Hi
I would like to Challenge all Programmers using any Programming language,to try and beat my Connect 4 program below...
THEARBCONNECT4V8X8PROGRAM {The Strongest Program in the World!} A.R.B :)
http://www.petesqbsite.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14879
I'm guessing modesty isn't one of your strong points judging by how you describe your connect four program on the forums you've linked to. Not to mention posting this thread twice :)
I'll tell you what. Put some kind of at least basic graphics display on your connect four game, rather than a hard to decipher console window text character output and maybe you'll get some more interest. Connect four is circles on a 8 * 8 playing field. it's not loads of text chars and log files.
Also maybe refer to the classic 80's film war-games for how to basically see Connect 4 as a pointless game when you get two reasonably skilled players. It's just noughts and crosses with a bigger playing field and red/yellow tokens.
Quote.Also maybe refer to the classic 80's film war-games for how to basically see Connect 4 as a pointless game when you get two reasonably skilled players. It's just noughts and crosses with a bigger playing field and red/yellow tokens.
The fun part was the pastime with your siblings.... Happy Dayz.
+1 for Xerras feedback. I was a connect 4 fan back in the day.....
Since Connect 4 is solved, and is a win for the first player, presumably anything approaching a "strongest player in the world" will draw 5-all in your contest?
Arguably more interesting is to make an attractive version for humans to play against - perhaps deliberately making it sometimes beatable (for example, by playing first in an outer column, or by limiting it's look-ahead, and forbidding lookup tables)?
Best wishes,
D
Just make it interesting by having 2-3 extras for each player.
- bomb which explodes 3x3 grids
- some diagonally thrown spears destroying \ / ...
- some horizontal and vertical destroyers (-- and | )
- collapse the "coins" afterwards - potentially leading to a "4 in a row"
- if both players then have a "4 in a row" at the same time, "destroy"/eliminate both's "4 in a row" coins without a "winner". If there is more "4 in a row" for one of the players in a "collapse", this one wins.
This way it becomes like a match-4 :-)
bye
Ron
Quote from: Xerra on October 16, 2021, 22:44:17
I'm guessing modesty isn't one of your strong points judging by how you describe your connect four program on the forums you've linked to. Not to mention posting this thread twice :)
I'll tell you what. Put some kind of at least basic graphics display on your connect four game, rather than a hard to decipher console window text character output and maybe you'll get some more interest. Connect four is circles on a 8 * 8 playing field. it's not loads of text chars and log files.
Also maybe refer to the classic 80's film war-games for how to basically see Connect 4 as a pointless game when you get two reasonably skilled players. It's just noughts and crosses with a bigger playing field and red/yellow tokens.
It always amazes me how people can read something quick ? and make so many mistakes concerning what they read ? :(
First of all modesty has nothing to do with a programmers ability ?
Second I have only post once each of my two types of Challenges! (take a deeper look they are different!) ?
Thirdly the Challenge is about the strength of play of the programs and nothing to do with fancy Graphics etc. if you want to play those type of games ? then get a Playstation :( ?
Fourthly another mistake by you is in the film WarGames (1983) is about how pointless it is to play Tic-Tac-Toe because it's a Draw! Connect 4 on an 8x8 board is a much different game! so show me a normal program running on a home PC that can play the game perfectly like Tic-Tac-Toe and I for one will be amazed! there is a hint that it has been solved ? but that was if it's true played under perfect conditions using a lab Mini Super Computer,with a vast opening book,put in by Humans (so it's kind of cheating!) This Challenge is for as I said a Normal size program people can download and run on their own Normal PC!
A.R.B :)
Below is the Wargames link...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7qOV8xonfY
8 x 8 solved for player 2?
https://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/forum/topic2.jsp?forum=80&topic=77
(I found a link to playing any board size by math guy at Berkeley but it was not working, hmm the link or the theory? Have yet to find solid link to 8x8 Solution except that link above. ARB did you litter at that forum too, LOL)
My theory that if you played "perfectly" it would end in a tie (like Tic Tac Toe) appears to be wrong.
Yet, as I say haven't found solid link.
