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July 26, 2021, 14:23:25

Author Topic: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC  (Read 697 times)

Offline Midimaster

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Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« on: July 02, 2021, 13:47:17 »
Maybe this helps somebody....

If you build a App on BlitzMAX for MAc OsX BigSur and you are not listed as a registered Developer (99,oo$) your app will not start on the user's computer.

But there is a trick:

After downloading your app the user will find it in his DOWNLOAD folder.

Now hold down CRTL-Key and click on the app.
A dialog will appear.
Now hold down again the CRTL-Key and click at OPEN
Another dialog will appear
Now click at OPEN

This will open the app and change it's state from "unknown" to "secure".
This means that from now on the app can be started normal as any other app on the mac.
See my current project on PlayStore: 20Tracks-Audio-Player https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=midimaster.twentytrackd

Offline Midimaster

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Testing Start on a new MAC?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2021, 07:40:54 »
I only have 2 users with new MACs who report problems in starting one of my apps. One is a female teacher without much computer skills, one is a 85 year old man. I build an update of the app for them and it runs perfect on my new MAC.

I asked both to test this new version.

But now the female teacher still reports, that the app gives an error report. Something like (translated) "Upps ...this file not longer exists...".  I'm a little helpless because my version runs perfect. Now I would like to hear a second opinion from somebody with more skills.

Can somebody of the community please make a short test with the app? You only have to download the app and follow the procedure in post #1. Then the app starts. Answer the licence question with "Cancel" and then wait 2-3 seconds until you can click on "Continue". That's all. Does the app crash now? Deeper tests are not necessary for the moment.

It needs to be a MAC from 2018 and later. Here is the download file (5MB):
http://www.midimaster.de/download/AurisOsxBigSur.zip


See my current project on PlayStore: 20Tracks-Audio-Player https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=midimaster.twentytrackd

Offline MikeHart

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2021, 07:57:08 »
Why does the machine has to be from 2018 and later?

Offline Midimaster

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2021, 08:28:04 »
It has to be a "64bit-only"-MAC. because only users of this models report problems. Of course you can also test it on older version if you like.
See my current project on PlayStore: 20Tracks-Audio-Player https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=midimaster.twentytrackd

Offline Midimaster

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2021, 07:08:20 »
Now a user with a 2020 MAC reports, that my way descriped in post #1 does not work on his computer.

My workaround was:
  • download the app
  • open in  finder:"downloads"
  • hold CTRL then click the app once
  • hold CTRL again, then click open
Now on my MAC (2018) appears a menu where I have three options. One of them is "Open". When I select this the app is accepted forever.

The user reports that on his MAC (2020) in this last step he only has two options: "Cancel" and "Move-To-Bin".

Can somebody with a MAC younger than 2019 please verifiy and confirm this behavior? I cannot believe it!


#UPDATE#

Now I found a hack for enabling all software from all sources:

 1. You open the app TERMINAL in your MAC

 2. Then you enter:

Code: [Select]
sudo spctl --master-disable
 3. Then you press ENTER

 4. Then you enter your password (characters will not be repeated in the console)

 5. Then you press ENTER


Now will have three entries in the security settings of your MAC

Quote
Alow apps downloaded from:
 - App Store
 - App Store and identified developers
 - Anywhere


From now on you can switch between these three options depending on the software you want to install
« Last Edit: July 04, 2021, 07:39:57 by Midimaster »
See my current project on PlayStore: 20Tracks-Audio-Player https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=midimaster.twentytrackd

Offline Qube

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2021, 07:47:13 »
Wow, that's pretty excessive to ask users to do that :o - Its like saying "Here is my app but you'll have to disable its security so anything can run"

It's pretty simple to open your none signed app :

Hold down the option key > right mouse click on the app > select Open from the context menu and then select Open again the popup window. The app will then be marked as OK to open on your Mac.

Do NOT advise your customers to unknowingly disable their Mac's security.

