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General Category => Game Coding Competitions => Topic started by: iWasAdam on July 28, 2020, 07:14:00

Title: thought for next game compo
Post by: iWasAdam on July 28, 2020, 07:14:00
In general the competitions have issues with graphics and different abilities.
One way to deal with this would be to take the approach I found over at youtube.

Everyone has the same source graphics.
(in this case kennys 2d dungeon set)
(https://kenney.nl/content/3-assets/6-micro-roguelike/preview.png)

You are free to modify the graphics, but you must be able to tell where they came from.

You are free to use any resolution, any style, 3d or 3d. But the supplied core graphics must be used as the basis. So it could be a fighting game or shooter (arrows were made from combining bits of the graphics), or maze game or whatever.

This could make for an interesting competition - anyone else have thoughts? Qube?

here's the link
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: blinkok on July 28, 2020, 08:07:20
Actually there is a jam very soon that is almost exactly that
https://itch.io/jam/kenney-jam-2020
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Derron on July 28, 2020, 10:11:14
The kenney jam explicitly states you need to use the original assets. So no "mixing" allowed.

Bye
Ron
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: iWasAdam on July 28, 2020, 10:12:24
And 2 days....

And pick from loads of assets. Not really what I was suggesting
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Matty on July 28, 2020, 10:34:58
I don't mind the idea.

I've done a lot of dungeon style games for the comps so while I'm experienced there a change would be nice.

An alternative might be if one of us volunteered to create 2d sprites on demand as a kind of compulsory team member to be the graphic artist for each entrant....quality ought to be consistent. ..I'm unemployed currently and in lockdown....just an idea....
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Xerra on July 28, 2020, 18:23:51
I'm hopeless at doing graphics so this suits me just fine. Probably limits the kind of game I could write to an extent but I keep telling myself I'm going to do something other than a retro remake at some point.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Scaremonger on July 28, 2020, 20:53:21
Hi all,
How about a competition to create the set of graphics; then we would have something unexpected to use for a game in a later competition?

Si...
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on July 29, 2020, 02:39:24
You are free to modify the graphics, but you must be able to tell where they came from.

You are free to use any resolution, any style, 3d or 3d. But the supplied core graphics must be used as the basis. So it could be a fighting game or shooter (arrows were made from combining bits of the graphics), or maze game or whatever.
I like the idea and could prove interesting :)

Questions :

1.. You are free to modify the graphics, but you must be able to tell where they came from - I assume you are not allowed to redraw them into super AAA versions? ( not that I could ) but could animate them so long as they are the same graphics?, change colours or just use the two versions shown?. I assume changing colours is fine as if you do a 3D game then shadows and stuff are going to effect the colours.

2.. You are free to use any resolution, any style, 3d 2d or 3d - So in affect you have to use the original size graphics but you can scale, rotate and / or use them as a 3D texture?

3.. Can black be classed as transparent if you want? ( probably would have to be )

4.. What about fonts for text and scores?

5.. What about particle effects? would the base have to be one of the supplied or could we use pixels. I guess allowing pixels is open to debate about *how* you use a single pixel as you could have any image and say "it's made up from that one pixel just coloured"

Overall though I think this could be a great idea as we've not done such a thing and best of all we don't have to spend ages drawing graphics :P
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: blinkok on July 29, 2020, 02:57:28
Quote
I assume you are not allowed to redraw them into super AAA versions?
I think as long as you can recognize the origin, this would be really cool. There was a game remake recently where you could flip between the AAA and the 8bit render

They did it with the Alex Kid remake



They even have a "Retro mode" where you can switch back to the old graphics
(http://www.ausretrogamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Alex-Kidd-in-Miracle-World-DX-2.jpg)
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: MikeHart on July 29, 2020, 05:24:21
I think this is a great idea, same artwork.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: iWasAdam on July 29, 2020, 06:14:36
me (personally) I would stick to the same graphics, as reimagining them as AAA sort of breaks the concept. But recoloring, adding animations, etc would be fine (in my books).