PS the guy who originally put the game out as 7 X 6 board already knew there had to be a winner in a "perfect" game because the board is not symmetric.
Quote from: bplus on October 17, 2021, 15:49:25
8 x 8 solved for player 2?
https://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/forum/topic2.jsp?forum=80&topic=77
(I found a link to playing any board size by math guy at Berkeley but it was not working, hmm the link or the theory? Have yet to find solid link to 8x8 Solution except that link above. ARB did you litter at that forum too, LOL)
My theory that if you played "perfectly" it would end in a tie (like Tic Tac Toe) appears to be wrong.
Yet, as I say haven't found solid link.
PS the guy who originally put the game out as 7 X 6 board already knew there had to be a winner in a "perfect" game because the board is not symmetric.
Hi bplus
Yes it seems like all talk to me about a solution to the 8x8 version of Connect 4,as no one has post a working version of a program that can solve it ?
By the way to show just how complicated it is,I will be posting my 3rd update to the AI for my program after a lot of work trying to solve it! look out for version 20/10/2021 it will be my final Challenge version for 2021,if no one can beat it in a 10 game match during 2021,then my program will go down in History as being the best for that year! :)
Ha well as you (@ARB) already proved my AI is fallible, thus might be fun for humans to play, at least until they find the pattern of weakness and get tired of exploiting. Sorry not getting back to you at Steve's forum but dang ProBoards, mixed up passwords, I did visit 3 and now I am down to one. Too bad you didn't visit 3 years earlier when I was building my AI for Connect 4 for 8x8 boards.
I do like Derron's game variation suggestions, one reminded me of old game Click-O-Mania, I think was the name. I had to smile imaging mixing those 2 games together.
Hi Guys,
Yes, I missed the significance of the 8x8! :-[ I was only thinking about the standard 7x6. It's not clear that's solved for 8x8, though bplus's post is suggestive - albeit only with a big opening book.
Best wishes,
D
This link:
https://tromp.github.io/c4/c4.html
suggests he has proven 8x8 to be a player 2 win with optimal play, but I can't see a link to the proof...
Quote from: DaiHard on October 18, 2021, 09:38:22
This link:
https://tromp.github.io/c4/c4.html
suggests he has proven 8x8 to be a player 2 win with optimal play, but I can't see a link to the proof...
Yes! DaiHard ? :( all a mystery and even worse no one has seen a so called Solved Connect 4 Version (8x8) working program ???
A.R.B :)
Quote from: bplus on October 17, 2021, 18:48:45
Ha well as you (@ARB) already proved my AI is fallible, thus might be fun for humans to play, at least until they find the pattern of weakness and get tired of exploiting. Sorry not getting back to you at Steve's forum but dang ProBoards, mixed up passwords, I did visit 3 and now I am down to one. Too bad you didn't visit 3 years earlier when I was building my AI for Connect 4 for 8x8 boards.
I do like Derron's game variation suggestions, one reminded me of old game Click-O-Mania, I think was the name. I had to smile imaging mixing those 2 games together.
I think I understand what you are saying bplus ? can you not reset your passwords via email with ProBoards ?
By the way your Connect 4 AI is excellent it was only my programs learning ability which enabled me to find winning ways! :)
And for anyone who thinks they can play well ? below is bplus's program download...
https://www.qb64.org/forum/index.php?topic=3365.0
Below are some Screen shots of my Connect 4 playing a game with the Move scores output file...
Quote from: DaiHard on October 18, 2021, 09:38:22
This link:
https://tromp.github.io/c4/c4.html
suggests he has proven 8x8 to be a player 2 win with optimal play, but I can't see a link to the proof...
@DaiHard Thanks for the link! I think I saw something similar in the past and did not bookmark.
I just tried the link to the proofs there and surprise! Once again the proof is no longer available but "maybe we can Help" and they show a screen with a bunch of price tags, yeah a sucker is born every second.
So I don't know, is it possible to copyright the proof and charge people to see it, say at games forums or is the proof still out there waiting to be properly discovered?