Mac mini ( 2018 / 2020 ), 3 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, 16 GB 2667 MHz DDR4, 1TB NVMe, eGPU Radeon Pro 580 8 GB, LG Ultragear 27GL83A-B 27 Inch
Mac mini (2020 ), M1 SoC, 8 GB LPDDR4, 512GB NVMe 
Commodore VIC-20, 1.1Mhz MOS 6502 CPU, 5KB RAM, VIC ( 6560 ) GPU

Until the next time.

Offline Midimaster

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2021, 09:07:58 »
Quote
Hold down the option key > right mouse click on the app > select Open from the context menu and then select Open again the popup window. The app will then be marked as OK to open on your Mac.

Tested on MAc 2020?
See my current project on PlayStore: 20Tracks-Audio-Player https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=midimaster.twentytrackd

Online Steve Elliott

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2021, 09:17:02 »
Quote
Do NOT advise your customers to unknowingly disable their Mac's security.

Quite right.

Quote
Tested on MAc 2020?

Something to be suggested, if it works or not is irrelevant because disabling your customer's security is a bad idea and could get you in trouble if the user gets hacked.

Pay and make an official build.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2021, 09:18:56 by Steve Elliott »
Windows 10 64-bit, 16Gb RAM, Intel i5 3.2 GHz, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb)
MacOS Big Sur 64-bit, 8Gb RAM, Intel i5 2.3 Ghz, Intel Iris Plus Graphics 640 1536 MB
Linux Mint 19.3 64-bit, 16Gb RAM, Intel i5 3.2 GHz, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb)
Raspberry Pi 400, Pi4, BBC B, C64, ZX Spectrum

Offline iWasAdam

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2021, 12:34:49 »
As above - Very loud - NOOOOOOOOO

Offline Qube

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2021, 14:39:13 »
Tested on MAc 2020?
Tested on : Mac mini 2012 / Mac mini 2018/2020 ( intel ) and Mac mini 2020 ( M1 ) - It doesn't matter the model but the OS version since Apple increased the system security.

Doing the "Hold down the option key > right mouse click on the app > select Open from the context menu and then select Open again in the popup window." is the correct method a user has so should they want to open that app they can at their own risk. Sometimes you may need to use the "xattr -cr /path/to/application.app" command if an app reports it's damaged but you know it isn't.

Regardless, never ever ask a user to disable system security and put THEIR system at risk. Instead provide an instructions text file detailing what they can do to run YOUR app and why they need to do that and then it's THEIR choice if they want to go ahead.
Mac mini ( 2018 / 2020 ), 3 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, 16 GB 2667 MHz DDR4, 1TB NVMe, eGPU Radeon Pro 580 8 GB, LG Ultragear 27GL83A-B 27 Inch
Mac mini (2020 ), M1 SoC, 8 GB LPDDR4, 512GB NVMe 
Commodore VIC-20, 1.1Mhz MOS 6502 CPU, 5KB RAM, VIC ( 6560 ) GPU

Until the next time.

Offline Midimaster

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2021, 08:23:43 »
At the Hotline I first suggested exact what Qube writes:
Quote
...Doing the "Hold down the option key > right mouse click on the app > select Open from the context menu and then select Open again in the popup window." is the correct method a user has...

But the users reported, that this does not work. So I did some resarch on Apple's support pages. And there is a new approach:
download the app
1. open in  finder:"downloads"
2. hold CTRL then click the app once
3. hold CTRL again, then click open

It looks like instead of OPTION KEY now Apple now uses CTRL KEY for this:

Apple Support:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202491
Quote
...  If you're prompted to open the app in Finder and you're sure you want to open it despite the warning, you can control-click the app, choose Open from the menu, and then click Open in the dialog that appears. Enter your admin name and password to open the app. 

This worked on my 2018 MAC MINI, but I needed an additional setting in the security settings: Change...
"allow downloads from app store"
...to...
"allow downloads from appstore and identiefied developers"

With this approach I had a new phone call with the user. We tried 1 hour together, but had no change to start the app on his computer.