Adding fonts scores would be fine too - unless we had a font as part of the core graphics?
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Derron on July 29, 2020, 08:33:05
Most important of all: remixing must be allowed.

What i mean is:
- only draw a part of sprite1 and draw another part of sprite2 below (eg to replace "heads")
- or more complex: take the handle of the sword and place it on the axe so you got a "handled axe" (for whatever reason)

That way you could eg have more "heart images" than just empty, half and full. Or you could have water with the stone boundaries... or such stuff.

Why? as everything else I would surely feel "too restricted" by the given assets. I might feel uncomfortable using stuff absolutely not suiting to what I "imaginate"


Another important stuff:
- mirroring, pixel perfect scaling, pre-calculated rotation (if the engine cannot do "pixel perfect" rotation)
- tinting ?
- alpha allowed (fading out of a ghost creature or so)
- if extra animation was allowed (like Qube suggested) then this almost answers the question of "mixing sprites"
- pre-created "mixes" of sprites? One could of course do the hard "draw subimage of sprite1 on sprite2" each time - or they pre-create the mix (but then harder to "explain" to others that we really did not create "new pixels")


The more options we get, the less "similar" stuff will look - and of course this means the basic idea of "use the same gfx" is a bit shallowed then. Nonetheless it means "all start with the same" (but we could say that if all start "without gfx").


bye
Ron
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: iWasAdam on July 29, 2020, 08:59:37
yep - mixing, editing, coloring of graphics all allowed  :-*

taking the base design and completely reimagining them as AAA version would not be allowed

using a single sprite and modifying it to make animation, other sprites is also fine. Just as long as the game can be traced back to the source :)
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Xerra on July 29, 2020, 13:07:34
Adding fonts scores would be fine too - unless we had a font as part of the core graphics?

Please let there be a default sprite font that we need to use. Saves a lot of faffing around trying to find something suitable for text and doing layout stuff.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: iWasAdam on July 30, 2020, 12:29:32
Quote
Please let there be a default sprite font that we need to use.
oo, I would have thought that was being covered too...  :P
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 01, 2020, 08:14:42
New game coding competition will be posted tonight \o/
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: iWasAdam on August 01, 2020, 08:58:58
I've got my paint brush ready... Moist is my word of the day...  8)
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Derron on August 01, 2020, 11:55:32
Uhm ... are we settling to this dungeon sprite set? Aren't there others? Asking as others might be more interested in less "fantasy" (maybe scifi ... or such stuff).

And how to tackle "HUD" (maybe energy bars, or decoration elements), title screens, maybe menu/gui ... ?
Not all are fancy "text menu"-enjoyers.

Maybe give them another "spriteset"?


All in all: if there is a "dungeon spriteset" and a similar "scifi/.../ spriteset" maybe at least let people choose amongst them? Or are you prefering the "one for all ... all for one spriteset" approach?

bye
Ron
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 01, 2020, 12:08:39
Having more than one sprite set kinda defeats the point of the competition in my eyes.  Maybe we could have a quick vote on 2 or 3 options and go with that one?
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: STEVIE G on August 01, 2020, 14:20:35
That (pretty naff) sprite sheet kind of limits your options to some sort of topdown dungeon crawler.  I guess the point is to think outside the box though so interested to see what Qube comes up with later.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: MikeHart on August 01, 2020, 21:27:22
That (pretty naff) sprite sheet kind of limits your options to some sort of topdown dungeon crawler.  I guess the point is to think outside the box though so interested to see what Qube comes up with later.
Or some 2D in 3D stuff.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 02, 2020, 03:48:04
Eeek, no time tonight to get this sorted, sorry sorry :-[ - Will definitely get it up tonight <<---- no jokes please :P