This is turning into a sort of game, looking for solid proof of an 8 x 8 solution, the rumors and legends and talk are certainly out there but show me the proof! :)
ARB posted a link to my very average AI game for Connect 4 8X8 board. On the off chance someone from here actually is interested, I will leave a zip with compiled program for Windows and source at top of the thread there, ASAP.
https://www.qb64.org/forum/index.php?topic=3365.0
(OK done, only 286 LOC! .exe compiled for Windows)
Again ARB's program has beat the AI (so he claims with screen shots at Steve's forum and so too some QB64 forum members), I'd like to see his source code for proof but he is very closed handed with it so... there you go another difficulty in the search for truth ;-)) It's true if you have something really good why not keep it secret? On the other hand, con men act the same way!
Quote from: bplus on October 18, 2021, 16:28:54
Quote from: DaiHard on October 18, 2021, 09:38:22
This link:
https://tromp.github.io/c4/c4.html
suggests he has proven 8x8 to be a player 2 win with optimal play, but I can't see a link to the proof...
Again ARB's program has beat the AI (so he claims with screen shots at Steve's forum and so too some QB64 forum members), I'd like to see his source code for proof but he is very closed handed with it so... there you go another difficulty in the search for truth ;-)) It's true if you have something really good why not keep it secret? On the other hand, con men act the same way!
Hope you don't mind me saying bplus...you made your program so that it's possible to play the games again move by move to see if your program actually loses or wins a game! and as I am sure you have seen all the games I have posted with my program playing yours,shows mine winning! and this can also be reconstructed by downloading my program and playing them against each other as more proof! so their is nothing hidden or underhand about the games!
As far as me keeping my code hidden then yes! I keep it secret as you say so that every tom dick and harry who cannot even program can't just make a clone and try to beat my program! con men might try similar things ? but in my case you have enough proof to say the games played are genuine!
By the way I never got an answer about your log in problems with ProBoards at Steve's forum or was that just a delay! ?
As far as I know it's always possible to get a password via email or is that just another secret mystery! ? :)
This is the solver for the classic 6x7 Connect 4:
https://connect4.gamesolver.org/en/ (https://connect4.gamesolver.org/en/)
Quote
By the way I never got an answer about your log in problems with ProBoards at Steve's forum or was that just a delay! ?
Long story short: Steve has closed to new members, dead for years anyway, registered email may be old, I am a little bit lazy :) Like I said @ARB wish you were there about
3 1+ years ago before TSHTF.
@angros47 Find that for a 8x8 board (and I will still probably want to see source (in Basic)) but it would be a great find!
I don't know, solving this can't be much harder than running permutations on Sudoku to solve it, can it?
Oh this might be it!
https://github.com/tromp/fhourstones88/commit/8378b3256e9dcb79d90b856820cbcc7cef31e66f
Linked from @DaiHard link posted earlier, thanks again!
The A.R.B Connect 4 (8x8) Computer Program Challenge 2021
Check out the latest final Challenge 2021 version of my program and message version 20102021 below...
Note! this version has a New! option Match mode (Normal) and Risky mode (Risky :) )
The idea behind the Risky mode is for... if an unbelievable situation arises :) in a 10 game match,and my program is losing ? then I will switch to Risky mode because the program has nothing to lose! and maybe in a Draw situation at 6 / 6 as I would rather try to Win than share the 2021 title :)
Risky mode will play the unusual first move lines starting at A1,B1,C1 and F1,G1,H1 the programs AI has a good chance of winning with the built in AI ?
http://www.petesqbsite.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14879
A.R.B :)
The 2022 update of my THEARBCONNECT4V8X8PROGRAM22022022 is now available at the link below...
http://www.petesqbsite.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14879
As well as the AI improvements there are some other program improvements for easier game play and analysis,the first is the last move & number are now shown which makes it easier to follow the game,and the second is along with the external saved LASTGAMESSAVED.TXT there is now a file called LASTBOARDSSAVED.TXT which shows the game played move by move on the board,these are shown in the Screenshot images next posts below.
A.R.B :)
THEARBCONNECT4V8X8PROGRAM17072022
For this version it has a New! AI Innovation called Risky+ "For when your opponent is just too damn logical" or a better player
http://www.petesqbsite.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14879