Then I found the new support text with the "sudo..." hack , which enables to add a third feature "open from Anywhere" to the security menu. This DOES NOT mean remove all the security features but enables users to switch for a short moment to this option then start the app once, then close the feature immediately again back to "allow downloads from app store". This third option was standard on all mac Osx until 2014 and it is still  Part of the OsX, but not visible.

QUBE's Test on MAC 2020

For me it sounds strange that QUBE was able to start my app...
http://www.midimaster.de/download/AurisOsxBigSur.zip
... with the old approach on a MAC 2020. So thank you for reporting me this. I will continue investigating, why this does not work on our MACs. Are there different MAC's?

Did somebody else try to start my app on a new MAC. help is still welcome!!!



See my current project on PlayStore: 20Tracks-Audio-Player https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=midimaster.twentytrackd

Offline Qube

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2021, 10:14:36 »
It is the control key and not the option key. Hold Control > Right mouse click > Select Open
Mac mini ( 2018 / 2020 ), 3 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, 16 GB 2667 MHz DDR4, 1TB NVMe, eGPU Radeon Pro 580 8 GB, LG Ultragear 27GL83A-B 27 Inch
Mac mini (2020 ), M1 SoC, 8 GB LPDDR4, 512GB NVMe 
Commodore VIC-20, 1.1Mhz MOS 6502 CPU, 5KB RAM, VIC ( 6560 ) GPU

Until the next time.

Online Steve Elliott

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2021, 11:01:51 »
No it's the 'Command' Key and right click open.  But the app does not function correctly, the background window flashes multi-coloured garbage, there's a menu that takes user information and doesn't seem to progress and a small menu that doesn't function either...But I was able to run it easily without turning off security globally.

I have a 2017 MacBook Pro.
Windows 10 64-bit, 16Gb RAM, Intel i5 3.2 GHz, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb)
MacOS Big Sur 64-bit, 8Gb RAM, Intel i5 2.3 Ghz, Intel Iris Plus Graphics 640 1536 MB
Linux Mint 19.3 64-bit, 16Gb RAM, Intel i5 3.2 GHz, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb)
Raspberry Pi 400, Pi4, BBC B, C64, ZX Spectrum

Offline Midimaster

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2021, 12:14:50 »
..  But the app does not function correctly, the background window flashes multi-coloured garbage, there's a menu that takes user information and doesn't seem to progress and a small menu that doesn't function either...But I was able to run it easily without turning off security globally. I have a 2017 MacBook Pro....

Thank you for this detailed report. I did convert the old code to BlitzMax NG and then transfered it to a MAC MINI 2018 with OsX BigSur (11.4) with an XCode 12.5.1. I did no changes at security* and created no security exceptions for AURIS on this MAC. Here I compiled it with BlitzMax NG and it runs perfect on my machine.

*)What do you exactly mean with "...turning off security globally..."?

Do you have any ideas, what could be the reason for the bugs?


Quote
...there's a menu that takes user information and doesn't seem to progress....
this should enable to enter the licence key, but it should have a "Cancel"-button to continue without key.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 12:17:08 by Midimaster »
See my current project on PlayStore: 20Tracks-Audio-Player https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=midimaster.twentytrackd

Online Steve Elliott

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Re: Installing a BlitzMax App on user MAC
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2021, 13:08:00 »
Quote
*)What do you exactly mean with "...turning off security globally..."?

You seemed to be suggesting a hack to get your app to run, followed by Qube, Adam and myself telling you not to suggest this to users.  Just press the command key, right click on the warning and press open is all that is required.

Quote
Do you have any ideas, what could be the reason for the bugs?

Quote
I did convert the old code to BlitzMax NG.

Maybe that?  Perhaps the NG guys could point out possible differences you are not aware of.
Windows 10 64-bit, 16Gb RAM, Intel i5 3.2 GHz, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb)
MacOS Big Sur 64-bit, 8Gb RAM, Intel i5 2.3 Ghz, Intel Iris Plus Graphics 640 1536 MB
Linux Mint 19.3 64-bit, 16Gb RAM, Intel i5 3.2 GHz, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 (2Gb)
Raspberry Pi 400, Pi4, BBC B, C64, ZX Spectrum

 

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