01:30:49
Qube was lucky with his faulty mouse. The button could have stuck and ended up clearing out all of Apple's stock of M1's. And Qube may have got the discount, but Apple will soon find a way to get that money back out of him with interest on top.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Dabz on December 10, 2020, 06:48:12
Quote
I know, this mouse gets me into all sorts of trouble. I must praise replace it one day

Exact same troubles, totally locked up, ended up shuffling it about as you do, wildly pressing buttons, then though and behold, it unlockled itself, cursor everywhere and I inadvertantly bought a 3D Printer from Amazon... I was distraught, who'd and har'd about cancelling the order, but, that seemed a chew, just had to accept it!

Stupid mouse!!! :P

Dabz
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: 3DzForMe on December 11, 2020, 23:52:11
Quote
. that money and you know it'll be obsolete by Easter.     

Yeah.... But then you get to look forward to the new shiny.... That costs a 100 quid more than the last one coz...... Its just soooooo much better!
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Matty on December 12, 2020, 04:05:30
I'm not sure I understand.

The logic behind your joke comment is based in real experience of Apple over more than one decade....so - if it's such a, shall we say, con - then why do we not only keep falling for it but be proud of ourselves for falling for it?
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: dawlane on December 12, 2020, 06:31:30
then why do we not only keep falling for it but be proud of ourselves for falling for it?
Maybe it's down to the what sociologist call the 'Magpie Effect'.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Matty on December 12, 2020, 08:43:25
Interesting.

The magpie effect (desire to accumulate shiny objects) - is that a real thing or merely an excuse sociologists have made up to *almost* pathologise human greed into illness?
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: iWasAdam on December 12, 2020, 08:56:24
more an urban description:
Quote
An overwhelming urge to purchase an item of no practical value and/or out of once price range purely based on its appearance.
Usually the item in question is either glittery or catching the light causing the victim to become entranced by said item.

unfortunately (where the M1 is concerned), it doesn't really work as the product is 'that' good and will only get better. Rumour has it that the 'pro' release next year will be 8 or 16 high performance cores!
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: iWasAdam on December 12, 2020, 12:44:58
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Qube on December 19, 2020, 07:39:38
Mini review time - personal opinion :

I've had the Mac mini M1 ( 8gb / 512gb ssd ) for just over a week now and I have to say Apple have really upped their game. For a first outing with a new architecture they've done a sterling job for such early days. MacOS runs very smoothly and very stable ( not one crash yet ).

They are fast and in real terms I'd have the basic CPU performance around an Intel i7 ( ignoring the speedy hardware encoders from benchmarks ). The GPU is a vast increase in performance over the absolute shite Intel UHD 630 which was in the Mac mini 2018. GPU wise I'd gauge it about 20% below a Radeon Pro 580.

What surprised me the most is the phenomenal job they've done with Rosetta 2 to allow x86 apps. To be honest in most scenarios you wouldn't even know it's an x86 app run via emulation / conversion. However, when you do get native ARM apps you can tell the difference from their x86 counterparts, for example Chrome is a smoother and snappier experience over it's native version.

The M1 also runs super quiet and super cool. I ran a 4000x4000 iray render in Daz3D and it remained cool to the touch and whisper quiet. The same test on my intel Mac mini results in the fan kicking in and feeling toasty warm to the touch.

Side note : Daz3D doesn't work with Big Sur but using Crossover the Windows version runs extremely well.

The downside to all this is that I do need to use some Windows apps, mainly Visual Studio and as things stand it's looking like x86 Windows virtualisation isn't going to happen. Parallels have just released a beta version for the M1 but it's all ARM virtualisation and they state it can't do x86. Also there is no eGPU support which I think is just down to ARM drivers.

It's certainly going to be interesting to see how this all pans out over the next few years before they ditch intel completely.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Derron on December 19, 2020, 08:43:00
@Qube
Think Qemu + some patches might of interest for you (x86 on m1).


bye
Ron
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Qube on December 20, 2020, 07:07:17
@Qube
Think Qemu + some patches might of interest for you (x86 on m1).
I've looked into that and apparently it's very slow. Not really an issue though as my main Mac is Intel based. The M1 is very impressive and no doubt I'll grab a beefed up custom one at some point in the future. I'll still need x86 for writing Windows apps so I'll either RDP into an Intel Mac or end up with a silent mini PC.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Xerra on December 20, 2020, 10:12:33
Can't you use parallels on the M1 Mac mini then?
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Xaron on January 02, 2021, 09:34:00
I once had a Macbook Air which was awesome and survived the last years using MacOS on VMWare but I think it's the time to get a new Air... They're kind of affordable for what they can achieve and I'm tired of pimping my VMWare system to publish iOS games...
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Pakz on January 02, 2021, 11:37:38
The new Mobile AMD cpu's were said to be 20 something percent faster in single core. They should be at that computer event this month. Maybe available in the summer. I stil prefer the Windows system. Apple would need to be emulating every windows game/app before it becomes interesting for me.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Xaron on January 02, 2021, 13:22:33
The new Mobile AMD cpu's were said to be 20 something percent faster in single core. They should be at that computer event this month. Maybe available in the summer. I stil prefer the Windows system. Apple would need to be emulating every windows game/app before it becomes interesting for me.