That (pretty naff) sprite sheet kind of limits your options to some sort of topdown dungeon crawler.  I guess the point is to think outside the box though so interested to see what Qube comes up with later.
Never fear, there will be plenty scope available. One sprite sheet ( plus all the images individually too ), one font and no excuses ;D
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Derron on August 03, 2020, 08:14:12
> Will definitely get it up tonight <<---- no jokes please

Seems you had issues getting it up last night ;D


bye
Ron
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 04, 2020, 01:15:06
> Will definitely get it up tonight <<---- no jokes please

Seems you had issues getting it up last night ;D
Lol, I have a good excuse though... I was choosing a new custom Mac Mini from Apple and grabbing a monitor to go with it as I'm replacing my iMac ;D
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 04, 2020, 09:12:37
lol good excuse, great to get new tech.  So are you using Apple's trade-in service then?
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 04, 2020, 19:43:22
lol good excuse, great to get new tech.  So are you using Apple's trade-in service then?
Nah, will either take it to Cex for a quick sale or shove it in the loft until all the corno crap is over and sell it on Gumtree.

Yes, great to get new tech. Monitor arrives tomorrow \o/ Custom Mac mini around the 13th of Aug \o/ and then I'll grab an Apple Silicon Mac mini as a Christmas present for myself ;D
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 04, 2020, 19:47:20
Good plan.  ;D
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: iWasAdam on August 06, 2020, 07:31:37
What monitor did you get?

Pssssttt.... what happened to the compo?
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 06, 2020, 08:12:48
What monitor did you get?

Pssssttt.... what happened to the compo?
In the end I went for this one (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07XLDLZPF) as it’s resolution is decent, has a display port & two HDMI ports ( DP for Mac & HDMI for raspberry pi ). It also supports 50hz for smooth scrolling in retro systems like the Amiga and C64. Lastly it goes up to 144hz for smooth OS movement.

Game comp... sorry for the delay which is due to current workload. I’m aiming to get the comp up soon within the next 48hrs.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: iWasAdam on August 06, 2020, 08:44:17
nice monitor I was looking / drooling over this one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-Ultrawide-34WL75C-B-34-Inch-Monitor/dp/B07YCJDY6N/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=widescreen%2Bcurved%2Bmonitor&qid=1596699494&s=computers&sr=1-3&th=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-Ultrawide-34WL75C-B-34-Inch-Monitor/dp/B07YCJDY6N/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=widescreen%2Bcurved%2Bmonitor&qid=1596699494&s=computers&sr=1-3&th=1)
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 07, 2020, 07:59:49
I looked at that monitor too but as far as I could tell it only goes up to 60hz?. I wanted a decent resolution ( 2560 x 1440 ) with a high refresh for a silky smooth OS experience + I can run Amiga emulation @ 100hz for that extra smooth movement thanks to doubling up on the original PAL 50hz
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Derron on August 11, 2020, 07:06:57
Game comp... sorry for the delay which is due to current workload. I’m aiming to get the comp up soon within the next 48hrs.

*poking with a stick*
Clocks go different around the world :)


No worries, temperatures allow a delay of some days without much trouble.


bye
Ron
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 11, 2020, 11:22:24
My time estimates routine is seriously bugged and churns out all sorts of wacky dates. Will fix it but things have been super busy :(

New estimate.... Soon soon ;D
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: blinkok on August 11, 2020, 12:36:40
Quote
My time estimates routine is seriously bugged and churns out all sorts of wacky dates
I think it's right on target for a AAA game. ;-)
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 12, 2020, 16:32:40
Quote
My time estimates routine is seriously bugged and churns out all sorts of wacky dates
I think it's right on target for a AAA game. ;-)
Very true :)) but I will sort it soon.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 15, 2020, 14:03:45
Quote
Quote from: iWasAdam on August 06, 2020, 07:31:37 AM

What monitor did you get?

In the end I went for this one as it’s resolution is decent, has a display port & two HDMI ports ( DP for Mac & HDMI for raspberry pi ). It also supports 50hz for smooth scrolling in retro systems like the Amiga and C64. Lastly it goes up to 144hz for smooth OS movement.

How did you know before buying it supported 50hz refresh, it doesn't give that information on the link you supplied?  I would maybe go for the 24 inch version for retro stuff.  It's annoying refresh rate information only seems to be listed on TV's, but not monitors.  I have an Acer Monitor that I didn't know it could switch to 50hz until I went into the graphics driver options (you cannot change it from the monitor buttons).  But Nvidia graphics driver settings for Windows, I'm not sure what refresh rate a Spectrum Next or C64 would be set to if I just plugged them in, default 60hz?  Plus I have 2 Raspberry pi's running at a monitor rate of 60hz, could they run at 50hz too?  Again no way of changing through monitor buttons.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 15, 2020, 18:35:37
I read the online manual which list the supported resolutions and refresh rates ;D - I also use SwitchResX where you can set whatever the monitor supports in a quick drop down menu so no diving into settings each time.

I know with the C64 maxi you can set it to PAL / NTSC and it’d be stupid if the Speccy Next doesn’t do 50hz as it was most popular in the UK.

Raspberry pi’s can run at 50hz too and there is a setting in the retropie configuration to set that.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 15, 2020, 18:44:20
Quote
I read the online manual which list the supported resolutions and refresh rates ;D - I also use SwitchResX where you can set whatever the monitor supports in a quick drop down menu so no diving into settings each time.

You read the online manual, how sneaky haha (thanks)  :))  And you can set it from the monitor, or you need to use SwitchResX?

Quote
I know with the C64 maxi you can set it to PAL / NTSC and it’d be stupid if the Speccy Next doesn’t do 50hz as it was most popular in the UK.

Well the C64 Maxi is a super friendly emulator, not a hardware FPGA recreation.  And yes the Speccy does 50/60hz but I'm talking about monitors.

Quote
Raspberry pi’s can run at 50hz too and there is a setting in the retropie configuration to set that.

I know, doesn't mean the monitor can support it though lol.  :P
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 16, 2020, 00:40:10
On the monitor I have you can’t set the Hz manually but MacOS detects the resolutions and Hz available ( mostly ) and you set it there. The only one I had to add via SwitchResX was 2560x1440 @ 50hz but I find that 100hz is smoother with fast motion on PAL based systems like C64, Amiga etc. I would say Speccy but it wasn’t known for its silky smooth scrolling :P

I’d be surprised if all multi Hz monitors didn’t support 50hz with only the snobby posh ones stuck on 60hz only.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 16, 2020, 00:43:43
Quote
I would say Speccy but it wasn’t known for its silky smooth scrolling :P

Then you haven't run the Spectrum Next demos I posted lol.   :P
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 16, 2020, 05:36:36
Quote
I would say Speccy but it wasn’t known for its silky smooth scrolling :P

Then you haven't run the Spectrum Next demos I posted lol.   :P
I was talking about the original Speccy :))
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Steve Elliott on August 16, 2020, 09:03:58
I know lol.
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 16, 2020, 20:33:48
Next game comp goes up tonight ( sometime ). I’ll make sure nothing gets in the way this time :))
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: STEVIE G on August 16, 2020, 22:09:26
Next game comp goes up tonight ( sometime ). I’ll make sure nothing gets in the way this time :))

We don't believe you!  ;)
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Xerra on August 17, 2020, 00:51:04
Especially as it's gone midnight :-)
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 17, 2020, 01:01:19
Lol, such confidence! it's so inspiring, cheers guys :P - Yes, it will be up before I go to sleep ( I can stay awake for days ) :))
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Xerra on August 17, 2020, 06:45:44
Bet you fell asleep anyway, considering it's almost 7am :-)
Title: Re: thought for next game compo
Post by: Qube on August 17, 2020, 09:12:23
Bet you fell asleep anyway, considering it's almost 7am :-)
Nope, still awake and doing the comp now ;D
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