Well I prefer Windows as well. But having a Ryzen now it makes it somehow impossible to continue with my VMWare approach. And for iOS game publishing this must be done with a Mac.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Dabz on January 02, 2021, 15:40:13
Quote
And for iOS game publishing this must be done with a Mac.

Not so, [technically yes, but], dunno if you seen my little posts about B4x's Hosted Mac Service:-

https://www.b4x.com/b4i.html

I have never tried the game creation features of B4x if I'm honest, but they do exist within its cross platform library:-

https://www.b4x.com/android/forum/threads/igameview-library-for-games.70747/

But it seems to be a go'er, depending on what you want.

But certainly down the line I will be looking at it further when my little app thingy me bob is due a runout on iOs! :)

Dabz
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Xaron on January 02, 2021, 16:16:27
Thanks Dabz: Yeah heard about that but ... but ... I need a reason to buy a Mac!  :P :))
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Xerra on January 02, 2021, 21:22:57
Thanks Dabz: Yeah heard about that but ... but ... I need a reason to buy a Mac!  :P :))

They're brilliant. I wouldn't be without mine.

Good enough?
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Qube on January 03, 2021, 01:58:04
Can't you use parallels on the M1 Mac mini then?
There is a beta of Parallels which is for the M1 but it only does ARM virtualisation and can not use older x86 VM’s or create new x86 VM’s.

Microsoft do an ARM version of Windows which note also has x86 emulation. Apparently it’s a bit slow.

From a personal point of view I need access to a lot of Windows features and apps for programming work and I highly doubt everything I’d need would work 100% flawlessly, for example SQL Server, Exchange,  Visual Studio .Net etc etc. So for me, as things stand right now, I couldn’t use the M1 for everything I need.

Having said that, I do use the M1 Mac mini as my main computer ( great machines ) and I can RDP into a Windows VM on Intel Mac mini networked via Thunderbolt 3 ( not USB 3 )

My guess is that either full x86 emulation will land eventually or the x86 emulation in Windows ARM becomes better and better + of course Microsoft has to release it for users to purchase.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: iWasAdam on January 03, 2021, 06:31:48
Qube have you tried this. On any macos window to resize. press alt first then drag - magic....
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Qube on January 03, 2021, 12:34:12
Qube have you tried this. On any macos window to resize. press alt first then drag - magic....
I know about that one ;D very handy for quickly checking dynamic pages.
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Qube on July 21, 2021, 17:15:03
It's been 7+ months since I bought the Mac Mini M1 and absolutely loving it ;D - I'll reiterate what I said earlier on in this thread that Apple have done a stunning job with not only the M1 but the transition is MacOS and Rosetta 2 to run x86 64bit apps. I thought such a move was going to be a buggy slow nightmare for months to come but from day one it's been very surprising.

I'm sure most have seen all the benchmark guff so I won't go into that except to say the M1 flies along very happily. I was quite shocked how well the GPU ran considering the really awful Intel based GPU's that previous Mac mini's had. Unbelievably it outperforms the desktop based GeForce 1050ti and the AMD RX 560 so it's definitely no slouch. Not as fast as my eGPU Radeon Pro 580 ( bought for my Intel Mac mini as the internal GPU is worse than dire ) but that beast was a stupidly overpriced £600 (https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/HM8Y2B/A/blackmagic-egpu).

Shhh, it's all so quiet. That's the new M1's for you. I've yet to make the fan audible no matter what I've thrown at it, from playing games, messing with Unity and doing hires rendering via Daz3D. I'm kinda geeky when it comes to noise as the quieter the better when doing heaver based tasks. Fan noise slowly building up into a vacuum cleaner loudness just does my head in.

Last week I grabbed a space grey MacBook Air ( M1 ), completely fan-less and stinking performance even with 1 GPU core less and thermal throttling if the SoC get too warm. You don't even notice the throttling, well I haven't to be honest even when trying to make it cry out for help. Awesome little laptop to take on the go which won't let you down.

I've still got to keep my Intel Mac mini as I dual boot that into Windows for coding serious apps. Sure, there's Windows 10 ARM which I can run in parallels on the M1 but it's terrible for x86 apps like Visual Studio which I use a lot. I'm sure it'll be a viable solution one day but not today. Maybe I'll replace it with a silent Windows Mini PC just for coding work, dunno yet.

Going forward I think I'll be grabbing the redesigned Mac mini M1X / M2 when it's released, customise with more memory, bigger SDD and CPU / GPU cores ( if an option ) + stick with that for a good couple of years before even thinking of upgrading.

Overall, very impressed at how the transition is going considering it's early days and finally Apple taking GPU's seriously too. As one final word if anyone is interested, the native M1 version of Unity is great ;D
Title: Re: New Apple M1 chip smokes...
Post by: Pakz on July 21, 2021, 17:40:47
I have been using the ipad pro 2021 with the m1. It performs so much better than the regular ipad in music production apps. The only thing is that when pushed it drains the battery really fast. I do not think it can use it for 2 hours with big music projects. With pixeling I can do an entire day and have battery left.
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal